Zone1 Grace and Works

[surada]

Jesus, that we had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.

Isaiah 7 is about Hezekiah not Jesus.

 

[onefour1]

Jesus, that we had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.

Not sure who "we" is that we had accepted as Mormons is. Are you including yourself? You may not believe that Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible but we in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints most certainly do believe they are one and the same. There is absolutely no evidence in the Bible that Jesus and God the Father are the same being. Jesus often prayed unto the Father and before ascending to heaven taught that He would have to go unto the Father. Why would Jesus have to pray to himself? Why would he need to go unto the Father if he were the Father? Makes no sense. Jesus always speaks of the Father as a separate and distinct being. Those who created the idea of the Father and the Son being the same being were completely uninspired and can't understand that someone who sits on the right hand of God is not the same being as God. They have made up some convoluted idea that they are separate persons but the same being. To me that is nothing but a bunch of hogwash.

Did Lucifer fall from heaven? What kind of being was Lucifer before he fell from heaven? We believe that Lucifer was a Son of the Morning before he fell from heaven (Isa. 14:12). Only after he fell from heaven through rebellion was he cast out of heaven into the earth. He was one of the many spirit children of God who rebelled against God and also fought against God in the war in heaven (see Revelation 12).

Lucifer​

• See also Antichrist; Destroyer; Devil; Hell; Sons of Perdition

The name means the “Shining One” or “Lightbearer.” He is also known as the Son of the Morning. Lucifer was a spirit son of Heavenly Father and led the rebellion in the premortal life. The name Lucifer appears only once in the Bible (Isa. 14:12). Latter-day revelation gives more detail on Lucifer’s fall (D&C 76:25–29).

• Lucifer fell in the premortal existence, Isa. 14:12 (Luke 10:18; 2 Ne. 24:12).
• After his fall he became Satan and the devil, D&C 76:25–29 (Moses 4:1–4).

Jesus was God the Father's firstborn spirit child and became part of the godhead before the world was. As a member of the godhead, He received the authority to act in the name of the Father and it was he who was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is the Great I AM. Jesus, through the administration of the Father, was the God of the Old Testament. It was he who, through the administration of the Father, created all things. The Father and Son are not the same being but they are of the same godhead and are one in purpose and glory. The Father delegates responsibilities to his Son and fellow member of the godhead to carry out the Salvation of mankind. As a member of the godhead, Jesus has the authority to act in the very name of the Father. Nothing in the scriptures indicate that the Father and Son are the same being.

God the Father created Lucifer the same way he created all the rest of his children as spirits. He gave him birth as a spirit. It was only after Lucifer's rebellion in heaven that he was able to also get 1/3 of all the hosts of God's children to follow after him and they were all cast out of heaven for their rebellion against their Father and God. Once they rebelled in heaven Lucifer's name was changed to Satan and Perdition. Satan was then, along with all those who sided with him in heaven, were cast out into the earth. They became Satan and his angels. We too can still fall and become sons of Perdition if we come to a high understanding of God through his spirit and his way of salvation and then reject it. It is only when we come out in open rebellion against God just as Lucifer and his followers did in the premortal world of spirits that we can suffer the same fate as they do. Satan and his follower were denied the opportunity to receive bodies of flesh and bones as we do. Thus we know that anyone who has a body on this earth sided with the Father and the Son in the war in heaven. We are all the spirit offspring of God the Father:

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[ninja007]

Not sure who "we" is that we had accepted as Mormons is. Are you including yourself? You may not believe that Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible but we in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints most certainly do believe they are one and the same. There is absolutely no evidence in the Bible that Jesus and God the Father are the same being. Jesus often prayed unto the Father and before ascending to heaven taught that He would have to go unto the Father. Why would Jesus have to pray to himself? Why would he need to go unto the Father if he were the Father? Makes no sense. Jesus always speaks of the Father as a separate and distinct being. Those who created the idea of the Father and the Son being the same being were completely uninspired and can't understand that someone who sits on the right hand of God is not the same being as God. They have made up some convoluted idea that they are separate persons but the same being. To me that is nothing but a bunch of hogwash.

Did Lucifer fall from heaven? What kind of being was Lucifer before he fell from heaven? We believe that Lucifer was a Son of the Morning before he fell from heaven (Isa. 14:12). Only after he fell from heaven through rebellion was he cast out of heaven into the earth. He was one of the many spirit children of God who rebelled against God and also fought against God in the war in heaven (see Revelation 12).

Lucifer​

• See also Antichrist; Destroyer; Devil; Hell; Sons of Perdition

The name means the “Shining One” or “Lightbearer.” He is also known as the Son of the Morning. Lucifer was a spirit son of Heavenly Father and led the rebellion in the premortal life. The name Lucifer appears only once in the Bible (Isa. 14:12). Latter-day revelation gives more detail on Lucifer’s fall (D&C 76:25–29).

• Lucifer fell in the premortal existence, Isa. 14:12 (Luke 10:18; 2 Ne. 24:12).
• After his fall he became Satan and the devil, D&C 76:25–29 (Moses 4:1–4).

Jesus was God the Father's firstborn spirit child and became part of the godhead before the world was. As a member of the godhead, He received the authority to act in the name of the Father and it was he who was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is the Great I AM. Jesus, through the administration of the Father, was the God of the Old Testament. It was he who, through the administration of the Father, created all things. The Father and Son are not the same being but they are of the same godhead and are one in purpose and glory. The Father delegates responsibilities to his Son and fellow member of the godhead to carry out the Salvation of mankind. As a member of the godhead, Jesus has the authority to act in the very name of the Father. Nothing in the scriptures indicate that the Father and Son are the same being.

God the Father created Lucifer the same way he created all the rest of his children as spirits. He gave him birth as a spirit. It was only after Lucifer's rebellion in heaven that he was able to also get 1/3 of all the hosts of God's children to follow after him and they were all cast out of heaven for their rebellion against their Father and God. Once they rebelled in heaven Lucifer's name was changed to Satan and Perdition. Satan was then, along with all those who sided with him in heaven, were cast out into the earth. They became Satan and his angels. We too can still fall and become sons of Perdition if we come to a high understanding of God through his spirit and his way of salvation and then reject it. It is only when we come out in open rebellion against God just as Lucifer and his followers did in the premortal world of spirits that we can suffer the same fate as they do. Satan and his follower were denied the opportunity to receive bodies of flesh and bones as we do. Thus we know that anyone who has a body on this earth sided with the Father and the Son in the war in heaven. We are all the spirit offspring of God the Father:

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted foJE