GOP hopefuls remind Iowans they oppose Gay Rights

[bodecea]

Interesting avatar for one who isn't a wild-eyed leftist....

You're so blindly polarized you can't see anything beyond your ultra right wing conservative nose, and the poster of your prejudice and biases on everything, which you subsequently define as the left wing. You are incapable of seeing anything in between the opposite extreme polar ends of the spectrum.

The fact that I find Ayn Rand to be a raving lunatic when it comes to her philosophical musings does not mean that I am a "wild-eyed leftist." Certainly, such a label is incompatible with my support for gun ownership rights, my affirmation of state rights and my support for state level governance over federal governance, my opposition to immigration amnesty and open border policies, my opposition to affirmative action and the public demonizing of the white male, etc.

Maybe I should cite your avatar to suggest that you are a foreign bred, American hating liberal, eh?

Or that he's a dog?

 

[Uncensored2008]

How? How does allowing gays and lesbians equal access to legal, civil marriage make the concept of legal marriage "meaningless"?

If I redefine the term "automobile" to include bath mats and throw rugs, then the term no longer has a specific and viable meaning.

It is legal contract.

If that were all, then there would be no issue. There is nothing contractually denied to homosexuals- not one thing.

Clearly the desire to redefine marriage is driven by other concerns.

I'm gay and have a living will...

Then what need do you have to redefine the institution of marriage?

The battle for same sex marriage rights has nothing to do with a voting bloc

The battle to redefine marriage has nothing to do with rights.

Fully support the same rights for all. But you don't seek equal rights, you seek special privilege.

Politicians are seeing which way the wind blows and it isn't blowing the direction the anti-gay want it to.

Yeah, prop 8 in far left California made that real clear....

Young people overwhelmingly support gay and lesbian marriage equality.

You have a terrible shock coming.

How does having more people getting married "erode" the function and foundation of family?

Marriage is the foundation of a family. Homosexual unions cannot result in such.

We have families that we want to protect with legal, civil marriage. How does my legal marriage affect yours in any way? Marriage in Massachusetts has been going on for a while now? Are marriages falling apart as a result?

Do you seriously look at things in such simplistic terms?

During the rise of "no fault" divorce, many warned that it was devastating to the family unit. The flippant left retorted that "no one is going to divorce who wouldn't anyway." But decades later we see the depth of the devastation. What it did was undermine the institution - which is again the goal.

Of course not. Another silly argument against marriage equality...which is why things like DOMA and Prop 8 are being found unconstitutional...

So in fact, you know full well that the public opposes your plans to redefine marriage, and you seek legislation from the bench to crush the voice of the people and force your will on all.

 

[bodecea]

How? How does allowing gays and lesbians equal access to legal, civil marriage make the concept of legal marriage "meaningless"?

If I redefine the term "automobile" to include bath mats and throw rugs, then the term no longer has a specific and viable meaning.

It is legal contract.

If that were all, then there would be no issue. There is nothing contractually denied to homosexuals- not one thing.

Clearly the desire to redefine marriage is driven by other concerns.



Then what need do you have to redefine the institution of marriage?




The battle to redefine marriage has nothing to do with rights.

Fully support the same rights for all. But you don't seek equal rights, you seek special privilege.



Yeah, prop 8 in far left California made that real clear....



You have a terrible shock coming.



Marriage is the foundation of a family. Homosexual unions cannot result in such.

We have families that we want to protect with legal, civil marriage. How does my legal marriage affect yours in any way? Marriage in Massachusetts has been going on for a while now? Are marriages falling apart as a result?

Do you seriously look at things in such simplistic terms?

During the rise of "no fault" divorce, many warned that it was devastating to the family unit. The flippant left retorted that "no one is going to divorce who wouldn't anyway." But decades later we see the depth of the devastation. What it did was undermine the institution - which is again the goal.

Of course not. Another silly argument against marriage equality...which is why things like DOMA and Prop 8 are being found unconstitutional...

So in fact, you know full well that the public opposes your plans to redefine marriage, and you seek legislation from the bench to crush the voice of the people and force your will on all.

What special privileges are those?

 

[Seawytch]

How? How does allowing gays and lesbians equal access to legal, civil marriage make the concept of legal marriage "meaningless"?

If I redefine the term "automobile" to include bath mats and throw rugs, then the term no longer has a specific and viable meaning.

Interesting analogy...but stupid.

People said the same thing about interracial marriage...that it would "degrade the institution of marriage". They said things like:

“natural instinct revolts at it as wrong.”

“a degraded and ignoble population incapable of moral and intellectual development.”

“necessarily involves (the) degradation” of conventional marriage, an institution that “deserves admiration rather than execration.”

“When people (like this) marry, they cannot possibly have any progeny,” wrote an appeals judge in a Missouri case. “And such a fact sufficiently justifies those laws which forbid their marriages.”

A Georgia court wrote that such unions are “not only unnatural, but … always productive of deplorable results. They are productive of evil, and evil only, without any corresponding good … (in accordance with) the God of nature.”

Did any of that happen when interracial marriage bans were overturned?

If that were all, then there would be no issue. There is nothing contractually denied to homosexuals- not one thing.

Clearly the desire to redefine marriage is driven by other concerns.

Sooooo clearly not true. Yes, we can get certain legal protections for our families...at great cost and still they don't come anywhere near to the protections and benefits afforded people who are legally married. Taxes alone are a nightmare for the gay and lesbian couple. There are over a thousand federal rights, benefits and privileges afforded married couples that gay married couples don't have access to.

We want to get married for the EXACT same reasons that heterosexuals do. Are you legally married? Why did you get legally married when you could, instead, just draft up dozens of legal documents at a cost of thousands and thousands of dollars?

Then what need do you have to redefine the institution of marriage?

It is not being "redefined". The definition is still a legal contract between a couple. It will be EXPANDED to include gays and lesbians, not "redefined".

The battle to redefine marriage has nothing to do with rights.

Fully support the same rights for all. But you don't seek equal rights, you seek special privilege.

How is having the EXACT same legal document a "special privilege"? Equality isn't a special privilege.

Yeah, prop 8 in far left California made that real clear....



You have a terrible shock coming.

No, I think it is you who have a shock coming. Ready?

Marriage is the foundation of a family. Homosexual unions cannot result in such.

Since when? When did the "gheys" stop having children? Last I checked, more and more gay couples are raising children. The new census should provide some interesting numbers once all the results have been released. I have two children myself. Why is my family not deserving of the rights, benefits and privileges of legal, civil marriage. You have yet to provide any kind of answer that will hold up in a court of law.

Do you seriously look at things in such simplistic terms?

During the rise of "no fault" divorce, many warned that it was devastating to the family unit. The flippant left retorted that "no one is going to divorce who wouldn't anyway." But decades later we see the depth of the devastation. What it did was undermine the institution - which is again the goal.

ROFLMAO...you see the struggle for marriage equality as gays wanting to destroy and "undermine" the institution rather than their true goal which is to have equal access to that legal, civil union and you call MY views "simplistic"? Should I call the doctor for your irony poisoning?

So in fact, you know full well that the public opposes your plans to redefine marriage, and you seek legislation from the bench to crush the voice of the people and force your will on all.

They don't anymore. Polling shows strong support for marriage equality in California and it really doesn't matter. We should not be voting on civil rights issues. Did you know that interracial marriage did not enjoy majority support until almost 20 years after the Supreme Court ruled bans on it unconstitutional? That's right...according to Gallup, a majority of Americans did not support interracial marriage until the early 1990s.

Bigotry is nothing new and bigotry doesn't play well in a court of law.

 

[bodecea]

How? How does allowing gays and lesbians equal access to legal, civil marriage make the concept of legal marriage "meaningless"?

If I redefine the term "automobile" to include bath mats and throw rugs, then the term no longer has a specific and viable meaning.

Interesting analogy...but stupid.

People said the same thing about interracial marriage...that it would "degrade the institution of marriage". They said things like:

“natural instinct revolts at it as wrong.”

“a degraded and ignoble population incapable of moral and intellectual development.”

“necessarily involves (the) degradation” of conventional marriage, an institution that “deserves admiration rather than execration.”

“When people (like this) marry, they cannot possibly have any progeny,” wrote an appeals judge in a Missouri case. “And such a fact sufficiently justifies those laws which forbid their marriages.”

A Georgia court wrote that such unions are “not only unnatural, but … always productive of deplorable results. They are productive of evil, and evil only, without any corresponding good … (in accordance with) the God of nature.”

Did any of that happen when interracial marriage bans were overturned?



Sooooo clearly not true. Yes, we can get certain legal protections for our families...at great cost and still they don't come anywhere near to the protections and benefits afforded people who are legally married. Taxes alone are a nightmare for the gay and lesbian couple. There are over a thousand federal rights, benefits and privileges afforded married couples that gay married couples don't have access to.

We want to get married for the EXACT same reasons that heterosexuals do. Are you legally married? Why did you get legally married when you could, instead, just draft up dozens of legal documents at a cost of thousands and thousands of dollars?




It is not being "redefined". The definition is still a legal contract between a couple. It will be EXPANDED to include gays and lesbians, not "redefined".


How is having the EXACT same legal document a "special privilege"? Equality isn't a special privilege.



No, I think it is you who have a shock coming. Ready?

Since when? When did the "gheys" stop having children? Last I checked, more and more gay couples are raising children. The new census should provide some interesting numbers once all the results have been released. I have two children myself. Why is my family not deserving of the rights, benefits and privileges of legal, civil marriage. You have yet to provide any kind of answer that will hold up in a court of law.

Do you seriously look at things in such simplistic terms?

During the rise of "no fault" divorce, many warned that it was devastating to the family unit. The flippant left retorted that "no one is going to divorce who wouldn't anyway." But decades later we see the depth of the devastation. What it did was undermine the institution - which is again the goal.

ROFLMAO...you see the struggle for marriage equality as gays wanting to destroy and "undermine" the institution rather than their true goal which is to have equal access to that legal, civil union and you call MY views "simplistic"? Should I call the doctor for your irony poisoning?

So in fact, you know full well that the public opposes your plans to redefine marriage, and you seek legislation from the bench to crush the voice of the people and force your will on all.

They don't anymore. Polling shows strong support for marriage equality in California and it really doesn't matter. We should not be voting on civil rights issues. Did you know that interracial marriage did not enjoy majority support until almost 20 years after the Supreme Court ruled bans on it unconstitutional? That's right...according to Gallup, a majority of Americans did not support interracial marriage until the early 1990s.

Bigotry is nothing new and bigotry doesn't play well in a court of law.

All one has to do is see the gap in pro vs anti gay marriage votes between Prop 22 and Prop H8 to see what direction things are going. And Prop H8 was launched on false pretenses.....anyone seeing their commercials can see the lies. Apparently lying is ok to that sort.

 

[Seawytch]

All one has to do is see the gap in pro vs anti gay marriage votes between Prop 22 and Prop H8 to see what direction things are going. And Prop H8 was launched on false pretenses.....anyone seeing their commercials can see the lies. Apparently lying is ok to that sort.

Of course lying is okay as long as it keeps those "icky gays" from having equal access to legal, civil marriage. For them, the end justifies the means.

 

[Wicked Jester]

So....gay marriage....how does it adversely affect those of you who are not gay? What is it about extending equal civil rights to a group of law-abiding, tax-paying citizens that in some way FRIGHTENS you?

It doesn't frighten me one bit. What people do in their personal lives is their business. I don't want it thrown in the face of my kids, nor shoved down their throats in school, anymore than I want politics or religion shoved down their throats. I just want honesty in the debate leading up to the passage of laws. I'm sick of the propoganda......I want to hear honesty. Saying that Homo's are any better in their relationships is hogwash. Saying that they have, or will have a lower divorce rate, is laughable. There's no evidence to support either claim.... People are people.

Do I think sex between same sex is perverted?....Absolutely.

Do I care what you do behind closed doors?......No.......There are many heteros who are perverts also. Everybody will be judged on their actions.......What happens to them for their perversity, will happen. I could care less what happens to them. It's their problem.

Like I said, I just want honesty in the debate. I don't want to hear the propoganda. I don't want to hear the victim crap. I don't want to hear it even remotely compared to what the blacks had to go through......There is no comparison.

Equal civil rights is equal civil rights...whether you are talking the races, the genders, the ages, the religions, or the sexual orientations.

And I'm always amused when I here "shoved down our throats"....who is shoving teh ghey down your throat, Wicked?

The activists like you are, Bodecea........You engage in false propoganda. Like the divorce rate etc.........Don't fuckin' lie about it. Be honest and quit trying to make claims you can't prove.....You can't prove the divorce rate angle because there is no real data to support it. Don't try and claim that homo's are more harmonious in their relationships when you can't prove it.......Basically, quit trying to prop yourselves up as some sort of special people, because you're not......People are people. And when you start realizing it, the debate will get much easier......There are reasons why gay marriage is not fully accepted across the board. If it were, we wouldn't be having the debate. The debate remains heated because of the propoganda, on both sides.

Now, like I said, I don't want my kids, and my dem wife agrees, exposed to "Heather has two Mommies" and such in a school setting. It's not up to teachers to start defining beliefs, or shaping beliefs. Particularly when kids are too young to fully understand. And that is happening far too often in our public schools. That is the parents job. It's no different than politics or religion. There are things that the school has no business engaging in. Shaping beliefs is just one of them......We're lucky in the fact that we have the financial means to send our kids to a top private school. They don't just shove shit down the childrens throats. And that includes politics, religion, sexual preference, etc........They teach the basics. Parents are the parents, not the teachers.........Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of private school, and they need to start seriously paying attention to what goes on in their public schools as far as curriculum goes.

 

[bodecea]

It doesn't frighten me one bit. What people do in their personal lives is their business. I don't want it thrown in the face of my kids, nor shoved down their throats in school, anymore than I want politics or religion shoved down their throats. I just want honesty in the debate leading up to the passage of laws. I'm sick of the propoganda......I want to hear honesty. Saying that Homo's are any better in their relationships is hogwash. Saying that they have, or will have a lower divorce rate, is laughable. There's no evidence to support either claim.... People are people.

Do I think sex between same sex is perverted?....Absolutely.

Do I care what you do behind closed doors?......No.......There are many heteros who are perverts also. Everybody will be judged on their actions.......What happens to them for their perversity, will happen. I could care less what happens to them. It's their problem.

Like I said, I just want honesty in the debate. I don't want to hear the propoganda. I don't want to hear the victim crap. I don't want to hear it even remotely compared to what the blacks had to go through......There is no comparison.

Equal civil rights is equal civil rights...whether you are talking the races, the genders, the ages, the religions, or the sexual orientations.

And I'm always amused when I here "shoved down our throats"....who is shoving teh ghey down your throat, Wicked?

The activists like you are, Bodecea........You engage in false propoganda. Like the divorce rate etc.........Don't fuckin' lie about it. Be honest and quit trying to make claims you can't prove.....You can't prove the divorce rate angle because there is no real data to support it. Don't try and claim that homo's are more harmonious in their relationships when you can't prove it.......Basically, quit trying to prop yourselves up as some sort of special people, because you're not......People are people. And when you start realizing it, the debate will get much easier......There are reasons why gay marriage is not fully accepted across the board. If it were, we wouldn't be having the debate. The debate remains heated because of the propoganda, on both sides.

Now, like I said, I don't want my kids, and my dem wife agrees, exposed to "Heather has two Mommies" and such in a school setting. It's not up to teachers to start defining beliefs, or shaping beliefs. Particularly when kids are too young to fully understand. And that is happening far too often in our public schools. That is the parents job. It's no different than politics or religion. There are things that the school has no business engaging in. Shaping beliefs is just one of them......We're lucky in the fact that we have the financial means to send our kids to a top private school. They don't just shove shit down the childrens throats. And that includes politics, religion, sexual preference, etc........They teach the basics. Parents are the parents, not the teachers.........Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of private school, and they need to start seriously paying attention to what goes on in their public schools as far as curriculum goes.

OK, I'm confused now....where have I said that Homosexuals are special people? Apparently that is what has your knickers all twisted.

 

[Seawytch]

The activists like you are, Bodecea........You engage in false propoganda. Like the divorce rate etc.........Don't fuckin' lie about it. Be honest and quit trying to make claims you can't prove.....You can't prove the divorce rate angle because there is no real data to support it. Don't try and claim that homo's are more harmonious in their relationships when you can't prove it.......Basically, quit trying to prop yourselves up as some sort of special people, because you're not......People are people. And when you start realizing it, the debate will get much easier......There are reasons why gay marriage is not fully accepted across the board. If it were, we wouldn't be having the debate. The debate remains heated because of the propoganda, on both sides.

I must have missed the claim from Bodecea that gay and lesbian relationships are "better". All the data shows that gay and lesbian relationships are THE SAME as heterosexual relationships. Divorce rate data bears that out (and there IS data). Our relationships are EXACTLY the same and therefore should be treated EXACTLY the same. That's all we are asking for, is to have our consenting adult, non familial relationships treated the EXACT SAME as heterosexual consenting adult, non familial relationships.

Now, like I said, I don't want my kids, and my dem wife agrees, exposed to "Heather has two Mommies" and such in a school setting.

But you don't mind if they are "exposed" to Cinderella? You aren't treating the relationships the same. That's discrimination in case you were wondering. See, Heather probably goes to school with your kids. Why should Heather's family not be reflected in what is "taught" in school?

It's not up to teachers to start defining beliefs, or shaping beliefs. Particularly when kids are too young to fully understand. And that is happening far too often in our public schools. That is the parents job. It's no different than politics or religion. There are things that the school has no business engaging in. Shaping beliefs is just one of them......We're lucky in the fact that we have the financial means to send our kids to a top private school. They don't just shove shit down the childrens throats. And that includes politics, religion, sexual preference, etc........They teach the basics. Parents are the parents, not the teachers.........Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of private school, and they need to start seriously paying attention to what goes on in their public schools as far as curriculum goes.

How does showing the truth that something exists "define beliefs"? The children of gays and lesbians ARE going to school with the children of straights. GAY children are going to school with straight children. Where is the harm in pointing that out and teaching that these differences don't matter? It is no different than an educator teaching that it isn't okay to pick on the {insert minority here} kid. Pointing out that gay kids or the children of gay parents exist does not "define" a belief. You are still free to teach your children that those "gheys" are icky.

 

[Gadawg73]

It doesn't frighten me one bit. What people do in their personal lives is their business. I don't want it thrown in the face of my kids, nor shoved down their throats in school, anymore than I want politics or religion shoved down their throats. I just want honesty in the debate leading up to the passage of laws. I'm sick of the propoganda......I want to hear honesty. Saying that Homo's are any better in their relationships is hogwash. Saying that they have, or will have a lower divorce rate, is laughable. There's no evidence to support either claim.... People are people.

Do I think sex between same sex is perverted?....Absolutely.

Do I care what you do behind closed doors?......No.......There are many heteros who are perverts also. Everybody will be judged on their actions.......What happens to them for their perversity, will happen. I could care less what happens to them. It's their problem.

Like I said, I just want honesty in the debate. I don't want to hear the propoganda. I don't want to hear the victim crap. I don't want to hear it even remotely compared to what the blacks had to go through......There is no comparison.

Equal civil rights is equal civil rights...whether you are talking the races, the genders, the ages, the religions, or the sexual orientations.

And I'm always amused when I here "shoved down our throats"....who is shoving teh ghey down your throat, Wicked?

The activists like you are, Bodecea........You engage in false propoganda. Like the divorce rate etc.........Don't fuckin' lie about it. Be honest and quit trying to make claims you can't prove.....You can't prove the divorce rate angle because there is no real data to support it. Don't try and claim that homo's are more harmonious in their relationships when you can't prove it.......Basically, quit trying to prop yourselves up as some sort of special people, because you're not......People are people. And when you start realizing it, the debate will get much easier......There are reasons why gay marriage is not fully accepted across the board. If it were, we wouldn't be having the debate. The debate remains heated because of the propoganda, on both sides.

Now, like I said, I don't want my kids, and my dem wife agrees, exposed to "Heather has two Mommies" and such in a school setting. It's not up to teachers to start defining beliefs, or shaping beliefs. Particularly when kids are too young to fully understand. And that is happening far too often in our public schools. That is the parents job. It's no different than politics or religion. There are things that the school has no business engaging in. Shaping beliefs is just one of them......We're lucky in the fact that we have the financial means to send our kids to a top private school. They don't just shove shit down the childrens throats. And that includes politics, religion, sexual preference, etc........They teach the basics. Parents are the parents, not the teachers.........Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of private school, and they need to start seriously paying attention to what goes on in their public schools as far as curriculum goes.

Talk about propaganda. You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
The "Heather has 2 mommies" is so blown out of proportion.
It is your business what you teach your kids but when your kids enter the school system having been taught that someone else's parents are perverted then it becomes everyone's business.
Best thing ever happened in the public schools around here was when they started teaching the kids that gays and lesbians are equal citizens and not perverted. The Gay/Straight Alliance here in the high school has straight kids in it 20 to 1 over the gay kids. And guess why? The gay kids are afraid to come out because of the kids that are taught at home that they are "perverted". Sad as hell.
You and everyone has a choice so quit your bitching, moaning and whining.
How you fail to see that allowing kids to come to school believing one group of citizens are perverted causes problems is unbelievable.
If a 56 year old straight, flannel shirt wearing,beer and George Dickel drinking, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, former defensive end from Georgia can figure it out I believe you can also.
Dick Cheney figured it out also.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Equal civil rights is equal civil rights...whether you are talking the races, the genders, the ages, the religions, or the sexual orientations.

And I'm always amused when I here "shoved down our throats"....who is shoving teh ghey down your throat, Wicked?

The activists like you are, Bodecea........You engage in false propoganda. Like the divorce rate etc.........Don't fuckin' lie about it. Be honest and quit trying to make claims you can't prove.....You can't prove the divorce rate angle because there is no real data to support it. Don't try and claim that homo's are more harmonious in their relationships when you can't prove it.......Basically, quit trying to prop yourselves up as some sort of special people, because you're not......People are people. And when you start realizing it, the debate will get much easier......There are reasons why gay marriage is not fully accepted across the board. If it were, we wouldn't be having the debate. The debate remains heated because of the propoganda, on both sides.

Now, like I said, I don't want my kids, and my dem wife agrees, exposed to "Heather has two Mommies" and such in a school setting. It's not up to teachers to start defining beliefs, or shaping beliefs. Particularly when kids are too young to fully understand. And that is happening far too often in our public schools. That is the parents job. It's no different than politics or religion. There are things that the school has no business engaging in. Shaping beliefs is just one of them......We're lucky in the fact that we have the financial means to send our kids to a top private school. They don't just shove shit down the childrens throats. And that includes politics, religion, sexual preference, etc........They teach the basics. Parents are the parents, not the teachers.........Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of private school, and they need to start seriously paying attention to what goes on in their public schools as far as curriculum goes.

Talk about propaganda. You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
The "Heather has 2 mommies" is so blown out of proportion.
It is your business what you teach your kids but when your kids enter the school system having been taught that someone else's parents are perverted then it becomes everyone's business.
Best thing ever happened in the public schools around here was when they started teaching the kids that gays and lesbians are equal citizens and not perverted. The Gay/Straight Alliance here in the high school has straight kids in it 20 to 1 over the gay kids. And guess why? The gay kids are afraid to come out because of the kids that are taught at home that they are "perverted". Sad as hell.
You and everyone has a choice so quit your bitching, moaning and whining.
How you fail to see that allowing kids to come to school believing one group of citizens are perverted causes problems is unbelievable.
If a 56 year old straight, flannel shirt wearing,beer and George Dickel drinking, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, former defensive end from Georgia can figure it out I believe you can also.
Dick Cheney figured it out also.

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Btw, stop that tobacco chewing habit. It leads to green teeth and festering mouths. It's a nasty habit. Coke cans filled with nasty spit is disgusting.......IT'S NOT POLTICALLY CORRECT NOWADAYS!.......You must conform your beliefs!

 

[Gadawg73]

The activists like you are, Bodecea........You engage in false propoganda. Like the divorce rate etc.........Don't fuckin' lie about it. Be honest and quit trying to make claims you can't prove.....You can't prove the divorce rate angle because there is no real data to support it. Don't try and claim that homo's are more harmonious in their relationships when you can't prove it.......Basically, quit trying to prop yourselves up as some sort of special people, because you're not......People are people. And when you start realizing it, the debate will get much easier......There are reasons why gay marriage is not fully accepted across the board. If it were, we wouldn't be having the debate. The debate remains heated because of the propoganda, on both sides.

Now, like I said, I don't want my kids, and my dem wife agrees, exposed to "Heather has two Mommies" and such in a school setting. It's not up to teachers to start defining beliefs, or shaping beliefs. Particularly when kids are too young to fully understand. And that is happening far too often in our public schools. That is the parents job. It's no different than politics or religion. There are things that the school has no business engaging in. Shaping beliefs is just one of them......We're lucky in the fact that we have the financial means to send our kids to a top private school. They don't just shove shit down the childrens throats. And that includes politics, religion, sexual preference, etc........They teach the basics. Parents are the parents, not the teachers.........Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of private school, and they need to start seriously paying attention to what goes on in their public schools as far as curriculum goes.

Talk about propaganda. You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
The "Heather has 2 mommies" is so blown out of proportion.
It is your business what you teach your kids but when your kids enter the school system having been taught that someone else's parents are perverted then it becomes everyone's business.
Best thing ever happened in the public schools around here was when they started teaching the kids that gays and lesbians are equal citizens and not perverted. The Gay/Straight Alliance here in the high school has straight kids in it 20 to 1 over the gay kids. And guess why? The gay kids are afraid to come out because of the kids that are taught at home that they are "perverted". Sad as hell.
You and everyone has a choice so quit your bitching, moaning and whining.
How you fail to see that allowing kids to come to school believing one group of citizens are perverted causes problems is unbelievable.
If a 56 year old straight, flannel shirt wearing,beer and George Dickel drinking, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, former defensive end from Georgia can figure it out I believe you can also.
Dick Cheney figured it out also.

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Btw, stop that tobacco chewing habit. It leads to green teeth and festering mouths. It's a nasty habit. Coke cans filled with nasty spit is disgusting.......IT'S NOT POLTICALLY CORRECT NOWADAYS!.......You must conform your beliefs!

I only chew maybe a half dozen times a year fishing, if that.
Shoving religion and politics down the throats of kids is far different than having them believe some of their classmates are perverted.
My politics are conservative to the core. I believe government has no business involved in teaching religion. Respect and facts should be taught. It is a fact there are gays and lesbians. Teaching kids they exist causes NO harm. The gay boogey man isn't going to indoctrinate your kids. Human sexuality doesn't work that way. I used to think like you and changed about 10 years ago. 20 years from now or sooner you will look back and say how much gays are a non issue. We have bigger priorities like killing terrorists, electing fiscal conservatives and cutting spending and taxes.

 

[bodecea]

The activists like you are, Bodecea........You engage in false propoganda. Like the divorce rate etc.........Don't fuckin' lie about it. Be honest and quit trying to make claims you can't prove.....You can't prove the divorce rate angle because there is no real data to support it. Don't try and claim that homo's are more harmonious in their relationships when you can't prove it.......Basically, quit trying to prop yourselves up as some sort of special people, because you're not......People are people. And when you start realizing it, the debate will get much easier......There are reasons why gay marriage is not fully accepted across the board. If it were, we wouldn't be having the debate. The debate remains heated because of the propoganda, on both sides.

Now, like I said, I don't want my kids, and my dem wife agrees, exposed to "Heather has two Mommies" and such in a school setting. It's not up to teachers to start defining beliefs, or shaping beliefs. Particularly when kids are too young to fully understand. And that is happening far too often in our public schools. That is the parents job. It's no different than politics or religion. There are things that the school has no business engaging in. Shaping beliefs is just one of them......We're lucky in the fact that we have the financial means to send our kids to a top private school. They don't just shove shit down the childrens throats. And that includes politics, religion, sexual preference, etc........They teach the basics. Parents are the parents, not the teachers.........Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of private school, and they need to start seriously paying attention to what goes on in their public schools as far as curriculum goes.

Talk about propaganda. You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
The "Heather has 2 mommies" is so blown out of proportion.
It is your business what you teach your kids but when your kids enter the school system having been taught that someone else's parents are perverted then it becomes everyone's business.
Best thing ever happened in the public schools around here was when they started teaching the kids that gays and lesbians are equal citizens and not perverted. The Gay/Straight Alliance here in the high school has straight kids in it 20 to 1 over the gay kids. And guess why? The gay kids are afraid to come out because of the kids that are taught at home that they are "perverted". Sad as hell.
You and everyone has a choice so quit your bitching, moaning and whining.
How you fail to see that allowing kids to come to school believing one group of citizens are perverted causes problems is unbelievable.
If a 56 year old straight, flannel shirt wearing,beer and George Dickel drinking, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, former defensive end from Georgia can figure it out I believe you can also.
Dick Cheney figured it out also.

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Btw, stop that tobacco chewing habit. It leads to green teeth and festering mouths. It's a nasty habit. Coke cans filled with nasty spit is disgusting.......IT'S NOT POLTICALLY CORRECT NOWADAYS!.......You must conform your beliefs!

And many conservatives teach their kids that people of other religions and atheists are less than American and that liberals are evil.

So.....? What is your point besides whining.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Talk about propaganda. You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
The "Heather has 2 mommies" is so blown out of proportion.
It is your business what you teach your kids but when your kids enter the school system having been taught that someone else's parents are perverted then it becomes everyone's business.
Best thing ever happened in the public schools around here was when they started teaching the kids that gays and lesbians are equal citizens and not perverted. The Gay/Straight Alliance here in the high school has straight kids in it 20 to 1 over the gay kids. And guess why? The gay kids are afraid to come out because of the kids that are taught at home that they are "perverted". Sad as hell.
You and everyone has a choice so quit your bitching, moaning and whining.
How you fail to see that allowing kids to come to school believing one group of citizens are perverted causes problems is unbelievable.
If a 56 year old straight, flannel shirt wearing,beer and George Dickel drinking, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, former defensive end from Georgia can figure it out I believe you can also.
Dick Cheney figured it out also.

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Btw, stop that tobacco chewing habit. It leads to green teeth and festering mouths. It's a nasty habit. Coke cans filled with nasty spit is disgusting.......IT'S NOT POLTICALLY CORRECT NOWADAYS!.......You must conform your beliefs!

I only chew maybe a half dozen times a year fishing, if that.
Shoving religion and politics down the throats of kids is far different than having them believe some of their classmates are perverted.
My politics are conservative to the core. I believe government has no business involved in teaching religion. Respect and facts should be taught. It is a fact there are gays and lesbians. Teaching kids they exist causes NO harm. The gay boogey man isn't going to indoctrinate your kids. Human sexuality doesn't work that way. I used to think like you and changed about 10 years ago. 20 years from now or sooner you will look back and say how much gays are a non issue. We have bigger priorities like killing terrorists, electing fiscal conservatives and cutting spending and taxes.

Noooooooo Shiiiiiiiiiit!.......There are gays and lesbians. Tell me something I don't already know.

It's not about gays and lesbians are evil, nor do I believe that children should be taught that they are evil. Quit trying to put words in my mouth.

I'm simply saying that there are things that are out of bounds, particularly when a kid is too young to understand.

And, there are things that are taught in certain religions that shouldn't be countered in a school setting........That's the parents job to counter, or not to counter.

Schools need to get out of the politically correct business, and get back to teaching kids the basics........Let the parents be parents.

 

[gekaap]

If I redefine the term "automobile" to include bath mats and throw rugs, then the term no longer has a specific and viable meaning.

Okay, this idea of "defining" and "redefining" marriage is big for you, so I have a recommendation. How about we leave the "defining" of marriage to the religious institutions? We'll get rid of "marriage" in the legal sense, we'll allow civil unions for all couples, regardless of orientation, for the legal questions of inheritance, power of attorney, etc, and we'll eliminate any and all tax advantages for either the married or the civilly joined. How does that sound?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Talk about propaganda. You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
The "Heather has 2 mommies" is so blown out of proportion.
It is your business what you teach your kids but when your kids enter the school system having been taught that someone else's parents are perverted then it becomes everyone's business.
Best thing ever happened in the public schools around here was when they started teaching the kids that gays and lesbians are equal citizens and not perverted. The Gay/Straight Alliance here in the high school has straight kids in it 20 to 1 over the gay kids. And guess why? The gay kids are afraid to come out because of the kids that are taught at home that they are "perverted". Sad as hell.
You and everyone has a choice so quit your bitching, moaning and whining.
How you fail to see that allowing kids to come to school believing one group of citizens are perverted causes problems is unbelievable.
If a 56 year old straight, flannel shirt wearing,beer and George Dickel drinking, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, former defensive end from Georgia can figure it out I believe you can also.
Dick Cheney figured it out also.

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Btw, stop that tobacco chewing habit. It leads to green teeth and festering mouths. It's a nasty habit. Coke cans filled with nasty spit is disgusting.......IT'S NOT POLTICALLY CORRECT NOWADAYS!.......You must conform your beliefs!

And many conservatives teach their kids that people of other religions and atheists are less than American and that liberals are evil.

So.....? What is your point besides whining.

And that's not right also. Don't try and cherry pick my points. You fail everytime you do.

Look, i'm just sick of the BS going on in public schools. It's not up to the public schools to define or shape beliefs either way........The problem going on is that they are not discussing all sides. They are ramming one point of view down their throats.

It's like with my wife and I. She's moderate dem, i'm repub. Our kids get both points of view......Like on the gay parent issue. I don't fully believe in it, my wife is on the fence about it. Our kids get both points of view.... They are smart to figure out their own beliefs on any given issue. They are perfectly capable of processing, and coming to their own conclusions. They are not taught to believe anything either way.....They are not taught to believe gays are evil..........It's no different with religion. I'm Lutheran, my wife is Catholic. They are equally exposed to both. It's up to them to process their final beliefs and either choose or not. That's their decision. My wifes stepmother in-law is Jewish, she takes them to temple all the time. We don't have a problem with it. It only gives them a deeper knowledge. If they find a religion that's fit, excellent. If they choose not to commit to a certain religion, or not to believe at all, excellent. That's their choice.

 

[bodecea]

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Btw, stop that tobacco chewing habit. It leads to green teeth and festering mouths. It's a nasty habit. Coke cans filled with nasty spit is disgusting.......IT'S NOT POLTICALLY CORRECT NOWADAYS!.......You must conform your beliefs!

And many conservatives teach their kids that people of other religions and atheists are less than American and that liberals are evil.

So.....? What is your point besides whining.

And that's not right also. Don't try and cherry pick my points. You fail everytime you do.

Look, i'm just sick of the BS going on in public schools. It's not up to the public schools to define or shape beliefs either way........The problem going on is that they are not discussing all sides. They are ramming one point of view down their throats.

It's like with my wife and I. She's moderate dem, i'm repub. Our kids get both points of view......Like on the gay parent issue. I don't fully believe in it, my wife is on the fence about it. Our kids get both points of view.... They are smart to figure out there own beliefs on any given issue. They are perfectly capable of processing, and coming to their own conclusions. They are not taught to believe anything either way.....They are not taught to believe gays are evil..........It's no different with religion. I'm Lutheran, my wife is Catholic. They are equally exposed to both. It's up to them to process their final beliefs and either choose or not. That's their decision. My wifes stepmother in-law is Jewish, she takes them to temple all the time. We don't have a problem with it. It only gives them a deeper knowledge. If they find a religion that's fit, excellent. If they choose not to commit to a certain religion, or not to believe at all, excellent. That's their choice.

Isn't it sad that I had to mention it for you to even acknowledge that this is a two sided coin?

 

[Wicked Jester]

And many conservatives teach their kids that people of other religions and atheists are less than American and that liberals are evil.

So.....? What is your point besides whining.

And that's not right also. Don't try and cherry pick my points. You fail everytime you do.

Look, i'm just sick of the BS going on in public schools. It's not up to the public schools to define or shape beliefs either way........The problem going on is that they are not discussing all sides. They are ramming one point of view down their throats.

It's like with my wife and I. She's moderate dem, i'm repub. Our kids get both points of view......Like on the gay parent issue. I don't fully believe in it, my wife is on the fence about it. Our kids get both points of view.... They are smart to figure out there own beliefs on any given issue. They are perfectly capable of processing, and coming to their own conclusions. They are not taught to believe anything either way.....They are not taught to believe gays are evil..........It's no different with religion. I'm Lutheran, my wife is Catholic. They are equally exposed to both. It's up to them to process their final beliefs and either choose or not. That's their decision. My wifes stepmother in-law is Jewish, she takes them to temple all the time. We don't have a problem with it. It only gives them a deeper knowledge. If they find a religion that's fit, excellent. If they choose not to commit to a certain religion, or not to believe at all, excellent. That's their choice.

Isn't it sad that I had to mention it for you to even acknowledge that this is a two sided coin?

That's right. That's why I used it in comparison with the issue another poster and I were discussing........There was no need to acknowledge it. So no, you didn't do a damn thing.

Nothing new there.

 

[Seawytch]

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

To "teach" what? Tolerance? Yes it is their job to teach tolerance. Schools have an obligation to address bullying and who are subject to the most bullying (2nd only to fat kids)? Gay kids are. Schools SHOULD be addressing that. You are still free to teach your kids that gays are icky, but the school absolutely should be addressing tolerance for ALL students.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

Hardly. However, should should be teaching that ALL students deserve the same degree of respect...including religious beliefs. Saying that there ARE Christians or gay people is not saying YOU should be Christian or gay.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Your assertion that kids are being taught what to believe in school certainly IS bullshit. Saying that some people ARE gay (or Christian) and should be treating with respect isn't "teaching" anything.

Why do you keep ignoring my posts and only reply to Dawg?

 

[bodecea]

And that's not right also. Don't try and cherry pick my points. You fail everytime you do.

Look, i'm just sick of the BS going on in public schools. It's not up to the public schools to define or shape beliefs either way........The problem going on is that they are not discussing all sides. They are ramming one point of view down their throats.

It's like with my wife and I. She's moderate dem, i'm repub. Our kids get both points of view......Like on the gay parent issue. I don't fully believe in it, my wife is on the fence about it. Our kids get both points of view.... They are smart to figure out there own beliefs on any given issue. They are perfectly capable of processing, and coming to their own conclusions. They are not taught to believe anything either way.....They are not taught to believe gays are evil..........It's no different with religion. I'm Lutheran, my wife is Catholic. They are equally exposed to both. It's up to them to process their final beliefs and either choose or not. That's their decision. My wifes stepmother in-law is Jewish, she takes them to temple all the time. We don't have a problem with it. It only gives them a deeper knowledge. If they find a religion that's fit, excellent. If they choose not to commit to a certain religion, or not to believe at all, excellent. That's their choice.

Isn't it sad that I had to mention it for you to even acknowledge that this is a two sided coin?

That's right. That's why I used it in comparison with the issue another poster and I were discussing........There was no need to acknowledge it. So no, you didn't do a damn thing.

Nothing new there.

Uh huh....thus your need to respond.....