GOP hopefuls remind Iowans they oppose Gay Rights

[Seawytch]

I'm simply saying that there are things that are out of bounds, particularly when a kid is too young to understand.

So give some examples of what is "out of bounds" when discussing these things in school? How young is "too young to understand". I think you'd be surprised at what kids can "understand". Tell a 5 year old that Aunt Sally and Aunt Susie love each other like Mom and Dad do and they get it just fine.

 

[bodecea]

I'm simply saying that there are things that are out of bounds, particularly when a kid is too young to understand.

So give some examples of what is "out of bounds" when discussing these things in school? How young is "too young to understand". I think you'd be surprised at what kids can "understand". Tell a 5 year old that Aunt Sally and Aunt Susie love each other like Mom and Dad do and they get it just fine.

At the risk of giving someone another opportunity to attack my family, we've never had problems with our daughter in school. The parents are friends, the kids knew she had two moms from the get go and that's that. She was in Brownies and Girl Scouts, played and continues to play sports, school and club, and is an A-B student. Dare I say she's popular and gets along quite well with her teachers. Her friends drop by here...hang out at our house half the time and at their houses half the time. Totally normal except she's got two moms while her friends have a mom and a dad, or a mom only or a mom and step-dad, or a step-mom and dad, or living with grandparents.

 

[Seawytch]

I'm simply saying that there are things that are out of bounds, particularly when a kid is too young to understand.

So give some examples of what is "out of bounds" when discussing these things in school? How young is "too young to understand". I think you'd be surprised at what kids can "understand". Tell a 5 year old that Aunt Sally and Aunt Susie love each other like Mom and Dad do and they get it just fine.

At the risk of giving someone another opportunity to attack my family, we've never had problems with our daughter in school. The parents are friends, the kids knew she had two moms from the get go and that's that. She was in Brownies and Girl Scouts, played and continues to play sports, school and club, and is an A-B student. Dare I say she's popular and gets along quite well with her teachers. Her friends drop by here...hang out at our house half the time and at their houses half the time. Totally normal except she's got two moms while her friends have a mom and a dad, or a mom only or a mom and step-dad, or a step-mom and dad, or living with grandparents.

I'll stand with you and set my family up for "attack" too. We've not had any problems either, even from the most religious in our small town. My kids have been going to the same school since pre-school (and are now in 3rd and 5th grades) and all the kids know they have two moms and have since pre-school. My kids have no problem correcting people that ASSUME they have a mother and a father.

My son commented the other day that he's one of the few people in his class whose parents are still married. Now tell me again how my family is destroying the "institution" of marriage?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

To "teach" what? Tolerance? Yes it is their job to teach tolerance. Schools have an obligation to address bullying and who are subject to the most bullying (2nd only to fat kids)? Gay kids are. Schools SHOULD be addressing that. You are still free to teach your kids that gays are icky, but the school absolutely should be addressing tolerance for ALL students.

Funny how you cherry pick and completely ignore the politics and religion angle. Many libs teach their kids that religion is just ridiculous, and that conservatives are evil. I suppose by your thinking, then schools should just start shoving religion and politics down their throats to counter the parents belief.

Hardly. However, should should be teaching that ALL students deserve the same degree of respect...including religious beliefs. Saying that there ARE Christians or gay people is not saying YOU should be Christian or gay.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Your assertion that kids are being taught what to believe in school certainly IS bullshit. Saying that some people ARE gay (or Christian) and should be treating with respect isn't "teaching" anything.

Why do you keep ignoring my posts and only reply to Dawg?

I'm not teaching my kids that gays are "icky"...So get off that bullshit, and quit playing that fuckin' victim card.

I don't have a problem with teaching tolerance. It should be taught. But it is a fact that many teachers take it beyond it that......Case in point, Heather has two mommy's. Fine, Heather has two mommy's. Some kids have two mommies or daddy's, and that should be tolerated and not used against them. What happens though, is you have teachers who take it beyond that, and start teaching that it's just a wonderful thing. That it should be widely accepted as perfectly normal by everybody.....Well, a kids religion may teach them differently, and it's not up to the schools to teach the virtues of it all.....I'm speaking in terms of personal experience. Our twin daughters came home asking all kinds of bizarre questions about religion and politics when they were 6 year olds. Their teacher (who was eventually fired as a result of our actions and several other parents actions) was continually shoving BS left wing talking points down their throats. It was far out of the realm of what children should be taught. One parent attached a long play digital voice recorder to her kids backpack to see if she could find out what was going on. Because her son too was asking all kinds of weird shit. What was recorded was appalling. It was nothing but a bunch of anti-war, anti-bush, anti- establishment BS....When we sat with the superintendent and listened to it, everybody was blown away...And we would have been just as pissed if it were the opposite being shoved down their throats....Unfortunately, this happens far too often in our public schools. More than people want to admit.....It's why our kids were yanked and put into private school.

Yeah, teach tolerence, i'm all for it, I demand it. But it should never be taken beyond that level. And we see time and time again that it is taken beyond that level.

 

[bodecea]

Like I said, it's not the schools place to define or shape beliefs. Nobody is saying that kids should be taught to villify......But it's not up to the schools to teach it.

To "teach" what? Tolerance? Yes it is their job to teach tolerance. Schools have an obligation to address bullying and who are subject to the most bullying (2nd only to fat kids)? Gay kids are. Schools SHOULD be addressing that. You are still free to teach your kids that gays are icky, but the school absolutely should be addressing tolerance for ALL students.



Hardly. However, should should be teaching that ALL students deserve the same degree of respect...including religious beliefs. Saying that there ARE Christians or gay people is not saying YOU should be Christian or gay.

That's the problem nowadays. Many believe that kids can't think for themselves. That they must be told what to believe. That it must be taught in public schools so they believe correctly......Bullshit!

Your assertion that kids are being taught what to believe in school certainly IS bullshit. Saying that some people ARE gay (or Christian) and should be treating with respect isn't "teaching" anything.

Why do you keep ignoring my posts and only reply to Dawg?

I'm not teaching my kids that gays are "icky"...So get off that bullshit, and quit playing that fuckin' victim card.

I don't have a problem with teaching tolerance. It should be taught. But it is a fact that many teachers take it beyond it that......Case in point, Heather has two mommy's. Fine, Heather has two mommy's. Some kids have two mommies or daddy's, and that should be tolerated and not used against them. What happens though, is you have teachers who take it beyond that, and start teaching that it's just a wonderful thing. That it should be widely accepted as perfectly normal by everybody.....Well, a kids religion may teach them differently, and it's not up to the schools to teach the virtues of it all.....I'm speaking in terms of personal experience. Our twin daughters came home asking all kinds of bizarre questions about religion and politics when they were 6 year olds. Their teacher (who was eventually fired as a result of our actions and several other parents actions) was continually shoving BS left wing talking points down their throats. It was far out of the realm of what children should be taught. One parent attached a long play digital voice recorder to her kids backpack to see if she could find out what was going on. Because her son too was asking all kinds of weird shit. What was recorded was appalling. It was nothing but a bunch of anti-war, anti-bush, anti- establishment BS....When we sat with the superintendent and listened to it, everybody was blown away...And we would have been just as pissed if it were the opposite being shoved down their throats....Unfortunately, this happens far too often in our public schools. More than people want to admit.....It's why our kids were yanked and put into private school.

Yeah, teach tolerence, i'm all for it, I demand it. But it should never be taken beyond that level. And we see time and time again that it is taken beyond that level.

So you don't share with your kids the attitude you have that allows you to call me some of the foul things you have on this forum? I doubt that very much.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I'm simply saying that there are things that are out of bounds, particularly when a kid is too young to understand.

So give some examples of what is "out of bounds" when discussing these things in school? How young is "too young to understand". I think you'd be surprised at what kids can "understand". Tell a 5 year old that Aunt Sally and Aunt Susie love each other like Mom and Dad do and they get it just fine.

Funny you mention that. A 5 year old isn't yet old enough to understand that picking boogers and rolling them into lil' balls just isn't cool or funny.......So yeah, you can CLAIM they fully understand, doesn't mean it's true.

And don't preach to me what "kids can understand"......We have three kids. Twin 11 year old daughters, and a soon to be 6 year old adopted son who is special needs. He'll most likely never develop mentally enough to understand any of this. Our daughters are fully aware and understand everything.

 

[Wicked Jester]

To "teach" what? Tolerance? Yes it is their job to teach tolerance. Schools have an obligation to address bullying and who are subject to the most bullying (2nd only to fat kids)? Gay kids are. Schools SHOULD be addressing that. You are still free to teach your kids that gays are icky, but the school absolutely should be addressing tolerance for ALL students.



Hardly. However, should should be teaching that ALL students deserve the same degree of respect...including religious beliefs. Saying that there ARE Christians or gay people is not saying YOU should be Christian or gay.

Your assertion that kids are being taught what to believe in school certainly IS bullshit. Saying that some people ARE gay (or Christian) and should be treating with respect isn't "teaching" anything.

Why do you keep ignoring my posts and only reply to Dawg?

I'm not teaching my kids that gays are "icky"...So get off that bullshit, and quit playing that fuckin' victim card.

I don't have a problem with teaching tolerance. It should be taught. But it is a fact that many teachers take it beyond it that......Case in point, Heather has two mommy's. Fine, Heather has two mommy's. Some kids have two mommies or daddy's, and that should be tolerated and not used against them. What happens though, is you have teachers who take it beyond that, and start teaching that it's just a wonderful thing. That it should be widely accepted as perfectly normal by everybody.....Well, a kids religion may teach them differently, and it's not up to the schools to teach the virtues of it all.....I'm speaking in terms of personal experience. Our twin daughters came home asking all kinds of bizarre questions about religion and politics when they were 6 year olds. Their teacher (who was eventually fired as a result of our actions and several other parents actions) was continually shoving BS left wing talking points down their throats. It was far out of the realm of what children should be taught. One parent attached a long play digital voice recorder to her kids backpack to see if she could find out what was going on. Because her son too was asking all kinds of weird shit. What was recorded was appalling. It was nothing but a bunch of anti-war, anti-bush, anti- establishment BS....When we sat with the superintendent and listened to it, everybody was blown away...And we would have been just as pissed if it were the opposite being shoved down their throats....Unfortunately, this happens far too often in our public schools. More than people want to admit.....It's why our kids were yanked and put into private school.

Yeah, teach tolerence, i'm all for it, I demand it. But it should never be taken beyond that level. And we see time and time again that it is taken beyond that level.

So you don't share with your kids the attitude you have that allows you to call me some of the foul things you have on this forum? I doubt that very much.

You invite it Bodecea, with your snarky lil' better than thou attitude. You've always been that way......Hopefully, you don't share that snarky better than thou attitude with your kid. You're no different than anybody else.......Yes Bodecea, you have called me foul things in the past so, don't even try and deny it.

If you can dish out, but can't take it, then maybe you should go find a "discover your inner sensitivity" board. Where everything thing is unicorns, rainbows, rose scented fairy dust farts, pretty meadows, and lilac scented shit.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So only "wild-eyed" leftists can mock Ayn Rand? ROFLMAO

Only wild eyed leftists would attempt to. After all, only a fool mocks what they don't comprehend.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I'm simply saying that there are things that are out of bounds, particularly when a kid is too young to understand.

So give some examples of what is "out of bounds" when discussing these things in school? How young is "too young to understand". I think you'd be surprised at what kids can "understand". Tell a 5 year old that Aunt Sally and Aunt Susie love each other like Mom and Dad do and they get it just fine.

At the risk of giving someone another opportunity to attack my family, we've never had problems with our daughter in school. The parents are friends, the kids knew she had two moms from the get go and that's that. She was in Brownies and Girl Scouts, played and continues to play sports, school and club, and is an A-B student. Dare I say she's popular and gets along quite well with her teachers. Her friends drop by here...hang out at our house half the time and at their houses half the time. Totally normal except she's got two moms while her friends have a mom and a dad, or a mom only or a mom and step-dad, or a step-mom and dad, or living with grandparents.

So, who's attacked your family, Bodecea?

I haven't read the entire thread, but i've yet to see your family attacked......Are you trying to pull that victim card again?

 

[Uncensored2008]

You're so blindly polarized you can't see anything beyond your ultra right wing conservative nose, and the poster of your prejudice and biases on everything, which you subsequently define as the left wing. You are incapable of seeing anything in between the opposite extreme polar ends of the spectrum.

Have you ever read anything Rand wrote? I don't mean articles ABOUT what she wrote posted on Daily KOS, have you read anything directly?

The fact that I find Ayn Rand to be a raving lunatic when it comes to her philosophical musings does not mean that I am a "wild-eyed leftist."

As a moderate, do you find Michael Moore to be just a little too conservative, or way too conservative?

Certainly, such a label is incompatible with my support for gun ownership rights,

Why?

Obama's mentor, Bill Ayers carried a gun.

You're not seeing the Weather Underground as "right of center," are you?

Maybe I should cite your avatar to suggest that you are a foreign bred, American hating liberal, eh?

Sure, having a dog definitely proves that....

 

[Seawytch]

I'm not teaching my kids that gays are "icky"...So get off that bullshit, and quit playing that fuckin' victim card.

Okay...so what WOULD you be "teaching" them that is contrary to what a school might address?

I don't have a problem with teaching tolerance. It should be taught. But it is a fact that many teachers take it beyond it that......Case in point, Heather has two mommy's. Fine, Heather has two mommy's. Some kids have two mommies or daddy's, and that should be tolerated and not used against them. What happens though, is you have teachers who take it beyond that, and start teaching that it's just a wonderful thing. That it should be widely accepted as perfectly normal by everybody.....Well, a kids religion may teach them differently, and it's not up to the schools to teach the virtues of it all.....I'm speaking in terms of personal experience. Our twin daughters came home asking all kinds of bizarre questions about religion and politics when they were 6 year olds. Their teacher (who was eventually fired as a result of our actions and several other parents actions) was continually shoving BS left wing talking points down their throats. It was far out of the realm of what children should be taught. One parent attached a long play digital voice recorder to her kids backpack to see if she could find out what was going on. Because her son too was asking all kinds of weird shit. What was recorded was appalling. It was nothing but a bunch of anti-war, anti-bush, anti- establishment BS....When we sat with the superintendent and listened to it, everybody was blown away...And we would have been just as pissed if it were the opposite being shoved down their throats....Unfortunately, this happens far too often in our public schools. More than people want to admit.....It's why our kids were yanked and put into private school.

Ah, so you are generalizing based on your alleged personal experience. Brilliant!

You are making claims with nothing to back you up. You can SAY that it "happens far too often in our public schools", but can provide no evidence of it happening "far too often" in our public schools. Your rant about a disreputable teacher (that also got fired right?) has nothing to do with the subject and you didn't mention a SINGLE THING that related to gay and lesbian relationships.

If your 6 year old went to school with another 6 year old whose parents are gay, what would you "teach" them? What if your child went to school with a transgendered or gay child...what would you "teach" them?

 

[Seawytch]

Funny you mention that. A 5 year old isn't yet old enough to understand that picking boogers and rolling them into lil' balls just isn't cool or funny.......So yeah, you can CLAIM they fully understand, doesn't mean it's true.

And don't preach to me what "kids can understand"......We have three kids. Twin 11 year old daughters, and a soon to be 6 year old adopted son who is special needs. He'll most likely never develop mentally enough to understand any of this. Our daughters are fully aware and understand everything.

I have two kids and they went to school with other kids that didn't have a problem understanding that my kids have two moms and that it is no different than them having a mom and dad...even in preschool. Give kids more credit...they get love.

 

[Seawytch]

So only "wild-eyed" leftists can mock Ayn Rand? ROFLMAO

Only wild eyed leftists would attempt to. After all, only a fool mocks what they don't comprehend.

Nah, Ayn Randians are mocked by just about everybody, wild eyed leftists and conservatives alike.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What special privileges are those?

You're not the sharpest marshmallow in the bag...

Billy couldn't ride a bicycle - never tried really.

Billy didn't like being called a baby by the big kids because he couldn't ride a bike.

So Billy got his daddy to donate to the Democrats and have bicycles redefined to include tricycles. (dims will do ANYTHING for a bribe!)

 

[Uncensored2008]

Okay, this idea of "defining" and "redefining" marriage is big for you, so I have a recommendation. How about we leave the "defining" of marriage to the religious institutions? We'll get rid of "marriage" in the legal sense, we'll allow civil unions for all couples, regardless of orientation, for the legal questions of inheritance, power of attorney, etc, and we'll eliminate any and all tax advantages for either the married or the civilly joined. How does that sound?

You catch on slowly, but it appears you eventually catch on.

I stated half a dozen pages back that I preferred the federal and state governments completely out of marriage.

 

[Seawytch]

Okay, this idea of "defining" and "redefining" marriage is big for you, so I have a recommendation. How about we leave the "defining" of marriage to the religious institutions? We'll get rid of "marriage" in the legal sense, we'll allow civil unions for all couples, regardless of orientation, for the legal questions of inheritance, power of attorney, etc, and we'll eliminate any and all tax advantages for either the married or the civilly joined. How does that sound?

You catch on slowly, but it appears you eventually catch on.

I stated half a dozen pages back that I preferred the federal and state governments completely out of marriage.

Was it also pointed out what an unrealistic expectation that is? You are NEVER going to pry the benefits associated with legal marriage away from people.

Now, I'm all for re-labeling legal civil marriage and call ALL of them "civil unions" if that is the "marriage" granted by the government. Anyone wishing to get legally "married" will get a civil union and you can go to a religious institution to get "married".( We gays already have equal access to religious marriage). Guess what tho'? Everyone will still call it "marriage"

 

[Seawytch]

What special privileges are those?

You're not the sharpest marshmallow in the bag...

Billy couldn't ride a bicycle - never tried really.

Billy didn't like being called a baby by the big kids because he couldn't ride a bike.

So Billy got his daddy to donate to the Democrats and have bicycles redefined to include tricycles. (dims will do ANYTHING for a bribe!)

So, in other words, you can't come up with any of these "special privileges". Typical.

This is why the anti-gay marriage folks keep losing in court. There is simply no logical reason to prevent gays and lesbians from having equal access to legal, civil marriage. (at least not that adheres to a reasonable person standard)

 

[Uncensored2008]

Was it also pointed out what an unrealistic expectation that is? You are NEVER going to pry the benefits associated with legal marriage away from people.

Irrelevant.

I'll never pry government workers away from feeding at the public trough - doesn't mean I shouldn't oppose them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So, in other words, you can't come up with any of these "special privileges". Typical.

How stupid.

Hopefully you can do better.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Okay...so what WOULD you be "teaching" them that is contrary to what a school might address?



Ah, so you are generalizing based on your alleged personal experience. Brilliant!

You are making claims with nothing to back you up. You can SAY that it "happens far too often in our public schools", but can provide no evidence of it happening "far too often" in our public schools. Your rant about a disreputable teacher (that also got fired right?) has nothing to do with the subject and you didn't mention a SINGLE THING that related to gay and lesbian relationships.

If your 6 year old went to school with another 6 year old whose parents are gay, what would you "teach" them? What if your child went to school with a transgendered or gay child...what would you "teach" them?

Oh, there's plenty of evidence of what goes on in many public schools. I'm not in the mood to go looking for it all, it's been presented on this board, MANY TIMES. We've covered that subject until it's beaten into a dead horse up here.........Go research, you'll find the same.

WE have and would teach our kids that there is nothing wrong with those kids whose parents are gay. They should be treated just like every other kid..... We have and would teach them that the gay or transgender students should also be treated just like every other kid............And that's all the schools need to be teaching.

I'll offer my kids my opinion on what I think about the sex aspect when they can fully understand the full implications of it all. I'm not going to lie to my kids about my beliefs. I'm going to tell them that I believe that sex between two of the same sex is perverted to the core. And i'll tell them exactly why I believe that. I'll tell them that I don't fully believe in gays raising children in that environment...I want more in depth studies on the far reaching effects to those children, before I throw my support behind it.....So far, there has only really been small scale studies. Some supporting of it, others not so much.......It's really a basically new concept. It's not widespread. I'm not going to use two examples of people on this board to form my final decision, for obvious reasons......That's my beliefs, like 'em or not. And they will not be hidden from my children out of the PC bullshit.