God the Father

[Meriweather]

I'm not demanding anything, I'm simply asking why a loving god would make deformed. retarded and /or in pain babies? I'd simply like to know god's reason for putting little kids through that?

That is like asking why a pound of lead floats. It does not, and continuing to ask why it does, does not make it so. God does not make deformed babies.

We, His creation, wanted a physical life where we could experience both what is good and what is bad. We wanted that knowledge. God allowed that, and we are in a physical world where such things happen. Deformity does not affect God's love for a person, and nor do illness and pain--no matter when and how they enter one's life. His care for our spirit's well-being is always present. We who have a physical existence take on the responsibility to love and care for those who are physically deformed (often times age deforms and causes pain, it doesn't just happen to babies). Our goal is to bring love and caring to the physical world to match how it is in heaven (or the spiritual world).

 

[Meriweather]

''why does 'rational science and 'objective Nature' make deformed babies", well, they don't.

Science and nature are not entities with a personality, feelings, emotions, will or intent as religionists assign to their gods.

I will agree the more accurate question is, Why do deformities occur in the physical world (nature)? And, What causes them?

It is silly for people who do not believe in God to say, "God did it." It also reminds me that it was people of faith who were among the first to find causes in nature and genetics because they knew the answer was not, "God did it."

 

[Meriweather]

Because he is a psychopath.
Lets not forget, this the same loving and forgiving god that sent his cult to murder children because they got raped

Or based on the written accounts, another conclusion(s) may also be reached.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm waiting for a plausible answer,

We are waiting for a plausible question, not something equal to, "Why does a pound of lead float?"

 

[TNHarley]

Sure, if it were my kid, I would love it and try to help, even if that meant Kevorkian style. It still doesn't take away the maker's actions to have made someone so deformed and in constant pain.

Taz, by now you know that I have done much research and reading in my life. The main reason I hold mobs with contempt and disdain is because it was a mob who burned the library in Alexandria and so much was lost about ancient times.

But with what remains--including the Bible--an ancient philosophy that crops up is that there is a heavenly earth. Also, the story of Adam and Eve is not just a story about two people. It is the story of every man and every woman since the beginning of time to this day. We here tales of a heavenly Eden where each man and each woman make a choice. Do we wish to only experience a heavenly Eden and only know what is good--or do we wish to experience and gain knowledge of both good and evil. We here on earth are those who wanted/chose to know both. We wanted a physical life which meant the pain of physical birth--and births that did not always go well; we wanted to make our own way which meant tilling and hunting the land; it meant the petty spats and jealousies that could lead to murder and war. It meant coveting what others had. However, we did not just want to know bad, we truly wanted to experience good as well, we want good to prevail--or most of us do.

Genesis is not a story of two people messing it up for the rest of us. It is the story of you, the story of me. And you will kill a deformed baby other than let either of you suffer the pain of its existence. You (and many others) call that good because you see evil in the pain and the deformity. I am not saying you are wrong. But others (me among them) see good in deformity and have the strength to bear pain. We see good in living. And I will bet you will not say that we are wrong. We are here to learn about and to experience both good and evil. It was an individual choice we made before birth. Or, at least that is the philosophy of many ancients and even some today.

You still didn't answer why god makes deformed and in pain babies...

Because he is a psychopath.
Lets not forget, this the same loving and forgiving god that sent his cult to murder children because they got raped or their dad sucked a dick.

You seem angry. It's not God's fault or ours.

Im not angry. Just speaking truth.
"Youre angry" or "you mad" is such a cliche response. Thats when you know you have nothing.

You won't be convincing me anytime soon. I know better.

So keep making your inflammatory remarks in the hope it makes you feel better about yourself. I wish you the best of luck.

Its humorous you ignore what I said and are instead focusing on something you made up in your head
What a joke you are

Oh so it's just a joke. Right.

At any point in your life you are the sum of your choices. Behaviors can't be flipped off and on so easily like a light switch.

Lol good lord

 

[TNHarley]

Because he is a psychopath.
Lets not forget, this the same loving and forgiving god that sent his cult to murder children because they got raped

Or based on the written accounts, another conclusion(s) may also be reached.

what conclusion is that?

 

[Hollie]

Why does 'rational science' and 'objective Nature' make deformed babies? In other news, such rubbish arguments as Taz's and Hollie's are based on pagan materialism, and pagan materialists always demand gods that perform magic tricks on demand; they never read any of the books, but then claim they know al about them and what is in them and what they say.

Taz and Hollie have no belief in God. They simply imagine what we believe about God. Despite my simple statement of "God does not make deformed babies" they continue to imagine we believe God (in whom the have no belief at all) makes deformed babies.

I have quoted Isaiah to both before: Listen carefully, but you will not understand; look intently but you will not see. Like Pharaoh's heart, the more we point out the actuality of our beliefs, the more hearts are hardened and inclined to simply imagine what we must believe.

Hollie, “speaking” in the third person of course, understands that people’s perceptions of their gods are as varied as there are believers. Hollie understands that when people “quote” from the Bible, they tend to assign their subjective interpretations to the “quotes”.

Hollie would suggest that her heart pumps blood as opposed to being hardened by lack of partisan religious beliefs. Your beliefs are your own. There’s no reason to be defensive and reactionary when people challenge those beliefs. Hurling Bible verses isn’t a rational response to legitimate disagreement about the natural world vs. alleged supernatural realms occupied by supernatural “souls” and gods.

What, specifically, is there to understand about your gods vs. all the other claims to gods? What makes your gods extant to the exclusion of other gods? What separates the verses in your holy text from those of all the other holy texts?

 

[Taz]

So why did god make science in such a way that we have deformed, suffering babies?

I am sorry you cannot love or care for deformed babies--and that is the only thing you see--the physical beauty someone or something has or does not have. Why didn't God make you more loving and caring? Because you get to create that in yourself. And you appear to believe a caring person would destroy what is deformed.

You avoid the question because you obviously have no answer as to why a loving god would make deformed, pain-racked babies. I don't understand it either.

He doesn't.

Seems like she answered it to me.

When it comes to being a one trick pony you are just like hobelim and breezewood. You just each have a different pony.

You don’t know either why god makes deformed and in pain babies. You just think that it’s cool that he does. Maybe you better stfu.

Why does 'rational science' and 'objective Nature' make deformed babies? In other news, such rubbish arguments as Taz's and Hollie's are based on pagan materialism, and pagan materialists always demand gods that perform magic tricks on demand; they never read any of the books, but then claim they know al about them and what is in them and what they say.

I'm not demanding anything, I'm simply asking why a loving god would make deformed. retarded and /or in pain babies? I'd simply like to know god's reason for putting little kids through that?

But you have asked that question a thousand times and its been answered a thousand times.

So you simply wanting to know is a lie, Taz.

I'm waiting for a plausible answer, not some repeated word salad.

No. You aren't. Tell me some of the answers you found implausible in your many times of asking the same question over and over again, Taz.

"God is teaching us a lesson by making people suffer really badly. " No sane person would see that as normal.
"Accept the bad with the good." I accept it, I just want to know why god does that. There should be a reason, no?
"Why do I expect no bad shit?" I don't I just want to know specifically why god is torturing little children.

 

[Taz]

I'm not demanding anything, I'm simply asking why a loving god would make deformed. retarded and /or in pain babies? I'd simply like to know god's reason for putting little kids through that?

That is like asking why a pound of lead floats. It does not, and continuing to ask why it does, does not make it so. God does not make deformed babies.

We, His creation, wanted a physical life where we could experience both what is good and what is bad. We wanted that knowledge. God allowed that, and we are in a physical world where such things happen. Deformity does not affect God's love for a person, and nor do illness and pain--no matter when and how they enter one's life. His care for our spirit's well-being is always present. We who have a physical existence take on the responsibility to love and care for those who are physically deformed (often times age deforms and causes pain, it doesn't just happen to babies). Our goal is to bring love and caring to the physical world to match how it is in heaven (or the spiritual world).

God allows children to be tortured in his creation. You don't know why, and neither do I, that's why I'm asking. You're response completely ignores the children being tortured non-stop.

 

[Taz]

I'm waiting for a plausible answer,

We are waiting for a plausible question, not something equal to, "Why does a pound of lead float?"

Why does god's creation contain babies that are tortured with deformities and constant pain?

 

[Hollie]

''why does 'rational science and 'objective Nature' make deformed babies", well, they don't.

Science and nature are not entities with a personality, feelings, emotions, will or intent as religionists assign to their gods.

I will agree the more accurate question is, Why do deformities occur in the physical world (nature)? And, What causes them?

It is silly for people who do not believe in God to say, "God did it." It also reminds me that it was people of faith who were among the first to find causes in nature and genetics because they knew the answer was not, "God did it."

I recall it was 8th grade biology when we began to learn about DNA, cell division and even external factors that can cause birth defects. I recall a great deal of time spent learning about the affects of smoking and / or alcohol on a developing fetus. No amount of prayer is going to mitigate unhealthy habits during pregnancy.

It was not exclusively people of faith who were among the first to study nature and genetics. It certainly was people of faith in the Christian religious institutions who the most ruthless purveyors of suppressing the study of nature and genetics.

Can you identify the religious institutions, the various creation ministries for example, which are performing testing and experiments and submitting their work for peer review? Is it Answers in Genesis which is doing work in paleontology or is it those evilutionist atheists?

 

[Hollie]

I'm waiting for a plausible answer,

We are waiting for a plausible question, not something equal to, "Why does a pound of lead float?"

Here’s a plausible question. You wrote earlier: “We, His creation, wanted a physical life where we could experience both what is good and what is bad”.

let’s look at a plausible question. Who is the “we” that you claim are “his creation”? Are people of competing religions a part of your collection of “we”? That seems implausible and arrogant to assume that people with a competing “he” are subordinate to your “he” or that they are necessarily wrong and you are right.

There was a substantial portion of humanity that has come and gone, not ruled by your gods which apparently never made any proclamation indicating they “wanted a physical life where we could experience both what is good and what is bad”. A substantial portion of humanity lived in a time before the existence of your gods and they struggled to survive a life that was hard and unforgiving, where the ebb and flow of life was dictated by a sometimes cruel and unforgiving nature.

 

[Meriweather]

what conclusion is that?

I first truly studied that account when I was also majoring in journalism and covering local politics. For me, the two "political parties" of the time leaped forward. First, there was no separation of Church and State. Second, the two factions seemed to be those who aligned themselves with the Priests, and those who aligned themselves with the King and his men.

The Priests remembered the days when the Chosen People, The People Set Apart, were attacked and killed when they were hungry, exhausted, and were looking for sustenance. They also saw that when The People Set Apart began to mix with other cultures, they readily adopted and accepted the ways of that culture (including idol worship). To keep the people pure of heart, the priests determined every last person and item of those who were not with them had to be exterminated. They determined this had to be the will of God in order to keep the people Set Apart.

Meanwhile, the King (Saul), wanted a more peaceable arrangement with the people already settled in the region. He did what he could to spare them, and this infuriated the Priests who then plotted (and succeeded) in having David replace him. The victors, of course, got to write history, and David was praised while Saul vilified as the one who disobeyed God. I never liked David. He wasn't even the one who slew Goliath, but he took (or got) credit for it.

God works with what happens, with whatever man does. While Jews to this day have a much higher opinion of Jacob and David, I have always had a soft place in my heart for Esau and Saul--one the rightful heir; the other the rightful king. I wonder what God might have worked through these two if humans who were in power here on earth had actually trusted God rather than their own egos and wishes.

Never lose sight of the fact that the Bible was written by man even though it was inspired by God. The Bible tells us more how mankind has reacted to what God started (continuing in disobedience) while God picks up the pieces and moves us on. We all know in our hearts there should have been no such rape and massacre, therefore the proper question is not, "Why did God do it?" but "Why did we do it?" Note, we always seem to reassure ourselves it is what God would want.

In fairness to Jewish belief: It is also quite true that what the Hebrews did to those people was only about a tenth of what had been done to them. They considered it a well deserved punishment that was merciful when compared to what had been done to them. In fact, look what the Nazis did to the Jews closer to our time. It would be like us, today, taking great exception had a Jew dared to slap or kick a Nazi. So I also keep in mind it may well have been for the very best for Jacob and David being brought forward as leaders. We don't know everything, indeed we know very little. Esau and Saul could have led humanity to unmitigated disaster, while we know Jacob and David (though imperfect) brought about many blessings.

 

[Meriweather]

It was not exclusively people of faith who were among the first to study nature and genetics. It certainly was people of faith in the Christian religious institutions who the most ruthless purveyors of suppressing the study of nature and genetics.

Wrong.

 

[Meriweather]

No amount of prayer is going to mitigate unhealthy habits during pregnancy.

Correct.

 

[Hollie]

It was not exclusively people of faith who were among the first to study nature and genetics. It certainly was people of faith in the Christian religious institutions who the most ruthless purveyors of suppressing the study of nature and genetics.

Wrong.

Oh. Well, if you say so.

Didn’t the Church of England suppress the works of many of the great thinkers, mathematicians, astronomers? Something to do with the Dark Ages?

I though I read that somewhere.

 

[Hollie]

It was not exclusively people of faith who were among the first to study nature and genetics. It certainly was people of faith in the Christian religious institutions who the most ruthless purveyors of suppressing the study of nature and genetics.

Wrong.

Galileo Galilei

 

[Meriweather]

let’s look at a plausible question. Who is the “we” that you claim are “his creation”? Are people of competing religions a part of your collection of “we”? That seems implausible and arrogant to assume that people with a competing “he” are subordinate to your “he” or that they are necessarily wrong and you’re are right.

As I mentioned before, it is decades of study, not arrogance. I am merely offering what philosophers (many of them Greek) as well as Biblical scholars (mostly taken from Rabbis and other Hebrew writings) have brought forward. Of myself, I know little. One of the lines of their thoughts is that there is the more perfect spirit world that earth tries to emulate. Some even wonder if the original Eden occurred in the Spirit Eden, and have presented logic for this theory.

There is my line of reasoning of keeping in mind all that could/might have happened, and the reasoning of, Impossible! None of it happened!

You keep jumping to erroneous conclusions about my beliefs--not to mention my moods and intent.

 

[Meriweather]

Galileo Galilei

Yes. The Church had no problem with Galileo's theory. The problem was that Galileo was insisting the Bible be changed. What say you? Should Galileo have been allowed to rewrite Biblical passages?

Galileo lived in a time where there were very few books, and he wanted a way to get proper/new information out. Therefore, he wanted to change the Bible. He could not have foreseen the day where there would be more books and articles about his theory than there are Bibles.

 

[Hollie]

let’s look at a plausible question. Who is the “we” that you claim are “his creation”? Are people of competing religions a part of your collection of “we”? That seems implausible and arrogant to assume that people with a competing “he” are subordinate to your “he” or that they are necessarily wrong and you’re are right.

As I mentioned before, it is decades of study, not arrogance. I am merely offering what philosophers (many of them Greek) as well as Biblical scholars (mostly taken from Rabbis and other Hebrew writings) have brought forward. Of myself, I know little. One of the lines of their thoughts is that there is the more perfect spirit world that earth tries to emulate. Some even wonder if the original Eden occurred in the Spirit Eden, and have presented logic for this theory.

There is my line of reasoning of keeping in mind all that could/might have happened, and the reasoning of, Impossible! None of it happened!

You keep jumping to erroneous conclusions about my beliefs--not to mention my moods and intent.

Your references are to Judeo-Christianity. That would likely be the culturally appropriate religion managed by the culturally appropriate gods. That didn’t address the question of why earlier gods or different gods would be or should be subordinate to your “he” gods.