God punishes but eternity in hell?

[bigtalker]

Ahhhh…. Just one more thing….
I found this site in a search about heaven and hell
The American Christian Society - Home says:
Basically they are saying something like: it goes against the nature of God to put someone in hell and not give them hope or any chance to change and seek forgiveness. – I think

As a Christian I always struggled with this idea of a permanent hell but don’t know if it is okay to really believe against it.

Any opinions out there about this…?

Danke und Tschüß!!

 

[Mr Natural]

It does seem a bit extreme.

A guy who willingly ate a baloney sandwich on a Friday before they changed the rules and died with that mortal sin on his soul is now serving all of eternity in hell with the likes of Hitler.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm not an authority, but seems to me little different than the 'born again' theory, you know, where a 'christian' can claim they have accepted Jesus and be immediately forgiven of past behavior.
If God exists, and if God created all humanity in his image, then anyone who kills, harms, injures, hates, discriminates against another human being is fucked - for ever.

 

[uscitizen]

God or Jesus?
Are not Christians supposed to live Christlike lives?

 

[FreeSpirit]

People get a life-time to choose whether or not they truly want to be sold out to God and have a relationship with Him, or if they want to live for their own pleasure and however they please. There are consequences at the end of your days, and that's how it goes.

If you can't live for Him, by the choice of your own free will , right now, then the only reason you would choose Him once you get to Hell, is because you're in torment, and of course you want God then, but you didn't before you were there. So now your choice to want God is probably based on the torment and pain you feel, not because it is...or ever was... truly desired.


Therefore, I don't think it's so unrealistic to think of people forever in a place where there is no God and never will be. Rejecting God has serious and eternal consequences. His grace is sufficient, but after people reject Him long enough, I'm pretty sure his patience runs out, too.

 

[bigtalker]

but after people reject Him long enough, I'm pretty sure his patience runs out, too.

ahhh...one more thing... to think about...
This sounds like it goes against God... all loving, forgiving...
BTW - I wasn't allways a Christian - so If I died before salvation I guess to bad for me...?

 

[bigtalker]

God or Jesus?
Are not Christians supposed to live Christlike lives?

Yes, Christians should be Christ like – but all fall short.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I've always had a bit of a problem with the whole "damnation for eternity thing".

First off, John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosovever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life." That doesn't promise eternity, it promises forever from the beginning point of your birth.

In order for you to be somewhere "for eternity", you would have had to be here before you were born and here long after you die. No.........people don't go to hell for eternity. If you have a belly button, you have a beginning, and therefore are not eternal.

Additionally, it states in the Torah that around the 40 day point of your conception, God carves off a small piece of Himself from under His Throne of Glory with the blade of self will, and places that into the embryo created by your parents. That is what you know as your "soul".

Now........if we're all a small piece of God, why would He throw us away?

Nope, got news for y'all.........EVERYONE eventually gets out of hell. Even Hitler.

 

[Wry Catcher]

People get a life-time to choose whether or not they truly want to be sold out to God and have a relationship with Him, or if they want to live for their own pleasure and however they please. There are consequences at the end of your days, and that's how it goes.

If you can't live for Him, by the choice of your own free will , right now, then the only reason you would choose Him once you get to Hell, is because you're in torment, and of course you want God then, but you didn't before you were there. So now your choice to want God is probably based on the torment and pain you feel, not because it is...or ever was... truly desired.


Therefore, I don't think it's so unrealistic to think of people forever in a place where there is no God and never will be. Rejecting God has serious and eternal consequences. His grace is sufficient, but after people reject Him long enough, I'm pretty sure his patience runs out, too.

Please review the final line in my signature. In my (possibly ignorant) opinion, as an agnotic, it seems to me if you're correct Hell will need to be a very very very large place. Heaven on the other hand might fit on the head of a pin.

 

[bigtalker]

You know, I've always had a bit of a problem with the whole "damnation for eternity thing".

First off, John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosovever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life." That doesn't promise eternity, it promises forever from the beginning point of your birth.

In order for you to be somewhere "for eternity", you would have had to be here before you were born and here long after you die. No.........people don't go to hell for eternity. If you have a belly button, you have a beginning, and therefore are not eternal.

Additionally, it states in the Torah that around the 40 day point of your conception, God carves off a small piece of Himself from under His Throne of Glory with the blade of self will, and places that into the embryo created by your parents. That is what you know as your "soul".

Now........if we're all a small piece of God, why would He throw us away?

Nope, got news for y'all.........EVERYONE eventually gets out of hell. Even Hitler.

wow good post - I appreciate the comments - gives me a lot to think about
ah... just one more thing... why do you type "even Hitler"...?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I've always had a bit of a problem with the whole "damnation for eternity thing".

First off, John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosovever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life." That doesn't promise eternity, it promises forever from the beginning point of your birth.

In order for you to be somewhere "for eternity", you would have had to be here before you were born and here long after you die. No.........people don't go to hell for eternity. If you have a belly button, you have a beginning, and therefore are not eternal.

Additionally, it states in the Torah that around the 40 day point of your conception, God carves off a small piece of Himself from under His Throne of Glory with the blade of self will, and places that into the embryo created by your parents. That is what you know as your "soul".

Now........if we're all a small piece of God, why would He throw us away?

Nope, got news for y'all.........EVERYONE eventually gets out of hell. Even Hitler.

wow good post - I appreciate the comments - gives me a lot to think about
ah... just one more thing... why do you type "even Hitler"...?

Because, Hitler is the single most abhorrent person in modern times. I could have said Julius Cesar, Nero, Genghis Kahn, Torquemada or any other person who did really horrific things.

Basically, my point is that no matter who you are, what you've done, eventually, you're going to rejoin God and be in Heaven.

Incidentally, hell (in it's current incarnation) is a myth invented by the Catholic church, because they knew that fear would motivate people to keep coming back, filling the pews and giving money.

Hmm........using fear to control people and raise money........kinda like what the GOP does today.

 

[bigtalker]

You know, I've always had a bit of a problem with the whole "damnation for eternity thing".

First off, John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosovever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life." That doesn't promise eternity, it promises forever from the beginning point of your birth.

In order for you to be somewhere "for eternity", you would have had to be here before you were born and here long after you die. No.........people don't go to hell for eternity. If you have a belly button, you have a beginning, and therefore are not eternal.

Additionally, it states in the Torah that around the 40 day point of your conception, God carves off a small piece of Himself from under His Throne of Glory with the blade of self will, and places that into the embryo created by your parents. That is what you know as your "soul".

Now........if we're all a small piece of God, why would He throw us away?

Nope, got news for y'all.........EVERYONE eventually gets out of hell. Even Hitler.

wow good post - I appreciate the comments - gives me a lot to think about
ah... just one more thing... why do you type "even Hitler"...?

Because, Hitler is the single most abhorrent person in modern times. I could have said Julius Cesar, Nero, Genghis Kahn, Torquemada or any other person who did really horrific things.

Basically, my point is that no matter who you are, what you've done, eventually, you're going to rejoin God and be in Heaven.

Incidentally, hell (in it's current incarnation) is a myth invented by the Catholic church, because they knew that fear would motivate people to keep coming back, filling the pews and giving money.

Hmm........using fear to control people and raise money........kinda like what the GOP does today.

wow- total spitz - I like the way you think! not afraid to ? things

I like your comment about man using fear - very true

I realize I may get my head jerked off for this next part but I don't know that Hitler was as evil as history says... anyway maybe I should not put that... I just ? the whole 6million thing

 

[FreeSpirit]

but after people reject Him long enough, I'm pretty sure his patience runs out, too.

ahhh...one more thing... to think about...
This sounds like it goes against God... all loving, forgiving...
BTW - I wasn't allways a Christian - so If I died before salvation I guess to bad for me...?

God is all-loving. Because someone goes to Hell does not mean He doesn't love them anymore, but they chose not to serve Him, after He had given them many opportunities. He is all forgiving, but if you don't ask for forgiveness and accept Christ into your heart, then you're not just gonna forgiven. Because it goes something like this ...."For anyone who asks....receives..."

People get a life-time to choose whether or not they truly want to be sold out to God and have a relationship with Him, or if they want to live for their own pleasure and however they please. There are consequences at the end of your days, and that's how it goes.

If you can't live for Him, by the choice of your own free will , right now, then the only reason you would choose Him once you get to Hell, is because you're in torment, and of course you want God then, but you didn't before you were there. So now your choice to want God is probably based on the torment and pain you feel, not because it is...or ever was... truly desired.


Therefore, I don't think it's so unrealistic to think of people forever in a place where there is no God and never will be. Rejecting God has serious and eternal consequences. His grace is sufficient, but after people reject Him long enough, I'm pretty sure his patience runs out, too.

Please review the final line in my signature. In my (possibly ignorant) opinion, as an agnotic, it seems to me if you're correct Hell will need to be a very very very large place. Heaven on the other hand might fit on the head of a pin.

The final line in your signature is interesting. I'm not sure if you're talking about Christian people in general, or you're putting that in a category of all religions, because more or less, they all use the term "God".


However, back to the original subject.


Like I said in my OP, God's grace is sufficient, and I am under the impression that He has a lot of patience and mercy, but people have a choice about whether to choose Him or not. I also believe that it's very possible that more people get into Heaven than we even know.

But I'm just saying, if at the end of your life, you have chosen not to believe in God and He hasn't become real to you, then Hell is possibly the place to go. For good. I don't claim to know everything about God, or be some expert on how He works, but that's just how I think it would/and does happen, and I could be wrong...I'm open to being wrong.

And it says "whosoever believes on Him shall have everlasting life". Many people don't believe in Him, and so they never come to have a personal relationship with Him. It's not about religion, how much you go to church, or anything along those lines, it's relationship and acceptance of who He is and what He did.

So I make Heaven sound harder to get to, and it may just possibly be, because following a life of the flesh and living by that is so much easier than walking by the Spirit and laying down fleshly things(Romans 8), but in the end, Yahweh(God), is the ultimate judge, and only He truly knows the heart of each and every individual He created.

 

[Montrovant]

The concept of a loving, forgiving god and a hell of eternal suffering are mutually exclusive, IMO.

The idea that if you choose wrongly in the tiny amount of time that is a human lifetime, you will be damned to never-ending torment is ridiculous. Not only is any human lifetime an extraordinarily small amount of time, each lifetime lasts for a different duration. So, while someone may live for 80 years before 'finding god' or being 'saved', another person may die at 20 before having the same opportunity. If there is a god, and that being is willing to condemn the 20-year-old to never-ending suffering, such a god is not loving and merciful as we define those terms.

The idea that one can still find salvation after going to hell makes more sense to me. That, or that god is not loving and merciful (which, honestly, makes more sense to me yet. I've never thought god being ascribed all these human emotions made much sense). I find it hard to believe that there is a god using the decisions of a single lifetime to determine our eternal disposition, whatever the criteria or location.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know.......think of it this way...........

People who abuse their bodies tend to have poor health, sometimes requiring medicine or even surgery (i.e. diabetes).

Now..........is the person at fault for causing their disease? Yes. They didn't take care of themselves.

Now..........think about your soul and the various things you do on a daily basis to be hurtful, cruel or just plain unpleasant. Those things (your "sins" if you will) eat at your soul a bit more each day, until finally, your spirit is in really bad shape.

Then......when you leave your meat suit and go before Father, He's gonna look at what you've done to yourself over the course of your life, and more importantly.......what did you learn? After He finds out the damage that you've done to that little bit of Himself that He gave you (The Torah refers to this), He then puts you in surgery, gives you medicine, and helps you heal so that you can rejoin Him.

Everyone gets into Heaven, it's just a question of how much do you need to heal first?

 

[ABikerSailor]

By the way..........seems that Christians are really big on the fear thing.

Why else do you think they show Yeshua in pain and nailed to a cross instead of showing Him either before or after He was crucified.

Only trouble is.............fear has its limits as a motivating force.

 

[fyrenza]

I haven't read even the first post of this thread, but THIS:

If you want to be left alone?

ALL ALONE?

You already know what hell is,

and if that's all you would aspire to?

Aloneness?

We ALL have that, and we don't even have to ask, mofo.

Sometimes? It just IS.

THAT's what separates us :

I DO NOT want that for eternity;

I CHOOSE to know and try to understand, while I'm still here, so that if it ANY of it is left up to ME?

NO ONE will be Left Behind.

LOVE is; Love counts; even if you were wrong about WHO? It only mattered how you FELT,

THAT depth, length, breadth.

LOVE is, also.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Ahhhh…. Just one more thing….
I found this site in a search about heaven and hell
The American Christian Society - Home says:
Basically they are saying something like: it goes against the nature of God to put someone in hell and not give them hope or any chance to change and seek forgiveness. – I think

As a Christian I always struggled with this idea of a permanent hell but don’t know if it is okay to really believe against it.

Any opinions out there about this…?

Danke und Tschüß!!

People chose to be outside the
presence of God ,Thats not punishment for those who disbelieve or dont accept.
Do Blame God for giving you what you ask for.

 

[fyrenza]

[

People chose to be outside the
presence of God ,Thats not punishment for those who disbelieve or dont accept.
Do Blame God for giving you what you ask for.

I came to Him, late in my life.

All I've ever asked for from Him?

His will.

THAT's my bottom line prayer; for all that I could ask about this, that or the other?

I WANT His will to be done.

I know that I don't think nor see like He does.

The underside of the petite point convinced me of that.

I see the UNDERSIDE of the Big Pic, and it looks like shit ~ threads, going every which way, no real motif, no true STRUCTURE;

but on the OTHER side? It's a PATTERN.

Take some hallucinations,

and LOOK AT THE PATTERNS that you WILL be shown.

There IS a pattern,

a GORGEOUS picture that Will be described, at the end of the effort.

We just don't see it, from the bottom. It looks like a MESS ~

threads tangled, no clear pic,

and we wallow in a need to TRY to make something right,

in our lifetimes, in some sort of reality,

but the ONLY thing we make "right?"

Is our love of our fellow beans.

I love you, and if THAT can take you to the place I plan to go?

You're fucking THERE!

 

[Wingsofwind]

I'm not an authority, but seems to me little different than the 'born again' theory, you know, where a 'christian' can claim they have accepted Jesus and be immediately forgiven of past behavior.
If God exists, and if God created all humanity in his image, then anyone who kills, harms, injures, hates, discriminates against another human being is fucked - for ever.

The true 'born again' theory is not where someone 'accepts' Christ, it is where the Lord opens the persons hearts and changes them. Like the story of Lazarus being quickened(brought back to life) by Christ. It is the Lord doing it NOT the person. Salvation is of the Lord not of ourselves.