Genetic studies on Palestinians and Israelis

[Sally]

You must have an IQ of less than 40. I have highlighted the journals. I can't do more for you. You are wasting my time.

You have highlighted nothing that the top geneticists in the world read. In fact, an important thing like this and the conferences involved would also covered by the major newspapers Put this to bed already. Your brethren are not going to be allowed back into Israel to take over. Has anyone read anything about this in their newspapers? The other week I was reading something about the Hispanics being comprised of many different backgrounds. I have also read in the past about some Hispanics in the American Southwest sending in samples of their DNA and many of them are finding out that they have Jewish roots when their ancestors fled Spain. BUT, nothing about the Arabs really being Jews. My goodness, this would be some hot topic for major newspapers in America and Europe to cover if it was true.

Sally...."Human Genetics" happens to be one of the scholarly publications that the top geneticists in the world PUBLISH their research in. You're not doing yourself any favors here...you might want to just quietly...give it up?

Major newspapers seldom cover major science - they cover pop science.

Strange how Coyote doesn't mind Amity spamming her genetics shtick!!! Maybe Coyote is also looking forward to the Arabs coming into Israel en masse to take over the country. Perhaps Coyote can tell us of any conferences where top geneticists in their field attended to discuss this important finding. After all, when something new is discovered in any scientific field, you read about conferences all the time, not only in your own newspaper but also on the Internet news. In fact, on the AOL Health News, many different scientific confererences are discussed and what the top experts are saying about new developments. Meanwhile, Coyote, my newspaper has a science section where the readers can learn near things that are happening. This "important finding," since it appears that Israel is on the minds of so many people today to the detriment of the terrible things happening to others, would be discussed all over Europe and America and we would be seeing it in the news.

 

[amity1844]

Because it is being suppressed, as I told you. Israel freaked out and brought pressure to bear.

 

[Roudy]

Ugh! Where did you get that story?

if you look at the scientific work, it is more about a conversion process.

I don't really understand why this is so hard for you all to accept.

Why would Jews convert from a Progressive religion like Judaism to a Regressive religion like Islam.
Jewish women have tons of rights, don't have to walk behind their husbands and can't murder their wives for burning dinner.
You obviously know nothing about Jews.
Heck, even our women can protest and not be beheaded.

You truly are dull witted.

 

[Sally]

Because it is being suppressed, as I told you. Israel freaked out and brought pressure to bear.

Make excuses all you want. A big story like this would not be surpressed. By now it would have been around the world ten times via the Internet if it were true.

 

[amity1844]

It has been, Sally. I told you it was on a television program in Israel. There is an entire nascent peace movement growing out of this. You Tube has quite a bit on it. There are articles. Google "Oppenheim genetics" and see what you come up with. She has done a number of studies. Watch the videos I posted and see where they lead you.

Don't worry, they won't bite. I think you will actually probably enjoy them:

 

[Sally]

It has been, Sally. I told you it was on a television program in Israel. There is an entire nascent peace movement growing out of this. You Tube has quite a bit on it. There are articles. Google "Oppenheim genetics" and see what you come up with. She has done a number of studies. Watch the videos I posted and see where they lead you.

Remember, Amity, you were not going to respond to me. Couldn't restrain yourself, could you because you want all the viewers to believe that your Arab brethren should be allowed back into Israel with the intention of them eventually taking over to rule Israel and make it another Muslim country in the Middle East. I will reiterate -- no matter how many times you bring up your genetics shtick, something like this would be flying all over the Internet since Israel/Palestine is such a hot topic to the detriment of the horrible things that are happening elsewhere in the world.. By the way, your friends are not going to be allowed back into Israel to take over no matter how many forums you run to with this shtick.

 

[amity1844]

I'll response when I want. How's that?

It has been, Sally. I told you it was on a television program in Israel. There is an entire nascent peace movement growing out of this. You Tube has quite a bit on it. There are articles. Google "Oppenheim genetics" and see what you come up with. She has done a number of studies. Watch the videos I posted and see where they lead you.

Don't worry, they won't bite. I think you will actually probably enjoy them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3q6OKG4zAE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPkLWlylISM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StlMl077Ei8

 

[Sally]

I'll response when I want. How's that?

It has been, Sally. I told you it was on a television program in Israel. There is an entire nascent peace movement growing out of this. You Tube has quite a bit on it. There are articles. Google "Oppenheim genetics" and see what you come up with. She has done a number of studies. Watch the videos I posted and see where they lead you.

Don't worry, they won't bite. I think you will actually probably enjoy them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3q6OKG4zAE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPkLWlylISM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StlMl077Ei8

A question that you might like to respond to since we all know why you are bringing up your genetics shtick.. Do they ever give you a potty break? Oh, I forgot. With robots you just have to turn on the switch every morning and oil them once in a while,

And, no, your friends are not going to be allowed into Israel to take over.

 

[teddyearp]

Sally...."Human Genetics" happens to be one of the scholarly publications that the top geneticists in the world PUBLISH their research in.<snip>

That may be true however all the links in amity's post of the journals lead to 404 errors. Not a real biggy, but hard for some to be able to read these things online.

 

[teddyearp]

Nor will she back up her claim of cannibalism made in this thread.

No, you're right. if you don't like the examples I already gave, then forget it. I am not going to let you tell me which rabbits to chase. I will find my own rabbits, thanks.

I am working on a new thread.

As will I since this is not really on the subject matter of this thread. After re-reading this whole thread I did find a link of yours that pointed to this; it was the same as one I found.

So, off I go . . . . .

 

[aris2chat]

Sally...."Human Genetics" happens to be one of the scholarly publications that the top geneticists in the world PUBLISH their research in.<snip>

That may be true however all the links in amity's post of the journals lead to 404 errors. Not a real biggy, but hard for some to be able to read these things online.

>>Judaism’s tribal roots

Unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism is not solely a faith-based religion. Its origins, as is the case with the other prominent surviving ancient religion, Zoroastrianism, are tribal. The blood connections mentioned endlessly in the Hebrew Bible are not just symbolic; the Jews of ancient Israel were a clan of connected tribes who coalesced over hundreds of years. While Jesus and later Mohammad transformed the notion of “blood” into “faith”—one could become a Christian or Muslim through faith alone—Judaism has always retained an ancestral component.

In the Torah, that blood link is patrilineal, passed on from father to son. That tradition is preserved today in the Jewish priesthood, known as the Aaronite line. According to the Bible (and we have no way to know if this is historical or apocryphal), Aaron was anointed as the first Jewish priest and his sons and their descendants became the seed population of the Jewish priesthood. Jewish Cohanim—the word means ‘priests’ in Hebrew—supervised the inner sanctum until the destruction of the Second Temple in the first century, after which the Aaronite line was preserved by tradition, with Cohanim having special privileges and responsibilities to this day.

Are present day Cohanim descended from Aaron? That question is unanswerable; we do not even know for certain that Aaron or Moses even existed. However, DNA studies of the Y chromosome have determined that a majority of self-proclaimed Cohanim (it’s an oral tradition) has a set of genetic markers that trace back approximately three thousand years to a single common ancestor. In other words, if there was no Aaron, there was certainly a High Priest early in the Jewish tradition whose ancestors have retained evidence of that tradition in their DNA.

As discussed in Abraham’s Children, Judaism has always retained its tribal roots even as faith-based religions flourished. In the centuries after the destruction of the Second Temple in the first century, Jewish lineage became defined through the mother rather than the father. Jewishness is now based on a triple helix: belief in God (although many Jews are agnostic or atheist); recognition of ancient Israel as a Biblical homeland; and literal blood connection with other Jews, passed on from generation to generation.

To many people—including and especially Jews sensitive to the Nazi branding of Jews as a race, which led to the near extinction of the religion—acknowledging the genetic cohesiveness of Judaism is uncomfortable. Anything that marks Jews as essentially different runs the risk of stirring either anti- or philo-Semitism. But that doesn’t mean we can ignore the factual reality of what Ostrer calls the “biological basis of Jewishness” and “Jewish genetics.” Acknowledging the genetic distinctiveness of Jews is “fraught with peril,” but we must grapple with the hard evidence of “human differences” if we seek to understand their implications of the age of genetics.

Jon Entine, executive director of the Genetic Literacy Project, is a senior fellow at the Center for Health & Risk Communication and STATS (Statistical Assessment Service) at George Mason University.<< Genetic Literacy Project | Where Science Trumps Ideology

 

[amity1844]

I'm sorry, I might have messed up the links by bolding the type for Sally.

Try these, they do seem to be working for me. the only citation that yielded a 404 error was the Human Genetics citation, #16:


1. Ben-Gurion, David & Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. The Land of Israel in the Past and in the Present. The Yiddish version, New York, 1918.

2. Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. Populations of Our Land. Warsaw: The Labor Committee of "Brit Hanoar" and the World Khaluts Center, 1932.

3. Writings of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, Vol. no. 5 &#8211; Population of the Land of Israel &#8211; Tel Aviv: Mitspeh Publishing, 1936 (identical contents to source 2).

4. Ben-Gurion, David. An Inquiry into the Origins of the Fellahin. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.

5. Belkind, Israel. Arabs in the Land of Israel. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.

6. Misinai, Tsvi. The Road Map to the Third Intifada &#8211; The roots and solution to the Problem of the Holy Land. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006.

7. Yarden, Elon. A Common Homeland Not a Disputed Territory. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006. (Contains sources 4 and 5 as appendices).

8. Yarden, Elon. Zion in Justice Shall be Redeemed (An Alternative to the Oslo Accords). Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, Tel Aviv, 2002.

9. Misinai, Tsvi. Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2007. (The book is a shortened version of source 6, written in a popular style).

10. Writings of Ber Borokhov, Volume 1. Kibbuts Meukhad Publishing, 1955.

11. Oral Telling of Samaritan Traditions, Yitskhak Ben Tsvi, A.B. Samaritan News, Volume 370-371, page 8, October 8, 1985.

12. &#1502;&#1489;&#1504;&#1492; &#1510;&#1497;&#1489;&#1493;&#1512; &#1489;&#1499;&#1508;&#1512; &#1497;&#1496;&#1488; &#1513;&#1489;&#1491;&#1512;&#1493;&#1501; &#1492;&#1512; &#1495;&#1489;&#1512;&#1493;&#1503; &#8211; &#1497;&#1493;&#1489;&#1500; &#1489;&#1512;&#1493;&#1498;, &#1512;&#1513;&#1493;&#1514; &#1492;&#1506;&#1514;&#1497;&#1511;&#1493;&#1514; &#1497;&#1512;&#1493;&#1513;&#1500;&#1497;&#1501; &#8211; &#1502;&#1495;&#1511;&#1512;&#1497; &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1491;&#1492; &#1493;&#1513;&#1493;&#1502;&#1512;&#1493;&#1503; &#1514;&#1513;&#1504;"&#1496;, &#1499;&#1512;&#1498; &#1514;&#1513;&#1497;&#1506;&#1497;. http://daat.ac.il/daat/israel/yehuda/mehkare-9-baruhl.PDF

13. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes M. F. Hammer, A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonne-Tamir PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, USA(, Volume 67, No. 12, pp 6769-6774, June 6, 2000. http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/12/6769#FN152

14. High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews Almut Nebel &#8226; Dvora Filon &#8226; Deborah A. Weiss &#8226; Michael Weale &#8226; Marina Faerman &#8226; Ariella Oppenheim &#8226; Mark G. Thomas Human Genetics, Volume 107, pp 630-641, 2000. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf

15. The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 69, pp 1095-1112, 2001. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1274378

16. Genetics of congenital deafness in the Palestinian population: multiple connection 26 alleles with shared origins in the Middle East. Shanin H, Walsh T, Sobe T, Lynch E, King MC, Avraham KB, Kanaan M. Human Genetics 110(3):284-9, Mar 2002. http://www.tau.ac.il/~karena/manuscriptspdf/2002/Shahin_et_al_2002.pdf

17. The Origin of Palestinians and Their Genetic Relatedness With Other Mediterranean Populations Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, Nagah Elaiwa, Carlos Silvera, Ahmed Rostom, Juan Moscoso, Eduardo Gómez-Casado, Luis Allende, Pilar Varela, and Jorge Martínez-Laso Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001) http://kinoko.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~dura...ness_With_Other_Mediterranean_Populations.pdf

18. Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians Robin McKie, science editor, The Observer, Sunday 25 November 2001 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/25/medicalscience.genetics

19. The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin Biology Direct http://www.biology-direct.com/content/5/1/57

20. Bohm, David. Wholeness and the Implicate Order. Routledge, 198

 

[amity1844]

I have a sincere question, and I hope I can get a sincere answer.

What is the legal status of Samaritans in Israel? Are they considered as Jews? Or as Arabs?

 

[montelatici]

It has been, Sally. I told you it was on a television program in Israel. There is an entire nascent peace movement growing out of this. You Tube has quite a bit on it. There are articles. Google "Oppenheim genetics" and see what you come up with. She has done a number of studies. Watch the videos I posted and see where they lead you.

Remember, Amity, you were not going to respond to me. Couldn't restrain yourself, could you because you want all the viewers to believe that your Arab brethren should be allowed back into Israel with the intention of them eventually taking over to rule Israel and make it another Muslim country in the Middle East. I will reiterate -- no matter how many times you bring up your genetics shtick, something like this would be flying all over the Internet since Israel/Palestine is such a hot topic to the detriment of the horrible things that are happening elsewhere in the world.. By the way, your friends are not going to be allowed back into Israel to take over no matter how many forums you run to with this shtick.

You are such an idiot Sally. Of course most Palestinians were Jews. The common people of Palestine just went on living and converted when the Romans took over and adopted the Roman Gods and then when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity they converted to Christianity. When the Muslims took over most became Muslims. It's just a fact. People do adapt to the conditions of the times.

 

[amity1844]

amen.

 

[aris2chat]

I have a sincere question, and I hope I can get a sincere answer.

What is the legal status of Samaritans in Israel? Are they considered as Jews? Or as Arabs?

Less than 800 divided among four families. Most live around Nablus or Tel Aviv. There used to be a seat on the Palestinian Legislative Council but no longer. In Israel they share a normal life with other Israelis, they share schools, they work along side other Israelis and serve in the military. Same diet, same laws, same ceremonies, same laws as other jews. Large genetic similarity as well. They did not usually intermarry in the past, but more so today. Yes, they are considered as jews in Israel.
In the WB they used to have good relations with palestinians before Oslo but now they are outsiders though their religious center is in Mount Gerizim.

 

[MHunterB]

I have a sincere question, and I hope I can get a sincere answer.

What is the legal status of Samaritans in Israel? Are they considered as Jews? Or as Arabs?

That 'question' makes no sense whatsoever. Over half of Jewish Israelis are Arabs, culturally and ethnically. 'Jew' and 'Arab' aren't mutually exclusive - at least not according to the Jews...... It seems the Arab League nations wouldn't agree, as they agreed to eject their Jewish citizenry en masse even before WW2 was over.

The Samaritans were declared to be 'Jewish' by the Israeli rabbinate so that they could then be required to receive protection as 'People of the Book'. Otherwise, I doubt there'd have been even a single Samaritan left alive.......

 

[amity1844]

Yes, they are considered as jews in Israel.

This was what I was looking for. If they are considered Jews by Israel, on what basis? Their religion doesn't really correspond to modern Judaism, IOW, they aren't practicing Jews.

When I was there in the 1970s they were NOT considered Jews, not entitled to the same benefits as Jews, and were displeased about that. and I think embarking on some activism. However, they were largely assimilated into Arab culture. Of course in the New Testament the whole import of the story of the good Samaritan is that they were despised by the Jews of that time.

By the way, MBHunter, my question DOES make sense. There is a legal difference between the status of Jews and Arabs in Israel.

 

[MHunterB]

Let's see the links to the laws which establish such differences.
Oh, and I'd like some independent verification of your other allegations as well.

As for the Jews 'despising' the Samaritans: have you read any of the seemingly endless filth that Protestants churn out attacking Catholics? Or read any of what the Shi'a and Sunni have to say about one another?

 

[Coyote]

In the end...what do genetics matter?

Both the people that call themselves "Palistinians" and the people that call themselves "Jews" share a rich and intertwined history that goes back milliniums.

The only purpose of these arguments is to justify the disenfranchisment of one or the other.

There needs to be justice and liberty for both. There needs to be a homeland for both.