Zone1 Generation Juicebox: How 30-Year Olds Became Atheist Leftist Basket Cases.

[Zincwarrior]

It's not hard. Just go with what Jesus is reported to have said. Not Paul, not the Old Testament, just what the Big Guy said.

 

[Meriweather]

Actually, almost all flood stories have the same theme... Man pisses off God (or Gods) and gods rain down floods.

I would like you to present the Hebrew theme. I started you out. The setting is a flood that took many lives. The Hebrews thought their behavior brought destruction to them. Specifically and according to their own story, what behavior was ascribed to their account of the flood.

Many stories (including the flood) have the same or similar settings. It is the theme that changes. We can see theme differences in Gone With the Wind and Rifles for Watie. I am asking you for the theme in the Hebrew account of the great flood.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem you have is reconciling a bronze age diety with a modern version...

Guess what, no difference other than the one you want to assign. What is the theme?

 

[JoeB131]

I would like you to present the Hebrew theme. I started you out. The setting is a flood that took many lives. The Hebrews thought their behavior brought destruction to them. Specifically and according to their own story, what behavior was ascribed to their account of the flood.

Well, that's a good question, because after murdering every baby in the world because men did evil, Noah and his family went right back to sinning the minute they got off the boat.

Many stories (including the flood) have the same or similar settings. It is the theme that changes. We can see theme differences in Gone With the Wind and Rifles for Watie. I am asking you for the theme in the Hebrew account of the great flood.

Except why should the "Theme" change if God is eternal? The God who came down to Earth as Jesus to suffer for man's sins (supposedly) is the same God who drowned every baby in the world for... reasons. God comes off like a Batman villain, doing horrible things just to mess with man for the fun of it.


Now, this DOES make sense if you realize the guy who wrote Genesis was a bronze age Hebrew peasant who thought that everything he didn't understand was a God who constantly needed to be appeased, but the guy who wrote the Gospel of Mark was a more enlightened Greek who never visited Palestine, but wanted to ascribe positive elements to his God-Man.

Guess what, no difference other than the one you want to assign. What is the theme?

Except mine is based on science and reason. We KNOW there wasn't a world wide flood by studying half a dozen sciences - Geology, paleontology, biology, genetics.

Now, modern churches like to downplay the awful stories of the bible by either Disneyfying them or hiding them. But you really can't. Either God is eternal and the sadist of the OT is the same God of the NT, or he isn't.

 

[Meriweather]

Except mine is based on science and reason. We KNOW there wasn't a world wide flood by studying half a dozen sciences - Geology, paleontology, biology, genetics.

We also know that the original Hebrew said nothing about the flood covering the planet. You read the water covered the Earth while the Hebrew says the water covered the earth. (They had another word for the entire world.)

The English translation does not do the original Hebrew justice. Another fact I have explained before. This fact and the fact about rain covering earth/soil hold no interest for you. Their story holds no interest for you. You want a story where God is the villain, and you continually write your own story about this. I have no interest in your story. I have great interest in theirs. They have a message for humanity both then and in the future. You want a story about God as villain.

 

[Meriweather]

The God who came down to Earth as Jesus to suffer for man's sins (supposedly)

What message did Jesus present that upset men in power?

 

[Meriweather]

Now, this DOES make sense if you realize the guy who wrote Genesis was a bronze age Hebrew peasant who thought that everything he didn't understand was a God who constantly needed to be appeased,

You do not have even a basic understanding of Bronze age beings--who were highly intelligent. They did not possess the knowledge we have today, true, but they appear to have been head and shoulders above us in philosophy.

They thought their behavior was the cause of the disaster, fermenting through all of society until justice demanded an end to it. Specifically, what behavior was this?

Before you laugh at their idea that human behavior affects the climate, take a look at today's humans running around claiming we are affecting it in our own time. We have nothing on Bronze age humans, do we, not when we go around squawking that human behavior is causing great disasters in today's weather fronts.

 

[Meriweather]

Now, modern churches like to downplay the awful stories of the bible

Again, your perspective. Many people today are interested in what Old Testament stories, in their original language/culture, actually said. You don't happen to be one of them, and are actually delighted that you can use the English translation and modern culture for your own amusement.

 

[Mr Natural]

Serious comments only, not absurd drivel. Thanks.

Yeah, no absurd drivel in a thread of absurd drivel.

 

[JoeB131]

We also know that the original Hebrew said nothing about the flood covering the planet. You read the water covered the Earth while the Hebrew says the water covered the earth. (They had another word for the entire world.)

Well, the Hebrews had no idea how big the world actually was... And the Genesis story is derivative of other earlier tales, like Gilgamesh.

The English translation does not do the original Hebrew justice. Another fact I have explained before. This fact and the fact about rain covering earth/soil hold no interest for you. Their story holds no interest for you. You want a story where God is the villain, and you continually write your own story about this. I have no interest in your story. I have great interest in theirs. They have a message for humanity both then and in the future. You want a story about God as villain.

I'm still waiting for one of you God-Botherers to tell me how God comes off as the good guy in that story. I mean, Sr. Mary Butch was nuts from 80 years of no sex while surrounded by other Lesbians, but I'm not sure what your excuse is.

What message did Jesus present that upset men in power?

That they should try to work Greek Philosophy into their Bronze Age beliefs. Naturally, the Pharisees thought this was Blasphemy and executed him. Which I would almost feel bad about, if Christians hadn't spent the following 2000 years killing heretics of various sorts.

You do not have even a basic understanding of Bronze age beings--who were highly intelligent. They did not possess the knowledge we have today, true, but they appear to have been head and shoulders above us in philosophy.

Not really. Stoning people for minor offenses? Responding to a dead body by sacrificing a Cow and saying, Not our fault. (One of my favorite Atheist YouTubers did this hilarious video on it called "CSI: Old Testament", but you can't find it because he took down most of his videos.)

Before you laugh at their idea that human behavior affects the climate, take a look at today's humans running around claiming we are affecting it in our own time. We have nothing on Bronze age humans, do we, not when we go around squawking that human behavior is causing great disasters in today's weather fronts.

Oh, right... Scientifically proven theories are out, but you believe EVIL can effect the weather. Um... I'm not even sure where to go with this one. Seriously, are you trying to send me into mockery overload?

Again, your perspective. Many people today are interested in what Old Testament stories, in their original language/culture, actually said. You don't happen to be one of them, and are actually delighted that you can use the English translation and modern culture for your own amusement.

Quite the contrary, I would love it if the world ignored the OT and it was only of interest to antiquarians. Unfortunately, we have too many idiots in this country who think we should base on our whole society on it and put copies of the Ten Commandments in our courthouses...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yeah, no absurd drivel in a thread of absurd drivel.

Haha, right

"I am going to preach on the authority of a primitive, iron age mythology to condemn millions of people I haven't met and know nothing about, while openly masturbating.


No weirdos, please. "

 

[Meriweather]

I'm still waiting for one of you God-Botherers to tell me how God comes off as the good guy in that story.

I did. You did not listen. You are not listening still. Perhaps you never will.

Joe, long before the story was written people already had their picture of God. All loving. All good. Creator. Just. True. His people lived in a good world.

If people jump off of high places, gravity has them crashing back to earth. A simple law that affects all. Disrespect gravity, expect tragedy. The same with other laws. Disrespect love, goodness, justice, truth, the earth will turn on you. It is in its very design, built on goodness, built on love. Since this is God's creation, all that happens can rest on God and how/what He created.

The ancients knew and accepted God is nothing like us humans. Therefore, they used a literary technique we still use to this day: Personification. God is given emotions humans understand--even when humans understand that God is far beyond their emotion.

The Great Flood (or many great floods) are an example of how people saw the good earth turning against them. They believed while God was loving and forgiving, He was also just--and loving and forgiving can only go so far before it becomes injustice and a new start is needed.

Read the story again. The author begins with the people's behavior. Remember, no one was keeping a journal at that time. Their accounts are based upon reflections about a past event. The Hebrew author set the stage. The setting was the Great Flood. The question to be answered: What did humans do to cause God's good earth to turn on them? They compared their behavior at that time before the flood to the love, goodness, and justice of God. They judged themselves and found not God wanting--but themselves wanting. The Hebrew author focused on one particular wrong of the people. What was that specific wrong?

If the people's behavior could bring down justice in the form of a great flood, from what must they refrain from doing to avert another great disaster in the future? What, in our behavior, was the author warning everyone (past and present) about? What behavior modification did the author want us to learn from the flood?

Certainly, today we can say, "Oh! That type of behavior would never cause a flood!" Technically, I would agree with such a statement. However, our ancestors wanted us to see the harm it was causing in the community--harm as great as that flood. What harm were they bringing upon themselves and each other? How long can people bring on that harm before goodness rebels at the injustice, destroys it all so it all can be renewed?

All you have ever seen, Joe, and all you will ever care to see and learn is, "Villainous God. Don't believe in God." The whole Bible story has gone over your head your entire life. However, you are satisfied with the story you created, so what need is there to listen to the original author.

 

[JoeB131]

I did. You did not listen. You are not listening still. Perhaps you never will.

Joe, long before the story was written people already had their picture of God. All loving. All good. Creator. Just. True. His people lived in a good world.

Well, except they didn't. For the Hebrews, and other Bronze Age people, God was every force of nature they didn't understand and needed to be appeased with human sacrifices. (And there is plenty of evidence that Yahweh liked him some human sacrifice as much as Baal and Moloch, as the story of Jephthah proves. Virgin, the other White Meat!)

Slightly more advanced Iron Age people who wrote the New Testament, and had exposure to other cultures thanks to the trade created by the Greeks and Romans, needed something more, to assuage their fear of death.

If people jump off of high places, gravity has them crashing back to earth. A simple law that affects all. Disrespect gravity, expect tragedy. The same with other laws. Disrespect love, goodness, justice, truth, the earth will turn on you. It is in its very design, built on goodness, built on love. Since this is God's creation, all that happens can rest on God and how/what He created.

The ancients knew and accepted God is nothing like us humans. Therefore, they used a literary technique we still use to this day: Personification. God is given emotions humans understand--even when humans understand that God is far beyond their emotion.

The Great Flood (or many great floods) are an example of how people saw the good earth turning against them. They believed while God was loving and forgiving, He was also just--and loving and forgiving can only go so far before it becomes injustice and a new start is needed.

In short, God didn't create Man, Man Created God. Actually, he created a lot of Gods and Goddesses. But yours is totally real, I'm sure.

Read the story again. The author begins with the people's behavior. Remember, no one was keeping a journal at that time. Their accounts are based upon reflections about a past event. The Hebrew author set the stage. The setting was the Great Flood. The question to be answered: What did humans do to cause God's good earth to turn on them? They compared their behavior at that time before the flood to the love, goodness, and justice of God. They judged themselves and found not God wanting--but themselves wanting. The Hebrew author focused on one particular wrong of the people. What was that specific wrong?

Again, this doesn't really speak well for God. If you talk to families of domestic abusers, they will always tell you that when Daddy goes into a drunken rage and starts hitting the wife and kids, they will all say they 'deserved it". Your religion comes off more like "Stockholm Syndrome". You might be happy being a victim, I refuse to be...

If the people's behavior could bring down justice in the form of a great flood, from what must they refrain from doing to avert another great disaster in the future? What, in our behavior, was the author warning everyone (past and present) about? What behavior modification did the author want us to learn from the flood?

Certainly, today we can say, "Oh! That type of behavior would never cause a flood!" Technically, I would agree with such a statement. However, our ancestors wanted us to see the harm it was causing in the community--harm as great as that flood. What harm were they bringing upon themselves and each other? How long can people bring on that harm before goodness rebels at the injustice, destroys it all so it all can be renewed?

All you have ever seen, Joe, and all you will ever care to see and learn is, "Villainous God. Don't believe in God." The whole Bible story has gone over your head your entire life. However, you are satisfied with the story you created, so what need is there to listen to the original author.

Because frankly, if we both agree it's a work of fiction, and the story is an awful one, then why would we care about the original author. Nothing annoys me more when reading a book or watching a movie than when a character does something that is completely irrational and it changes the whole plot.