French Senate passes gay marriage and adoption

[WorldWatcher]

The people are being forced to accept same sex marriage as it does traditional marriage and that's where the imposition is.

They have to accept the law, but is does not effect them.

Of course it does. Just like the insipid laws we pass here affects others. The baker who doesn't want to bake a wedding cake for a same sex couple. The counselor who doesn't want to provide same sex counseling services. The photographer who doesn't want to photograph a same sex wedding. Myself, when I got sued by a lesbian couple for refusing to paint their wedding portrait.

The law is wrong, it does not have the consent of the governed and will not be accepted.

Those issues have nothing to do with Same-sex Civil Marraige laws which have to do with equal government recognition.

Those laws are a problem because of Public Accommodation laws that require priviate business not to refuse service based on race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sex, sexual orientation, age, etc...


The photographer was in New Mexico, New Mexico doesn't have Same-sex Civil Marriage.

What state do you live in? Where you "sued" under laws granting equal government treatment to same-sex Civil Marriages or were you sued under Public Accommodation laws?



>>>>

 

[NoNukes]

Of course it does. Just like the insipid laws we pass here affects others. The baker who doesn't want to bake a wedding cake for a same sex couple. The counselor who doesn't want to provide same sex counseling services. The photographer who doesn't want to photograph a same sex wedding. Myself, when I got sued by a lesbian couple for refusing to paint their wedding portrait.

The law is wrong, it does not have the consent of the governed and will not be accepted.

Why would these people not want to give these services? We all have to respect that others have different beliefs. So much for America the Land of Freedom

If we were the Land of Freedom, that would necessarily include the Freedom to conduct business with whoever you want to. What you propose is to take freedom from the people and call it freedom. In a land that was truly free, gays would have to respect the different beliefs of others too.

I got the idea of refusing to perform services unless I chose to do so from my mechanic who won't perform services for black people. He had so much trouble with them that he just won't deal with them anymore so he just says no, and he can legally do that. Following the result of my lawsuit, a photographer in my art club refuses to photograph same sex weddings, and does so legally. None of us have the freedom of contract to do business with those we choose to do business with. These are small acts of rebellion when their freedoms are being taken away.

That said. It is wrong to post that France passed this landmark law in a manner that suggests it is popular with the people when it is clearly not. The French people are fighting back. The British people are fighting back. Imposing unpopular laws only goes so far before resistance starts to grow.

Freedom to discriminate us what you mean.

 

[Katzndogz]

To my knowledge I've only ever worked for one gay couple. They had a huge home and I was happy to do the job. Made a lot of money and they were easy to work for.

I don't see why anyone would refuse to work for gays. I have refused jobs before, in fact a couple this week, but never for reasons like this.

My first job, at 13 years old was for a lesbian couple. I was a waitress in a diner they owned. Very nice people. When they told me that if I got married I would sadly be fired, I thought it was a joke. I didn't believe them. Right up to the day I was fired. They could tolerate a straight girl working for them, but not one that was married to a man. As odd as it seems today, I understood why they didn't want me there and agreed that it was best that I should go.

Individuals should have the absolute right to work for whoever they want to as long as the agreement is mutually made. If they have a service business, they should be allowed the freedom to perform services for whoever they want to. Sometimes it might be based in their religious belief and they should be allowed to do that. Forcing people to do what they don't want to do is not freedom. It's the exact opposite of freedom.

You understood why they didn't want you there and agreed with them?

Is this how you justify your intolerance? Based on theirs?

I agree that people should have the freedom to conduct their lives according to the way they see fit. After all, I would have been entirely justified in refusing to work there at all based on nothing more than the women were lesbians. If I had that freedom, so did they. Which at 15, was very mature of me.

 

[NoNukes]

My first job, at 13 years old was for a lesbian couple. I was a waitress in a diner they owned. Very nice people. When they told me that if I got married I would sadly be fired, I thought it was a joke. I didn't believe them. Right up to the day I was fired. They could tolerate a straight girl working for them, but not one that was married to a man. As odd as it seems today, I understood why they didn't want me there and agreed that it was best that I should go.

Individuals should have the absolute right to work for whoever they want to as long as the agreement is mutually made. If they have a service business, they should be allowed the freedom to perform services for whoever they want to. Sometimes it might be based in their religious belief and they should be allowed to do that. Forcing people to do what they don't want to do is not freedom. It's the exact opposite of freedom.

You understood why they didn't want you there and agreed with them?

Is this how you justify your intolerance? Based on theirs?

I agree that people should have the freedom to conduct their lives according to the way they see fit. After all, I would have been entirely justified in refusing to work there at all based on nothing more than the women were lesbians. If I had that freedom, so did they. Which at 15, was very mature of me.

You were married at 15?

 

[WorldWatcher]

They have to accept the law, but is does not effect them.

Of course it does. Just like the insipid laws we pass here affects others. The baker who doesn't want to bake a wedding cake for a same sex couple. The counselor who doesn't want to provide same sex counseling services. The photographer who doesn't want to photograph a same sex wedding. Myself, when I got sued by a lesbian couple for refusing to paint their wedding portrait.

The law is wrong, it does not have the consent of the governed and will not be accepted.

How did you get sued? I see signs ALL THE TIME that say We Reserve the right to refuse service.

You can put up any sign you want.

In States that have Public Accommodation laws you can be fined for discriminating to customers based on race, ethnicity, age, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, etc (varies by state).

The sign does not negate the requirements of the law.


(Personally I think it's time all Public Accommodation laws as they apply to private businesses should be repealed and they should only apply to government entities. However I recognize that way I think they should be and what reality is are not always the same.)



>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

Of course it does. Just like the insipid laws we pass here affects others. The baker who doesn't want to bake a wedding cake for a same sex couple. The counselor who doesn't want to provide same sex counseling services. The photographer who doesn't want to photograph a same sex wedding. Myself, when I got sued by a lesbian couple for refusing to paint their wedding portrait.

The law is wrong, it does not have the consent of the governed and will not be accepted.

How did you get sued? I see signs ALL THE TIME that say We Reserve the right to refuse service.

The same way all those other people got sued for refusing to perform services for anyone who demands it. I won my case by the way. Unlike the baker, photographer and counselor, I won my case.

No one particularly cares what gays do. It's when they demand that others accept the legitimacy of what they do that people rebel.

What the misconception that is being promoted here is, that France passed an inclusive law and either people are happy with it, or they don't care, when exactly the opposiite is true. Obviously they are unhappy and obviously they care. Since the authority is not paying attention to them and passing laws against the will of the people, the people are taking direct action with beating and burning gays to death. Sadly, painfully, this should be expected.

Actually, IIRC, the polls show that the majority of the people approve of extending marriage equality to same-sex couples.



>>>>

 

[Katzndogz]

You understood why they didn't want you there and agreed with them?

Is this how you justify your intolerance? Based on theirs?

I agree that people should have the freedom to conduct their lives according to the way they see fit. After all, I would have been entirely justified in refusing to work there at all based on nothing more than the women were lesbians. If I had that freedom, so did they. Which at 15, was very mature of me.

You were married at 15?

Yep! It wasn't my idea so don't blame me.

 

[Katzndogz]

How did you get sued? I see signs ALL THE TIME that say We Reserve the right to refuse service.

The same way all those other people got sued for refusing to perform services for anyone who demands it. I won my case by the way. Unlike the baker, photographer and counselor, I won my case.

No one particularly cares what gays do. It's when they demand that others accept the legitimacy of what they do that people rebel.

What the misconception that is being promoted here is, that France passed an inclusive law and either people are happy with it, or they don't care, when exactly the opposiite is true. Obviously they are unhappy and obviously they care. Since the authority is not paying attention to them and passing laws against the will of the people, the people are taking direct action with beating and burning gays to death. Sadly, painfully, this should be expected.

Actually, IIRC, the polls show that the majority of the people approve of extending marriage equality to same-sex couples.



>>>>

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

 

[bodecea]

I agree that people should have the freedom to conduct their lives according to the way they see fit. After all, I would have been entirely justified in refusing to work there at all based on nothing more than the women were lesbians. If I had that freedom, so did they. Which at 15, was very mature of me.

You were married at 15?

Yep! It wasn't my idea so don't blame me.

Wait.......what? You were FORCED to marry at 15?????????

 

[Katzndogz]

You were married at 15?

Yep! It wasn't my idea so don't blame me.

Wait.......what? You were FORCED to marry at 15?????????

Yes I was. It made sense to my parents at the time, which was 1963. They thought they were doing the right thing. By the time I was 16, I was married TWICE!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Yep! It wasn't my idea so don't blame me.

Wait.......what? You were FORCED to marry at 15?????????

Yes I was. It made sense to my parents at the time, which was 1963. They thought they were doing the right thing. By the time I was 16, I was married TWICE!

Holly shit girl. Forgive me for saying but that's some fucked up parenting. I didn't even let my girls date at 15. Yikes

 

[WorldWatcher]

The same way all those other people got sued for refusing to perform services for anyone who demands it. I won my case by the way. Unlike the baker, photographer and counselor, I won my case.

No one particularly cares what gays do. It's when they demand that others accept the legitimacy of what they do that people rebel.

What the misconception that is being promoted here is, that France passed an inclusive law and either people are happy with it, or they don't care, when exactly the opposiite is true. Obviously they are unhappy and obviously they care. Since the authority is not paying attention to them and passing laws against the will of the people, the people are taking direct action with beating and burning gays to death. Sadly, painfully, this should be expected.

Actually, IIRC, the polls show that the majority of the people approve of extending marriage equality to same-sex couples.



>>>>

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

You are the one claiming the French people reject marriage equality, but then say "Tens of thousands of French people are rioting all over France ...".

France has a population of over 65,000,000 people. Tens of thousands demonstrating does not mean all people in France agree with the demonstrators.



>>>>

 

[Katzndogz]

Actually, IIRC, the polls show that the majority of the people approve of extending marriage equality to same-sex couples.



>>>>

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

You are the one claiming the French people reject marriage equality, but then say "Tens of thousands of French people are rioting all over France ...".

France has a population of over 65,000,000 people. Tens of thousands demonstrating does not mean all people in France agree with the demonstrators.



>>>>

Nope. Likely many of those who agree with the demonstrators aren't in the street voicing their disagreement. Silence does not mean agreement with the law.

Surprisingly, the French have more balls than the Americans.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

You are the one claiming the French people reject marriage equality, but then say "Tens of thousands of French people are rioting all over France ...".

France has a population of over 65,000,000 people. Tens of thousands demonstrating does not mean all people in France agree with the demonstrators.



>>>>

Nope. Likely many of those who agree with the demonstrators aren't in the street voicing their disagreement. Silence does not mean agreement with the law.

Surprisingly, the French have more balls than the Americans.

I didn't say that silence meant agreement with the law. You pointed out "tens of thousands" were demonstrating, and tried to claim "the people" didn't approve.

Yet polls showed that in a country of 65,000,000 that a majority approved of Same-sex Civil Marriage. While not demonstrating does not mean approval of the law, not demonstrating also does not mean disapproval. The number of demonstrator doe not demonstrate general public opinion, it only demonstrates the opinion of those demonstrating.



>>>>

 

[bodecea]

The same way all those other people got sued for refusing to perform services for anyone who demands it. I won my case by the way. Unlike the baker, photographer and counselor, I won my case.

No one particularly cares what gays do. It's when they demand that others accept the legitimacy of what they do that people rebel.

What the misconception that is being promoted here is, that France passed an inclusive law and either people are happy with it, or they don't care, when exactly the opposiite is true. Obviously they are unhappy and obviously they care. Since the authority is not paying attention to them and passing laws against the will of the people, the people are taking direct action with beating and burning gays to death. Sadly, painfully, this should be expected.

Actually, IIRC, the polls show that the majority of the people approve of extending marriage equality to same-sex couples.



>>>>

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

Have you not been paying attention to the last few elections?

 

[bodecea]

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

You are the one claiming the French people reject marriage equality, but then say "Tens of thousands of French people are rioting all over France ...".

France has a population of over 65,000,000 people. Tens of thousands demonstrating does not mean all people in France agree with the demonstrators.



>>>>

Nope. Likely many of those who agree with the demonstrators aren't in the street voicing their disagreement. Silence does not mean agreement with the law.

Surprisingly, the French have more balls than the Americans.

Oh?

Wilfred de Brujin and France?s Scary Gay Marriage Backlash - The Daily Beast

 

[Euroconservativ]

The large opposition to gay marriage among french conservative lawmakers has more to do with cultural nationalism than religion.

So european conservatives are to the left of US Democrats?

But of course!

Why?

There are many issues, other than health care or education, to label someone as "left" or "right". In fact, extreme right-wingers in Europe (Le Pen, Strache and others) tend to be strong defenders of the Welfare State.

Germany is that country that hates inflation, that distrusts artificial stimulus plans... and whose government passed a constitutional balanced-budget amendment in 2009 when the GDP was going downhill. Is that "left-wing"?

 

[bodecea]

Yep! It wasn't my idea so don't blame me.

Wait.......what? You were FORCED to marry at 15?????????

Yes I was. It made sense to my parents at the time, which was 1963. They thought they were doing the right thing. By the time I was 16, I was married TWICE!

Holy Crap! That is seriously messed up!

 

[Katzndogz]

Actually, IIRC, the polls show that the majority of the people approve of extending marriage equality to same-sex couples.



>>>>

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

Have you not been paying attention to the last few elections?

Haven't you? Republicans control 30 out of 50 states. The presidebt got elected because of free obamaphones, not same sex marriage.

Same sex marriage advocates believed that public opinion has shifted and tried to circumvent additional Prop 8 appeals by getting the issue back on the ballot and having people vote for it. They could not get enough signatures to qualify.

 

[bodecea]

Yep, the polls again, why would even bother with a vote when we could just use a poll?

Have you not been paying attention to the last few elections?

Haven't you? Republicans control 30 out of 50 states. The presidebt got elected because of free obamaphones, not same sex marriage.

Same sex marriage advocates believed that public opinion has shifted and tried to circumvent additional Prop 8 appeals by getting the issue back on the ballot and having people vote for it. They could not get enough signatures to qualify.

Maine

Maryland

Washington


You've not been paying attention, have you?

And Prop H8 is going down for being unconstitutional.