Free will/time is fixed conundrum

MaryL

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Religion and science are both conflicted on this. Most religions depended on predetermination. And physicists are coming to the conclusion that time is "fixed", past present and future all exist at once. And there is Libet's experiment...
 

percysunshine

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Religion and science are both conflicted on this. Most religions depended on predetermination. And physicists are coming to the conclusion that time is "fixed", past present and future all exist at once. And there is Libet's experiment...
Theoretical physicists will believe anything.
 

lg325

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Religion and science are both conflicted on this. Most religions depended on predetermination. And physicists are coming to the conclusion that time is "fixed", past present and future all exist at once. And there is Libet's experiment...
Is there a link so we can study there findings?
 
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MaryL

MaryL

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Religion and science are both conflicted on this. Most religions depended on predetermination. And physicists are coming to the conclusion that time is "fixed", past present and future all exist at once. And there is Libet's experiment...
Is there a link so we can study there findings?
Yes.
 

lg325

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Libets experiment - Bing.- Interesting experiment. Just because a finger moves is it a sign of consciousness? The tree roots move ,is that sign the tree is conscious of its self.?
 
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MaryL

MaryL

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Religion and science seem to agree, everything is fixed. My post was meant to happen, your response as well.
 

Slade3200

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Religion and science seem to agree, everything is fixed. My post was meant to happen, your response as well.
Was your post and his response supposed to happen exactly like it did in a singular event or did it happen in one of the infinite possibilities of events that may all be happening at once?
 

lg325

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Calvinism ,the teaching of predestination Is taught in Baptist Seminary. But Free Will is also. Have Physicist come to a conclusion as to what is controlling this universe where everything from the tiny atom to the universe it self is fixed?
 

Skylar

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Religion and science are both conflicted on this. Most religions depended on predetermination. And physicists are coming to the conclusion that time is "fixed", past present and future all exist at once. And there is Libet's experiment...
I don't see a fixed future and free will as being in conflict.....if the future is fixed based on the choices you made in the present.
 

Slade3200

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Religion and science are both conflicted on this. Most religions depended on predetermination. And physicists are coming to the conclusion that time is "fixed", past present and future all exist at once. And there is Libet's experiment...
I don't see a fixed future and free will as being in conflict.....if the future is fixed based on the choices you made in the present.
If the future is fixed then the “choices” you think you’re making only feel like choices but that’s just an illusion
 

JoeMoma

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A very good sci-fi short story that explores the topic of this thread that I read as a kid. Here is the story, By His Bootstraps in audio. Author: Robert H Heinlein. The audio for the story starts at about 2 minutes and 20 seconds into the audio.

 
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MaryL

MaryL

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Religion and science seem to agree, everything is fixed. My post was meant to happen, your response as well.
Was your post and his response supposed to happen exactly like it did in a singular event or did it happen in one of the infinite possibilities of events that may all be happening at once?
Well in another universe/timeline you saved my gramma from being eaten by an mad platypus.
 

onefour1

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What I find interesting is that God, knowing how all his children will exercise their free will, knows the future. To him the future is basically fixed because of his superior knowledge.
 

Slade3200

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Religion and science seem to agree, everything is fixed. My post was meant to happen, your response as well.
Was your post and his response supposed to happen exactly like it did in a singular event or did it happen in one of the infinite possibilities of events that may all be happening at once?
Well in another universe/timeline you saved my gramma from being eaten by an mad platypus.
If “reality” truly is infinite then that would be true... and I just saved her again... and again! You’re welcome
 

JoeMoma

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Religion and science seem to agree, everything is fixed. My post was meant to happen, your response as well.
Was your post and his response supposed to happen exactly like it did in a singular event or did it happen in one of the infinite possibilities of events that may all be happening at once?
A problem with the multiple timeline/multiple universe theory is where does the new mass and energy for each new timeline/universe come from?
 

JoeMoma

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The God/Man has free will paradox --the way I see it.

Lets start with a few axioms.

1. God is omnipotent, omniscient (all knowing past, present and future) and omnipresent.
2. God has freewill.
3. At time (t) = 0, there was God and only God before God created the universe. and God begun his creation at that time (perhaps creating time its self).

When God created the universe per axiom 1 he had complete control to the most minute detail. Also, since God has freewill, he could create the universe as he chose from infinite possibilities (p1,p2,p3 to infinity). When God created the universe, he knew all future events that would occur based on how he created and set the universe in motion. God is in control of all "butterfly" effects. He knows how the all future events differ if he moves, adds or deletes a single atom. When he created the universe, he knew that I would type this post about this paradox; however, he also knew exactly how to manipulate his creation so that my life would be exactly the same up to this point, but then diverging because I appear to choose not to type this post. So if God knew in advance every decision I would make when he set the universe in motion, but also had the ability to cause me to choose differently by setting the universe in motion differently, do I have freewill, or were all my decisions predetermine by God only to give me the illusion of freewill?
 

onefour1

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That is the same question as the following but put a different way.

If God is all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving being, why didn't he simply choose to create us to be perfect just like himself?

If he is all powerful, surely he had the power to do it. If he is all knowing, surely he had the knowledge of how to do it. Finally, if he is all loving, then he certainly would have loved us enough to give us perfection. So why didn't God simply create us to be perfect like himself?

I was asked this question by a professor I had back in college. It took me awhile but I believe I have found the true answer.
 

JoeMoma

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That is the same question as the following but put a different way.

If God is all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving being, why didn't he simply choose to create us to be perfect just like himself?

If he is all powerful, surely he had the power to do it. If he is all knowing, surely he had the knowledge of how to do it. Finally, if he is all loving, then he certainly would have loved us enough to give us perfection. So why didn't God simply create us to be perfect like himself?

I was asked this question by a professor I had back in college. It took me awhile but I believe I have found the true answer.
What is the true answer?
 

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