Religious tribalism

Bernhard

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There seem to be different kinds of religious people:

Some focus on their belief and the teachings of their religion. They practize their religion and want to be "good".

And then, there are others for whom religion is less about belief, and more a kind of identity, like national identity is for nationalists: It doesn't matter if you're a "good Christian" or "bad Christian", for example, as long as you are culturally a Christian. Just like for, say, German nationalists, you feel closer to a violent criminal German than to a law-abiding foreigner -- because even if you're a convicted criminal, you're still German.

This kind of religion as identity rather than belief, this religious tribalism, often comes with mixing religion with politics. It's what islamists do, and it's what certain Christian "religious right" people do.

What do you think about that? If you're a believer, do you think such an attitude damages the integrity of your faith? And do you think mixing your religion with politics is a good or bad thing?

If you're not religious, what is your take on this?
 

ding

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I have yet to find anything involving people that didn't have a distribution, but as a rule politics transcends religion.
 

alang1216

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There seem to be different kinds of religious people:

Some focus on their belief and the teachings of their religion. They practize their religion and want to be "good".

And then, there are others for whom religion is less about belief, and more a kind of identity, like national identity is for nationalists: It doesn't matter if you're a "good Christian" or "bad Christian", for example, as long as you are culturally a Christian. Just like for, say, German nationalists, you feel closer to a violent criminal German than to a law-abiding foreigner -- because even if you're a convicted criminal, you're still German.

This kind of religion as identity rather than belief, this religious tribalism, often comes with mixing religion with politics. It's what islamists do, and it's what certain Christian "religious right" people do.

What do you think about that? If you're a believer, do you think such an attitude damages the integrity of your faith? And do you think mixing your religion with politics is a good or bad thing?

If you're not religious, what is your take on this?
We're human, we judge our 'enemies' by their worst actions and our friends by their worst. In pre-history the extended family was the world, there were others out there but they were not 'us'. You didn't kill one of your family but 'others' were often fair game. Over time our view of 'family' grew to our city or region, then to a country. That is where the US is now. Our country and its people have been Christian, White, and European. That is slowly changing and Christian, White, Europeans often fell left behind. That anger gives us a Hitler or a Trump. Both were expert at directing that anger to a perceived 'enemy'. Sorry for the ramble.
 

Votto

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There seem to be different kinds of religious people:

Some focus on their belief and the teachings of their religion. They practize their religion and want to be "good".

And then, there are others for whom religion is less about belief, and more a kind of identity, like national identity is for nationalists: It doesn't matter if you're a "good Christian" or "bad Christian", for example, as long as you are culturally a Christian. Just like for, say, German nationalists, you feel closer to a violent criminal German than to a law-abiding foreigner -- because even if you're a convicted criminal, you're still German.

This kind of religion as identity rather than belief, this religious tribalism, often comes with mixing religion with politics. It's what islamists do, and it's what certain Christian "religious right" people do.

What do you think about that? If you're a believer, do you think such an attitude damages the integrity of your faith? And do you think mixing your religion with politics is a good or bad thing?

If you're not religious, what is your take on this?
Well right now you have a democrat preacher running for the Senate saying that God is going to judge America for it's wickedness, i.e., voting for Trump. His name is Warnock.

He also informs us that if you are in the military you can't serve God, and more than likely the police as well.

I suppose God's judgement will be a democrat takeover and subsequent destruction of the nation.
 

Tom Paine 1949

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You know how they say with strangers — and sometimes even around the dinner table — it’s best to avoid religion and politics ...

Well, I never had trouble talking about either, and I still really enjoy intelligent conversations with people who disagree. But I find most people — especially these days — have trouble listening to different viewpoints on politics without getting all crazy. Folks whose political and religious identities are fused into a solid block of devotion are the hardest to reach. Occasionally such people will listen respectfully, but they almost never really listen. This is just my experience, however.
 

Votto

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You know how they say with strangers — and sometimes even around the dinner table — it’s best to avoid religion and politics ...

Well, I never had trouble talking about either, and I still really enjoy intelligent conversations with people who disagree. But I find most people — especially these days — have trouble listening to different viewpoints on politics without getting all crazy. Folks whose political and religious identities are fused into a solid block of devotion are the hardest to reach. Occasionally such people will listen respectfully, but they almost never really listen. This is just my experience, however.
I'm sorry, what?
 

22lcidw

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Is the message of God the same today as in 1970?
 

tyroneweaver

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There seem to be different kinds of religious people:

Some focus on their belief and the teachings of their religion. They practize their religion and want to be "good".

And then, there are others for whom religion is less about belief, and more a kind of identity, like national identity is for nationalists: It doesn't matter if you're a "good Christian" or "bad Christian", for example, as long as you are culturally a Christian. Just like for, say, German nationalists, you feel closer to a violent criminal German than to a law-abiding foreigner -- because even if you're a convicted criminal, you're still German.

This kind of religion as identity rather than belief, this religious tribalism, often comes with mixing religion with politics. It's what islamists do, and it's what certain Christian "religious right" people do.

What do you think about that? If you're a believer, do you think such an attitude damages the integrity of your faith? And do you think mixing your religion with politics is a good or bad thing?

If you're not religious, what is your take on this?
This guy sure got it right.

 

lg325

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Jesus teaches us Christians that we all fall short. So you will find good and bad Christians and some who get it wrong with there preaching. You will find that in other religions as well.. I know people say Christianity is a religion but I was taught it is not. Being Baptist, Catholic or Protestant is a religion with in the Christian faith.
 
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Bernhard

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You know how they say with strangers — and sometimes even around the dinner table — it’s best to avoid religion and politics ...

Well, I never had trouble talking about either, and I still really enjoy intelligent conversations with people who disagree. But I find most people — especially these days — have trouble listening to different viewpoints on politics without getting all crazy. Folks whose political and religious identities are fused into a solid block of devotion are the hardest to reach. Occasionally such people will listen respectfully, but they almost never really listen. This is just my experience, however.
My impression is that the internet is not good for people. Many places online are really toxic, and then there is this tendency, especially on "social" media, to increasingly mingle with people who agree and shun those who disagree. Not even mentioning all kinds of spin, exaggeration and fake news.

Also, it seems like the internet lowers the threshold for many people to become toxic. Many people say things to others they'd never tell a person in the face in "real life". It's easy to forget there is a human being behind the letters you see on your screen.

So I wonder, is it internet communication that has lowered the willingness of people to truly listen to one another -- an observation I agree with, by the way --, or are there other reasons?
 

jwoodie

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And then, there are others for whom religion is less about belief, and more a kind of identity, like national identity is for nationalists: It doesn't matter if you're a "good Christian" or "bad Christian", for example, as long as you are culturally a Christian.
Just when I thought you might be offering an intelligent opinion, you go off on an anti-Christian rant. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it, but as an adult you should be able to differentiate real religious tribalism (e.g., Judaism or Mohammedism) from the diverse religious interpretations that constitute Christianity.
 
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Bernhard

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And then, there are others for whom religion is less about belief, and more a kind of identity, like national identity is for nationalists: It doesn't matter if you're a "good Christian" or "bad Christian", for example, as long as you are culturally a Christian.
Just when I thought you might be offering an intelligent opinion, you go off on an anti-Christian rant. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it, but as an adult you should be able to differentiate real religious tribalism (e.g., Judaism or Mohammedism) from the diverse religious interpretations that constitute Christianity.
Really didn't mean to offend anybody. And I really don't think what I wrote constitutes an "anti-Christian rant".

It's just that in my observation, Christians are really not all that different from other religious groups.
 

ding

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You know how they say with strangers — and sometimes even around the dinner table — it’s best to avoid religion and politics ...

Well, I never had trouble talking about either, and I still really enjoy intelligent conversations with people who disagree. But I find most people — especially these days — have trouble listening to different viewpoints on politics without getting all crazy. Folks whose political and religious identities are fused into a solid block of devotion are the hardest to reach. Occasionally such people will listen respectfully, but they almost never really listen. This is just my experience, however.
My impression is that the internet is not good for people. Many places online are really toxic, and then there is this tendency, especially on "social" media, to increasingly mingle with people who agree and shun those who disagree. Not even mentioning all kinds of spin, exaggeration and fake news.

Also, it seems like the internet lowers the threshold for many people to become toxic. Many people say things to others they'd never tell a person in the face in "real life". It's easy to forget there is a human being behind the letters you see on your screen.

So I wonder, is it internet communication that has lowered the willingness of people to truly listen to one another -- an observation I agree with, by the way --, or are there other reasons?
That's by design. Watch The Social Dilemma.
 

Disir

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I love it when God gets involved in politics. He tells a bunch of people to run and then says, "Ha! Ha!"
There seem to be different kinds of religious people:

Some focus on their belief and the teachings of their religion. They practize their religion and want to be "good".

And then, there are others for whom religion is less about belief, and more a kind of identity, like national identity is for nationalists: It doesn't matter if you're a "good Christian" or "bad Christian", for example, as long as you are culturally a Christian. Just like for, say, German nationalists, you feel closer to a violent criminal German than to a law-abiding foreigner -- because even if you're a convicted criminal, you're still German.

This kind of religion as identity rather than belief, this religious tribalism, often comes with mixing religion with politics. It's what islamists do, and it's what certain Christian "religious right" people do.

What do you think about that? If you're a believer, do you think such an attitude damages the integrity of your faith? And do you think mixing your religion with politics is a good or bad thing?

If you're not religious, what is your take on this?
If you are the type of individual that reads Right Wing Watch and The Raw Story daily, then you might have a warped view of religious people in the US. For most Christians it is a part of their identify and is very much a part of their belief system. You have to have both. This is opposed to those who are in jail where they immediately "remember" they are firm believers in God and Mama.

Unless what you are really after is extremism or fanaticism and it typically lasts about 3 years according to the FBI and then kind of evens out or is dropped all together. That mix of politics and religion is primarily at the top and not the bottom. Rabbi Sacks, with an eye towards the US Jewish communities, warned against mixing religion and politics over the summer.

The conversations online underwent a definite change in direction when candidates began to hire online trolls. Conversations regarding religion online took a turn after that time period of Christopher Hitchens, etc. passed.

Most of the people on this forum are not movers and shakers. They are everyday people, many of whom are older, that are just trying to get by. They aren't engaged in a jihad and are not German nationalists.
 
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