Forced to deny my Christian faith to enter a Christian website? What?

[emilynghiem]

emily, you are truly long suffering and long winded (forgive me). But I truly want to thank you for the link you provided above. Did you actually read the whole thread? It showed yet another site that this guy was banned from and made me search further into his church. He has been banned from many many site over many years now. He has done the same thing everywhere he goes as he did here. Just as I said. Check this one out:

Partnering With Biblocality Forums Made Easy - Christianity Board Helpdesk - Christianity Board Christian Forum

And you are very correct. This individual needs help. And a lot of it. I pray that he doesn't get too many people involved into his cult as it may go down as bad as some of the others we have seen in the past. He has already made one prediction for the end of the world that he has retracted on YouTube.

To finish, check it. I do not believe that Buddhism has anything to do with Christianity. Though I do not know much about it, I still just check it off my list of 'belief' systems. I already said that I do not think that the Jehovah's Witnesses nor the Mormon doctrines are for me; or have it right. I am not a Catholic, don't believe exactly like they do either, think they should do something with all that extra gold, lol. These threads have had me look at the Calvinist doctrine as well. I am not too sure I buy into all of that either. And do not talk to me about pre-thee-post-tribulationism.

But my point is this. At the end of the day I realize that every knee will bend and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord. Jesus Christ sits on the judgement seat, not ME. It is not my job to create dispute within those who confess that Jesus is Lord. I have learned that is why it is called a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

It has never been my job to condemn anyone to Hell and never will be, unlike this guy, which has been doing for years now. That is what has me so worried and why I keep 'nagging' about him with what some would call unforgiveness. I still think he needs to come to Christ because the christ he thinks he is with now is fake. We would know by his fruits, and he has no love. At all.

Thank you teddyearp
I LOVE these two posts

1. B is also for bye bye

2. Lol!...you really are amusing...

If you don't want them on your forum...then why have them at all. Everything we do as believers, has to be motivated by the love of Jesus...your motivation is based on the assumption that you are right and everyone who does not agree with you, is wrong....and therefore, false Christians.


2 Timothy 2 14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

Titus 3
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.

Blessings and bye!!!
===================

Note: I am still one of those diehards who will walk with someone to the ends of the earth to make sure they don't fall in a ditch, even if they dug it themselves.

I still believe all things can be forgiven and corrected and will continue to pray for all openings to be made, and false leads to be shut off to avoid confusion.

There is a narrow path to be found out of even the darkest of woods,
so I pray that way be lit up and made clear.

If I am called to witness, in the midst of entanglements and twisted branches, it will be to hold up a lantern and just shine in whatever tiny corner I am confined to. I've been sent into stranger territory before, we'll see who is called to go where. As I can interpret some good things and good points, I can at least water the seeds that I see as potentially fruitful.

All it takes is a tiny bit of faith, like the seed of a mustard, and a great tree can spring forth.

The rest can be total trash, but if that one seed is right, then that should be the focus
and not thrown out with the rest of the garbage.

You can feed a whole village by growing the one seed and letting that multiply.
We'll see what happens. God's will always prevails and NOTHING surprises me anymore!

 

[teddyearp]

Yes, I believe he was told very well at that site in that thread. But that was just about four years ago to the day. And since he still shows the same inclinations and has not come around to realize that he is NOT on the judgement seat; that is what has me worried.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The dude wants to practice unrighteousness over others.

He is not interested in Christian fellowship whatever, only judging.

He will do here what he has done before if he returns.

He is welcome, this is a free speech site, but no one gets to spam over and over and over because he is told "uh, no, your wrong, and, no, I am not going to Hell regardless of what you you think."

He may be a high functioning autistic with no concept of what is socialization.

 

[teddyearp]

Maybe so. I would welcome him back, but alas, as you said, he will probably do the same thing he has done over the years.

Maybe I will write one of the mods to lift his ban, just for kicks . . . . .

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes, I believe he was told very well at that site in that thread. But that was just about four years ago to the day. And since he still shows the same inclinations and has not come around to realize that he is NOT on the judgement seat; that is what has me worried.

I think this happens until someone DOES set up means to compel questions and corrections.

It must be lonely being so perfect that nobody is good enough to hold such perfect people to their own words!

Everyone else has bailed out and said only God knows and can judge.
But if someone could speak the same language AND point out corrections from that equal grounding,
I think that is the question being begged. And going forum to forum begging to find the perfect person to do this.

Since nobody is perfect enough, this is a backwards way of calling on God to answer.

 

[teddyearp]

It must be lonely being so perfect that nobody is good enough to hold such perfect people to their own words!

Yes and this one sentence that I singled out is soo true in this case. He is so lonely at his site and seeking so much confirmation for his beliefs over the years that he has gone to site after site to try and get them to drive more traffic to his. And the funny thing is that when others react to his posts, he accuses everyone of the very self same things that he has done to them.

I think one of the mods here called him out saying, "same to you but more of it" and said, "I thought we quit doing that in second grade".

 

[emilynghiem]

Maybe so. I would welcome him back, but alas, as you said, he will probably do the same thing he has done over the years.

Maybe I will write one of the mods to lift his ban, just for kicks . . . . .

Thank you JakeStarkey and teddyearp for being such Gentlemen
and compassionate about this as possible.

I did invite two members to come back here and address the issue of questioning
each other's Christian faith.

I do want to support the idea of setting up local rep groups per city to mediate conflicts,
which I saw as a "Spiritual Senate" but focused on Church-State issues of Constitutional
law and inclusion of political beliefs in consensus-based agreements on policies.

I am happy to support the parallel idea of local churches in each region.
But there has to be agreed rules on how to handle secular gentiles as I am
who receive Christ but govern ourselves by natural laws such as in the Constitution.

Others put their beliefs first, and trump or trample right over the next person's beliefs.
I try not to do this, but find this difficult when political beliefs are involved that cross into
govt and rights; where consensus becomes legally necessary to protect beliefs equally.

If people don't allow or don't believe in and seek consensus, that means it is usually
my beliefs that get trampled because I will concede to make sure I'm not the one coercing or violating someone else's
beliefs, while they don't have that restriction on them not to impose that far so it doesn't bother them to impose on me.
That's usually how conflicts end up, because I don't believe in coercion.

If this process of rebuking me as some kind of anomaly or false teacher for teaching that the same Christ Jesus fulfills natural laws for the Gentiles and we are governed by that, and the Bible by free choice where it is needed and consented to freely, would help set up a means of working WITH me to form a consensus, then I would agree to participate.

Even if it means having hell accusations thrown in my face the whole time which I interpret to mean "Objection, Your honor"

I would need to set this up as public, where it is the step of "telling it unto the church".
So to set up the process for doing this "telling unto the church"
I would like it if you two would serve as witnesses that the rebukes were done in an unchristian manner
and need to be corrected, and the other two witnesses if they agree to come back can argue
they are correct and just trying to save other people from hell etc.
and we can discuss what process we do agree to follow to try to establish truth.

We may not agree on all point, like even here, we are not sure if all the parties
count as Christian believers or not; even I may not count by many people's views.
Using natural laws may count as being tied to the material world and not making these new in Christ
where they are of the spiritual realm and no longer corrupted on the worldly level as feared.

So I would be in the same boat as the other(s) equally questioned as not fully Christian.

We can practice going through the process in the Bible of the two Olive trees or witnesses
in sackcloth being questioned before the world and "put to death" in figurative terms
like "assassinating our characters" in public. But for people to question and investigate
to see what goes into our views and what is coming out of them, and decide what part is God's truth or not.

Anyway, just an idea that we could use this process to hash out issues
that need to be investigated and resolved anyway. The idea of organizing
people by groups according to their beliefs is good, but it has to be self-chosen affiliations and not forced by judgment.

The ideas have structure to them that can work, but the method of implementing and herding people around by
commanding and judging is completely off and needs to be replaced with voluntary participation in forming consensus.

We need to organize better through political parties, anyway,
so this idea of organizing by church denominations is the perfect parallel to that.

 

[teddyearp]

emily, your prattelings and long winded posts have me just saying that you are going to Hell!

I kid.

 

[teddyearp]

Nope. Lord forgive me. I'm going to show this little boy he's playing with the big kids now. I'm going to do my best to bury him.

 

[emilynghiem]

emily, your prattelings and long winded posts have me just saying that you are going to Hell!

I kid.

I think I am meant to be punishment on people who are asking for that.
Not you. Since you can forgive it, and laugh at it hopefully, it doesn't hurt you.
Only people who are horrified and cannot forgive.

For someone who thinks people are going to hell for
tolerating Buddhists, Universalists and Constitutionalists like me
supporting free exercise of religion within the
bounds of peaceful due process and equal protections of the law,
their "unforgiveness" only hurts them. That is why I pray they don't hurt themselves this way.

Such persons are setting themselves up to suffer, if not from endless lectures from me
if that is what they keep asking for. So to each his own rightful desserts!
A la flambe if that's what the person keeps asking for.
Sure, I can add all the hot sauce they want.

I've gone through my own hell and have walked people back from their own.
I should just agree, and quit arguing.

I should make it clear I am a secular gentile and live by natural laws.
And yes that includes Jesus and the Bible, but not where it violates natural laws
of freedom, justice and peace. I just read on a website where Christians are
called not to resist govt authority or those opposed will receive condemnation.
https://carm.org/governments

Because of this, my historic church neighborhood is almost completely destroyed
because the older traditional church leaders did not want to sue the city govt.
They didn't understand that if the city is not respecting rights equally, then it is okay
to petition other authorities to step in and enforce the Constitutional laws that are given by God.
So the city takes advantage of the Christian faith of these older historic community churches,
and pressures them to give up their land instead of "fighting" legally or politically which they
believe is resisting and disobedient to God.

Unless the city govt AGREES to respect this belief, it is unfair to hold them to such standards,
but they believe that even if they are persecuted this is supposed to serve as faithful witnesses
to God. So they believe this is still glorifying God.

This is where I question that I may be more of a Constitutionalist before I am a Christian submitting to God's will to take place without further action. I do believe more petitioning is supposed to be done instead of waiting on God.

So I am basically enforcing Constitutional laws on equal protections
the same way Christians would enforce Biblical laws.

And I don't consider that "resisting" authority but enforcing the Constitutional laws
I believe are given by God.

If I am supposed to sit back and let Govt be abused to run over people's rights,
and to destroy national history at taxpayers' expense, even historic Black churches built by Freed Slaves that are unique as the only district in America of its kind,
and that is supposed to glorify God, then I am not a very good Christian.

So maybe it is true I am not obedient to God's laws in the Bible as sufficient to themselves.

And maybe it would be an enlightening exercise to put my beliefs to the test,
to show where I believe natural laws and scriptural laws check and balance each other,
and how we need both. And decide if I am a heretic, blasphemer, apostate, or
alien from another dimension for saying this is God's plan to enforce all laws in harmony.

And if that makes me "not a Christian" then I am happy to be examined
publicly, and have a consensus if this is consistent with Christianity or against it.

Could be a very productive exercise, where I will ask to prove my point that
the key issue is forgiveness and unforgiveness, and that this can even be
proven scientifically because it is universal as a natural law affecting all humans.

That would be good to prove anyway, so this can be the springboard for that.
So even if I get booed, with eggs and tomatoes thrown at me as a false prophet
or spawn of Satan, at least spiritual healing can be publicized as provable by science.

I can go down in flames but some truth will get out that is good for the public to know.

Lots of people will come forward to agree with my accusers.
So I'd like to set up rules for how this should be conducted,
and put me and my challenger(s) up on the witness stand and start testifying.

Who knows, maybe we could get our own reality show where
people can watch this circus go on, between apostles and whatever alien
being I am from another planet who thinks human beings can reach a consensus. What fun.

I will ask to start taking bets that a consensus on God can be reached by
reconciling all beliefs in Christ Jesus as "Restorative Justice," and a consensus on law can follow,
and raise money to buy out and preserve the history in my home church district as a campus model for
teaching sustainable programs for training Vets and community leaders in self-government and management.

So even if I get "stoned to death" in the process of negotiating all this consensus
between religious and political groups, at least the proceeds can go to a good cause, and teach all
communities to become self-governing and self-sustaining under Constitutional principles
and Christian spiritual healing to end all causes of conflicts, oppression, abuses, crime and violence.

What a terrible Buddhist I must be, to want to end the cause of suffering,
and teach that Constitutional and Christian laws are given by God to this end.

Who the heck teaches that and expects not to go to hell for it????

 

[teddyearp]

Emily, I hope you saw my post humorous, albeit perhaps at your expense.

But God forgive me, I Wiill bury Pattie(parture)

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily, I hope you saw my post humorous, albeit perhaps at your expense.

But God forgive me, I Wiill bury Pattie(parture)

See: Troy Brooks Biblocality

^ I don't think any help is needed in that category ^
Some people are plenty ADEPT at digging their own graves.
And burying themselves 6 miles under.

I'm more concerned with helping such persons to dig themselves back out. Poor lost soul !
This isn't evil it's purely lacking of any faith or trust at all. At least evil knows what it is doing.

I'm more concerned about the building the right kind of help and support
that is clearly missing here: https://atheistforums.org/thread-8940.html

I'm beginning to feel bad, and feel I really should do more to refer the right kind of help.
I've dealt with worse than this. No one should have to suffer like this, terrible!

 

[The Irish Ram]

I know I have made some mistakes, I was in some ways 'hostile' in the tone of some of my posts. But isn't ignoring questions and others' posts and just blanket condemning everyone to Hell hostile even more? However that too is wrong of me, I should just forgive. And I should not let this guy bug me so much, but he really does. Over at his forum site, he trashes everyone to Hell. Everyone who does not believe exactly as he does. He even claims that if you pick your nose, you are going to Hell.

Really?

I made a comment on one of his videos on youtube which he promptly deleted and now has sent me three messages through youtube already today. One was to point out a post he has made at his forum site trashing emily, maxgrit, ninja, Jake, this whole site and I. And sure enough it is there. And it is taunting us to reply by saying something like, "Lets see how they respond to this" as if we could even get through the registration process let alone not have any of our posts and accounts immediately deleted.

I was reading Luke today and found that this guys claim that we sleep until (??whenever he says) and stuff, but there it was with the rich man and the beggar in Luke 16 verse 19 to the end of the chapter. The rich man looked across and say and talked to the beggar in Abraham's bosom.

But this is still a weakness of mine. I was reading Matthew 18:21-35 last night about forgiving my brother 70 times and read the parable of the king and the servant who owed the king 10,000 dinari. I feel as though I have the rage of the forgiven subject when I want to strangle Parture for his wrongs against me.

Sorry for such a long post. Help!

The Jews had a practice of forgiving 7 times. When asked about it Christ told them in essence to forgive as many times as is necessary. Not so much for the one needing forgiveness, but for the forgiver as well. Acid destroys the vessel that it is in...

 

[emilynghiem]

Here, what do you think of this coming out statement.

Coming out as a Constitutionalist
Hi I found this forum by accident,
looking up a "trail of disasters" online left by a former user who was spamming other forums.

After being banned from that user's own site that "they" were promoting (it turned out to be one person under several names), I realized maybe it was better to identify as a Constitutionalist under natural laws and not call myself a Christian if people assume I follow the Bible literally, which I do not. I didn't want to cause any further confusion, as I seemed to have alienated people with my views of Universalism and Buddhism I was told cannot be Christian though I disagree.

So I may be coming out as a secular gentile Constitutionalist, and only under "free exercise of religion" do I believe in the Bible as a free choice to follow where needed, as with other Christians who use that. I believe the message and faith in Christianity is independent of the Bible, and can be expressed using any venue needed for someone to relate to, including Buddhism and Constitutionalism I found to be consistent and complementary. But I was accused of teaching false Universalist heresies and told I cannot be Christian and teach that all people and all paths lead to the same truth through Christ Jesus. Since I now question if I can be Christian, that makes me agnostic.

If I am expected to put faith in the literal Bible above free speech and freedom of religion, and right to petition even Government to redress grievances, no, I am not giving up my religious freedom and belief in consent by educated choice, to "force" unity by making threats of sending people to hell as I ran across on that website. If that is what it means to be Christian, then no thanks I must not be one because I believe we can establish truth by free will and reason, and yes I do believe in invoking the authority of Christ Jesus as "Restorative Justice" to establish consensus on law and justice. But no, I don't believe in condemning people to hell, and I do believe it is God's plan that all people and all paths find unity in truth but by free choice and not fear-based coercion and bullying.

So I may be agnostic if my beliefs are not yet proven about God creating natural laws, and Christ Jesus fulfilling them, and it is not acceptable for secular gentiles like me to follow and consider this consistent with Christian faith.

Until this is PROVEN to be agreed upon and consistent with Christianity then technically I "don't know" if it is the universal truth or not.
I believe it can be proven by consensus, but of course I can be wrong, so that means I "don't know" which means agnostic.

I believe that God and Jesus can be understood and translated into any other religions or even secular terms, but until this is proven by consensus then "I don't know" if I am following the same "God and Jesus" as Christians who use the Bible to confirm agreement. I use natural laws with other secular nontheists, and I was using Biblical laws with Christians, and Constitutional laws with other naturalists.

But since it came under question whether I am teaching the same things that Christians teach using the Bible, or I am teaching something conflicting or inconsistent, then until there is a consensus (as I believe in) then it isn't proven and I "don't know yet."

Thanks to the previous user for leading me here,
and I hope my experience can help other people who have felt as left out of whatever loop other people are on.

I believe Christ Jesus means Restorative Justice and anyone can believe in that, live by and establish that by practicing forgiveness and correction for conscience sake, and reach agreement on the same truth that sets humanity free from strife and suffering. If people use the Bible for this, or the Constitution and Bill of Rights as I do, all laws are fulfilled in the same spirit of Universal Justice as Jesus represents, whether we personify God or not. So I don't see any reason to discriminate against people who are nontheistic or secular in our views of life and ways of communicating these.

Thank you,
Emily Nghiem

 

[ninja007]

I received a rebuke as well.

He is really ticked off that he would be corrected for unchristian like behavior.

link?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Many times above. Also I will not give personal links to myself off the Board.

 

[emilynghiem]

I received a rebuke as well.

He is really ticked off that he would be corrected for unchristian like behavior.

To some people it is more unchristian to say things out of unity in Christ.
If they don't understand Christian forgiveness, and think 'false Christians' are enabling
wrongs to continue by being too forgiving, then this is what they are missing from us.

In order to teach them that forgiveness allows correction, not denies correction,
then this has to be "demonstrated" to them using their own situation.
but all they see is rejection of them so they see this as unchristian
when they are honestly trying from their viewpoint to share corrections in Christ.

So to demonstrate this connection with forgiveness from their experience
1. they need to see where they could have been rejected and judged
for doing the same things they fault others for
such as using multiple accounts if that was not allowed for others
or not speaking with others in a way they understand
and then judging them for being rejected when even the
Bible warns against not presenting the Gospel as the person originally heard it
or even angels will be accursed by the recipient
2. then when they understand they are also being forgiven and accepted anyway,
despite these flaws, they can see what it takes to share between Christians
instead of what they were doing that was getting rejected.

same with JW (for example, to get them to stop rejecting people over using
the word Trinity, I show them that they could be rejected for using the term
Active Force instead of Comforter or Helper which is in the Bible. and we
agree to stick with Father/Son/HolySpirit which is in the Bible, so it is equal)

it wasn't because we weren't both Christians
it was because we weren't forgiving our differences in communication
so we thought each other weren't Christians
3. once we agree to receive each other as Christians
then we can correct the actual content
but not in a state of division and rejection over how we say things

so we aren't even succeeding at the first step
which is to receive a child who comes in the name of Jesus*

after we agree to receive each other
then we can share rebukes and corrections in Christ

and after we form a consensus then we establish
agreement on God's truth and can tell that unto the church

*And on that note, if the only way they agree to receive and hear me
is to assume I am agnostic then we start from there.
and if I can prove a consensus on my views and theirs then we
can show that we are both Christians. Since my views depend on a consensus
then it may take forming a public consensus including them
before this interpretation is proven to be consistent and unifying as the same faith.

 

[teddyearp]

The Jews had a practice of forgiving 7 times. When asked about it Christ told them in essence to forgive as many times as is necessary. Not so much for the one needing forgiveness, but for the forgiver as well. Acid destroys the vessel that it is in...

Yes, I see that. I am thankful I was able to rant off the other night, and forgive me for doing so, but as so well pointed out above, I need to spit out the acid and just move on.

 

[emilynghiem]

The Jews had a practice of forgiving 7 times. When asked about it Christ told them in essence to forgive as many times as is necessary. Not so much for the one needing forgiveness, but for the forgiver as well. Acid destroys the vessel that it is in...

Yes, I see that. I am thankful I was able to rant off the other night, and forgive me for doing so, but as so well pointed out above, I need to spit out the acid and just move on.

Ha ha unlike me the unfortunate universalist who believes everyone will be witnessed to
until they understand and receive. And thus my compassion and concern will continue
to include even those who reject me as going to hell. I have to agree, that is what I go through
to reach agreement with such persons. And we always end up in a better place afterwards,
so it merely strengthens my faith that more people can be saved by inclusion rather than rejection.

 

[teddyearp]

emily, just because one of my earlier posts said I do not think that Buddhism and universaism is what I believe in; I pray that you got the rest of my post.

Just to make it clear. Even though there are certain parts and sects and even denominations of those who profess faith in Jesus Christ and post here that I do not believe in, that does in no way mean that I agree that those who do not believe exactly as I do are going to Hell.

If you claim Jesus Christ as the 'one' then who am I to judge? I am sure I will have many many shames at the judgement seat.