Zone1 For those who've ever wondered if they can or will be saved....

I never said that. All I have done is ask you to explain how you stole Jewish writings changed them and created a religion based on lies that worships an idol.
Nothing was stolen. Jesus did his best to correct your religious misconceptions.
I dont think Christians are inferior.
Sure you do. This is just another example of you not owning your beliefs. Apparently you know saying Christians are inferior is wrong but you still think it. Because you can't say you believe Christians stole Jewish writings and worship an idol and not believe they are inferior.
I can live with you thinking that about me. It's not so bad.
 
  • Historical Analysis: Scholars at institutions like Cambridge University argue that while these narratives reflect a "genocidal impulse" in early literature, it is difficult to determine through archaeology whether these events occurred exactly as described or if the violence met modern definitions of genocide.
    Cambridge University Press & Assessment
But we do know as fact that the Catholic Church protected gay priests who sexually abused boys for decades and that protection came from the Vatican.
Is this your way of admitting that ancient Israelites committed genocide and blamed it on God?
 
But we do know as fact that the Catholic Church protected gay priests who sexually abused boys for decades and that protection came from the Vatican.
My wish is that all of us are judged by our worst moments or none of us are judged by our worst moments. But I doubt any of us will be judged by the actions of others.
 
And you don't know the answer one way or the other so choosing your own path is the most sensible thing to do.
For the Christian, there is only one path to Heaven. The one who cleared the path for us is Jesus Christ. No other paths will get you there. But he is happy to give his credentials, to those who accept Him into their hearts, to enter Heaven with.

John 14:6 NIV Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.​

 
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 14:6 NIV Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It is true that if you take Jesus out of the picture, no amount of works will save us. So we are all dependent upon the grace of Jesus Christ for our salvation. Jesus is the Savior and he decides who he will save and who he will not. The problem we run into is that there are those who think that they do not need to do anything and possibly believe that they can sin all they wish and Jesus will save them into the kingdom of heaven. However, this is not what Jesus taught. He taught that even though our works do not save us into the kingdom of God, he still requires us to do good works before he will save us with his grace.


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

From these verses we learn that even though works are not what saves, we are still required to engage in doing the works of righteousness before we will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven. Paul tells the Ephesians that our works are not what saves us but that salvation only comes by the grace of Jesus Christ. However, only those who do the will of the Father will find entrance into the kingdom of heaven and that we were all created in Christ Jesus unto good works. So even though our works do not save us, they are required of us before Jesus will grant his saving grace. The verse above tells us that we are only saved by grace but that it is also through faith that we obtain that grace. Paul has also taught that in order to have faith you must have works, for faith without works is dead.

James 2:17-26
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So based on these verses, faith without works is a dead faith. You must do good works to maintain a living faith in Jesus Christ. And, as stated before, we receive the saving grace of Jesus Christ through exercising faith in Jesus Christ even though it is not our works that do the saving.
 
It is true that if you take Jesus out of the picture, no amount of works will save us. So we are all dependent upon the grace of Jesus Christ for our salvation. Jesus is the Savior and he decides who he will save and who he will not. The problem we run into is that there are those who think that they do not need to do anything and possibly believe that they can sin all they wish and Jesus will save them into the kingdom of heaven. However, this is not what Jesus taught. He taught that even though our works do not save us into the kingdom of God, he still requires us to do good works before he will save us with his grace.


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

From these verses we learn that even though works are not what saves, we are still required to engage in doing the works of righteousness before we will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven. Paul tells the Ephesians that our works are not what saves us but that salvation only comes by the grace of Jesus Christ. However, only those who do the will of the Father will find entrance into the kingdom of heaven and that we were all created in Christ Jesus unto good works. So even though our works do not save us, they are required of us before Jesus will grant his saving grace. The verse above tells us that we are only saved by grace but that it is also through faith that we obtain that grace. Paul has also taught that in order to have faith you must have works, for faith without works is dead.

James 2:17-26
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So based on these verses, faith without works is a dead faith. You must do good works to maintain a living faith in Jesus Christ. And, as stated before, we receive the saving grace of Jesus Christ through exercising faith in Jesus Christ even though it is not our works that do the saving.


Yes.....they do go hand in hand. Our God given faith is to transform us to want to do His good works.
 
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If you are correct that would make Christ a liar. I don't believe He is.
No, you are wrong. YOU are saying it would make Jesus a liar. I didn't say that. I said that the claim "no other path will get you to heaven" is a lie. We can discuss whether it is Jesus (personally), you (personally), or Christianity (as an entity) that is lying but I don't want to get into that stuff. The subject is heaven, not who is responsible for misrepresenting it.
What are some of the other paths you speak of that get you into Heaven?
You need to understand what "the chosen people means". It doesn't mean what you think it does. If you really want to know just ask me.
 
A lighthearted explanation, but is the foundation of our faith........



^ This reminds me of another video...."The Good-O-Meter"

As you said in post #3, it's not what you know or what you do... it's WHO you know.

(the thumbnail is blurry, but the video quality isn't as bad... even tho it's an old video.)

 
No, you are wrong. YOU are saying it would make Jesus a liar. I didn't say that. I said that the claim "no other path will get you to heaven" is a lie. We can discuss whether it is Jesus (personally), you (personally), or Christianity (as an entity) that is lying but I don't want to get into that stuff. The subject is heaven, not who is responsible for misrepresenting it.

You need to understand what "the chosen people means". It doesn't mean what you think it does. If you really want to know just ask me.
You claim many ways. Jesus said one way. Both statements can't be true, so If Christ is right, then you are the liar. If you are right, then Christ is the liar. And we know He isn't a liar, so that leaves you.

Anyone who has picked up a Bible knows who the chosen people are, and why:

Amos 3:1-2
Hear this word which the Lord has spoken against you, sons of Israel, against the entire family which He brought up from the land of Egypt: “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth

Deut. 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth

Deut 7:7
Not because ye were more in number than all the peoples, hath Jehovah been attached to you and chosen you, for ye are the fewest of all the peoples


It's about on every page, so it's hard to miss. In fact, the Bible is the history of the Jews from beginning to eternity...
 
You claim many ways.
I stand by that.
Jesus said one way.
What makes you think he said that?
Both statements can't be true
Of course not.
so If Christ is right
Right about what?
then you are the liar.
I can assure you that I am not a liar, but you might be.
If you are right, then Christ is the liar.
No, you are the one who claims that .... not me.
And we know He isn't a liar
You don't know one way or the other. You're just making it up. You are calling Jesus a liar, I'm not.
Anyone who has picked up a Bible knows who the chosen people are, and why:
You picked up a bible, right? Then why do you not know what "the chosen people" means? Come on, tell me what you think it means. I don't think you can. You don't know what it means because if you did know then you wouldn't need to ask me, "What are some of the other paths that get you into Heaven?" You see. YOU DON'T KNOW. ➡️That's the proof that you don't know.
 
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I stand by that.

What makes you think he said that?

Of course not.

Right about what?

I can assure you that I am not a liar, but you might be.

No, you are the one who claims that .... not me.

You don't know one way or the other. You're just making it up. You are calling Jesus a liar, I'm not.

You picked up a bible, right? Then why do you not know what "the chosen people" means? Come on, tell what you think it means. I don't think you can. You don't know what it means because if you did know then you wouldn't need to ask me, "What are some of the other paths that get you into Heaven?" You see. YOU DON'T KNOW. ➡️That's the proof that you don't know.
Two can play your silly game:

As you should. Even if it is erroneous.

What makes you think He didn't?

Then one is a lie.

What we are discussing. Try to keep up.

You are.

No I did not.

Of course I do. Jesus said, one way, you say many ways. Jesus doesn't lie, sooo

The chosen ones are the ones Jesus said were chosen.

Why don't you dazzle us with more of your Biblical knowledge:
1. Who do you call God's chosen people?
2. And what on earth do you do with this?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.​

^^^^^
3. Who is telling the truth, Jesus or you?
4. And if you are the one telling the truth, would you please give us all some examples of how to get to Heaven without Jesus...
 
Two can play your silly game:
I am not playing a game. This is very serious stuff. You are getting increasingly frustrated but that’s your fault. I am writing words here but you are not reading them. You are adding words that do not exist. Calm yourself, read my words, do not read words that are not there.
What makes you think He didn't?
.
Let’s get back to basics. Who said he did? It's not important what I think he said or didn't say. It is important what you think he said.
Then one is a lie..
Well, if you claim he told you then I can guess it is you who is telling a lie. So? Did he tell you? Yes or no? Just answer me calmly. No games here. No fingers pointed at who's a liar or who isn't The lying game is your fixation, not mine.
What we are discussing. Try to keep up.
Your frustration is going to give you an ulcer if you don’t calm down. No games. Be honest.
No I did not.
Yes you did. It is you (not me) who is trying to pit me against Jesus. I am not doing that. You are doing it. You are saying VERY CLEARLY that either I am lying or Jesus is lying. That is what you are saying. I never said that and I never will say it. Why? The reason is that I am not lying and I really don't think Jesus was lying either.
Of course I do. Jesus said, one way, you say many ways. Jesus doesn't lie, sooo
Did Jesus tell you that? I don’t like coming back to the same point but I’d like to know where you get the idea that Jesus said that. Please answer that question this time. No games. Stop playing games.
The chosen ones are the ones Jesus said were chosen.
You know very well it wasn't Jesus who said that.
Why don't you dazzle us with more of your Biblical knowledge
I am not here to play games or dazzle. This is serious stuff.
Who do you call God's chosen people?
Once again you are fixated on "who" rather than what. The BIG QUESTION is not who “the chosen people” are but what it means. You should really stop evading the issue. What are “the chosen people” chosen for? What are they meant to do? Be honest and admit that you don’t know. You-don’t-know.

Understanding the meaning of “the chosen people” is 50% of knowing/understanding the other ways of coming to heaven. You MUST come to terms with that concept or you will forever be lost in ignorance.

NOTE: I am not trying to convert you or dislodge you from your faith. It is only you who can make such decisions. You can continue having faith in whatever it is you believe in and you have my blessing. But ... you asked me what other ways there are to come to Heaven and I am trying to tell you in a way that does not discredit Jesus. Is that not what you want?
 
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RECAP

Understanding the meaning of “the chosen people” is 50% of knowing/understanding the other ways of coming to heaven. You MUST come to terms with that concept or you will forever be lost in ignorance.

NOTE: I am not trying to convert you or dislodge you from your faith. It is only you who can make such decisions. You can continue having faith in whatever it is you believe in and you have my blessing. But ... you asked me what other ways there are to come to Heaven and I am trying to tell you in a way that does not discredit Jesus.
THE BOTTOM LINE

The Irish Ram

buttercup

JustAnotherNut

onefour1

Meriweather

Ace Nova


Do you people now understand what I am trying to tell you? Judaism provides the basis and fundamental rules for the Monotheist teachings. God expects the Jews [His “Chosen People”] to follow more than 600 commandments. That is what He chose them for. THAT is what “the chosen people" means. THAT is God’s requirement for the Jews. But God has decreed that every non-Jew need only adhere to Ten Commands. That was God's will before Jesus was even born so this "one way" makes no sense. Quite simply EVERYONE of every faith has the opportunity to come to Heaven. :eusa_pray:
 
15th post
RECAP


THE BOTTOM LINE


The Irish Ram

buttercup

JustAnotherNut

onefour1

Meriweather

Ace Nova


Do you people now understand what I am trying to tell you? Judaism provides the basis and fundamental rules for the Monotheist teachings. God expects the Jews [His “Chosen People”] to follow more than 600 commandments. That is what He chose them for. THAT is what “the chosen people" means. THAT is God’s requirement for the Jews. But God has decreed that every non-Jew need only adhere to Ten Commands. That was God's will before Jesus was even born so this "one way" makes no sense. Quite simply EVERYONE of every faith has the opportunity to come to Heaven. :eusa_pray:

Not true. No Jew, or no anyone, has ever gone to heaven by following the law. God's method of eternal life with Him is 'by faith'.

God established that long before He created the nation of Israel. (Gen. 15:6) "And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness." And that faith is directed at the true and only God.

Thus the Israelites that made up the believing Israel were those that put the blood on the doorposts of their house at the Passover. Any Israelite who did not would have lost his first born also. Their were plenty of others in Egypt who were of another religion, another 'faith'. But they lost their first born because the One true God demanded blood on the doorposts of the house.

That faith was directed at the blood. The whole sacrificial system of Israel pointed to the blood. The whole sacrificial system pointed to the blood of Jesus Christ. No other belief or faith gets one into heaven. No other blood gets one into heaven. It's faith in Jesus Christ and His Blood alone.

The blood of animals on a doorpost will not get anyone into heaven. Faith in the One that blood pointed to does. Jesus Christ.

Quantrill
 
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Not true. No Jew, or no anyone, has ever gone to heaven by following the law. l
Oh yes, it is true. Everyone in Heaven was allowed entry by following God's Commandments. Just ask them and they will tell you. God said so long before Jesus was born so your theory is incorrect. God wants EVERYONE to have a chance to Heaven. That's why He made the commandments. So be it. So it is. 🙏
 
Oh yes, it is true. Everyone in Heaven was allowed entry by following God's Commandments. Just ask them and they will tell you. God said so long before Jesus was born so your theory is incorrect. God wants EVERYONE to have a chance to Heaven. That's why He made the commandments. So be it. So it is. 🙏

No, it is not true. No one gets to heaven by following commandments or laws.

This is why Abram was not declared righteous in (Gen. 12:4) when he obeyed God and left Ur to go to the land God promised him. Abram and Sari couldn't have children and were getting older. Thus when God gave Abram the promise of a son born of him, Abram could do nothing but believe. Which resulted in his being declared righteous. (Gen. 15:6)

And being declared righteous is the only thing that gets one to heaven.

Everyone has the 'chance' to get to Heaven because the offer to come to Jesus Christ is too all. (John 3:15-16)

Quantrill
 
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