Zone1 For those who've ever wondered if they can or will be saved....

[Ace Nova]

Catholic teaching presents salvation as an ongoing process where one is free from sin and its consequences. The starting point is grace from God to repent (turn away from sin) accepting this inspiration from God to walk in this new way of life here in the present. The way is eternal, and it begins now and continues on forever.

Perhaps the question can also be phrased as, Are you being saved? This keeps us in the present tense.

Well said.

Out of curiosity - when we profess the Nicene Creed and State, "We confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins"

What does that mean? And what does that mean to you?

 

[Meriweather]

Well said.

Out of curiosity - when we profess the Nicene Creed and State, "We confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins"

What does that mean? And what does that mean to you?

I see it as Baptism being one's entrance into the Body of Christ and kingdom living where sins are forgiven. Historically speaking, it is evident people saw baptism as the forgiveness of Original Sin--and all sins they had committed up to the time of their baptism. Some people were waiting until they were older or close to death to be baptized so that all their sins committed in this life were forgiven.

Even in my earliest Bible studies of the Gospels, I found it interesting Jesus always used the present tense....Your sins are forgiven. There was never any future tense such as Sins will be forgiven when I make my sacrifice for you or Sins will be forgiven upon Baptism.

Baptism is the symbol/statement of our belief in the Way of life Jesus taught, where sins are forgiveness.

 

[Meriweather]

THen you admit no one needs to believe in Jesus

Two thoughts: Do you separate the Word of God from God? Christians believe Jesus is the Word of God and thus God. Is it your thought people can believe in God without believing in the Word of God?

Second: Catholic belief is that God is the final judge. If for whatever reason(s) the Church cannot reach an individual with the Good News of God, that does not lessen the power of God, making Him unable to reach/touch an individual the Church/Body of Christ was unable to reach. Jesus told a parable where the Kingdom of God was like a man who found a treasure of great worth in a field, and sold all he had to purchase that field and gain possession of that treasure. Then he stated the Kingdom of God was also searching for pearls of great worth to bring into that Kingdom.

 

[Hafar1014]

Two thoughts: Do you separate the Word of God from God? Christians believe Jesus is the Word of God and thus God. Is it your thought people can believe in God without believing in the Word of God?

Second: Catholic belief is that God is the final judge. If for whatever reason(s) the Church cannot reach an individual with the Good News of God, that does not lessen the power of God, making Him unable to reach/touch an individual the Church/Body of Christ was unable to reach. Jesus told a parable where the Kingdom of God was like a man who found a treasure of great worth in a field, and sold all he had to purchase that field and gain possession of that treasure. Then he stated the Kingdom of God was also searching for pearls of great worth to bring into that Kingdom.

I made a simple point everyone goes into the after life. Its not sectarian.
There is no word of God there are words people claim are the word of God when its their words.

The Catholic Church protected child abusing pedophile priests, created the Inquisition, fought adoptees ability to know their birth families to protect nuns who were made pregnant by priests and forced to have their children adopted. I dont think they know the word of God

 

[Ace Nova]

I see it as Baptism being one's entrance into the Body of Christ and kingdom living where sins are forgiven. Historically speaking, it is evident people saw baptism as the forgiveness of Original Sin--and all sins they had committed up to the time of their baptism. Some people were waiting until they were older or close to death to be baptized so that all their sins committed in this life were forgiven.

Even in my earliest Bible studies of the Gospels, I found it interesting Jesus always used the present tense....Your sins are forgiven. There was never any future tense such as Sins will be forgiven when I make my sacrifice for you or Sins will be forgiven upon Baptism.

Baptism is the symbol/statement of our belief in the Way of life Jesus taught, where sins are forgiveness.

Yes - Jesus and the Gospels are spoken in present tense because the words and works of Jesus come from the Father and are powered by the Holy Spirit.

John 8:

The scribes and the Pharisees brought in a woman who had been caught in adultery. Forcing her to stand in their midst, they said to him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. What do you have to say?”

They asked him this question as a test so that they could bring a charge against him. Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they continued to persist in their question, he straightened up and said to them, “Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her. Then he again bent down and wrote on the ground.

When they heard his response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders, until Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” ;She replied, “No one, sir.”

(Here is an instance when Jesus speaks in future tense

Neither do I condemn you,” Jesus said. “Go on your way, and sin no more.”

 

[Meriweather]

I made a simple point everyone goes into the after life. Its not sectarian.
There is no word of God there are words people claim are the word of God when its their words.

The Catholic Church protected child abusing pedophile priests, created the Inquisition, fought adoptees ability to know their birth families to protect nuns who were made pregnant by priests and forced to have their children adopted. I dont think they know the word of God

Knock it off. You know next to nothing about pedophilia in society, the Inquisition, and even adoptees and society's rules regarding them. That is an example of both, A little knowledge is a dangerous thing AND A lot of ignorance is even worse. Bashing to lift up oneself or one's point only shows weakness and insecurity.

Yes, everyone goes into the afterlife--but do all go into the same kind of afterlife? NDE suggests not.

 

[Hafar1014]

Knock it off. You know next to nothing about pedophilia in society, the Inquisition, and even adoptees and society's rules regarding them. That is an example of both, A little knowledge is a dangerous thing AND A lot of ignorance is even worse. Bashing to lift up oneself or one's point only shows weakness and insecurity.

Yes, everyone goes into the afterlife--but do all go into the same kind of afterlife? NDE suggests not.

If you google my name redacted
is a therapist, author, and adoption law activist. Born on January 25, 1953, in Jersey City, New Jersey, he is an adoptee who has dedicated much of his professional life to supporting other adoptees and their families.
Quora +4

Professional Work & Advocacy

• Adoption Specialist: He is the founder and Executive Director of Adoption Education & Family Counseling LLC, located in Warrington, Pennsylvania. He focuses on training professionals and helping families navigate the unique emotional complexities of adoption.
• Legislative Activist: has testified multiple times before the New Jersey Senate and Assembly and the Pennsylvania House of Representatives on pending adoption legislation, particularly advocating for adoptees' right to access their original birth records.
• Published Author: He wrote the book Not Remembered, Never Forgotten: An Adoptee’s Search for His Birth Family, which chronicles his personal journey to find his biological family starting at age 52.
• Academic Contributions: He has published articles in peer-reviewed journals, such as the International Journal of Trauma Research and Practice, regarding the inherent trauma associated with adoption and the importance of secure attachment.
  Amazon.com +8

Background & Education
holds a Master's degree in Counseling Psychology from Holy Family University and a BS/CTRS in Therapeutic Recreation from Temple University. Earlier in his career, he was a wheelchair weightlifting coach for Magee Rehabilitation Hospital, leading a team that set world records in the Paralympics.

 

[Meriweather]

If you google my name redacted
is a therapist, author, and adoption law activist. Born on January 25, 1953, in Jersey City, New Jersey, he is an adoptee who has dedicated much of his professional life to supporting other adoptees and their families.
Quora +4

Professional Work & Advocacy

• Adoption Specialist: He is the founder and Executive Director of Adoption Education & Family Counseling LLC, located in Warrington, Pennsylvania. He focuses on training professionals and helping families navigate the unique emotional complexities of adoption.
• Legislative Activist: has testified multiple times before the New Jersey Senate and Assembly and the Pennsylvania House of Representatives on pending adoption legislation, particularly advocating for adoptees' right to access their original birth records.
• Published Author: He wrote the book Not Remembered, Never Forgotten: An Adoptee’s Search for His Birth Family, which chronicles his personal journey to find his biological family starting at age 52.
• Academic Contributions: He has published articles in peer-reviewed journals, such as the International Journal of Trauma Research and Practice, regarding the inherent trauma associated with adoption and the importance of secure attachment.
  Amazon.com +8

Background & Education
holds a Master's degree in Counseling Psychology from Holy Family University and a BS/CTRS in Therapeutic Recreation from Temple University. Earlier in his career, he was a wheelchair weightlifting coach for Magee Rehabilitation Hospital, leading a team that set world records in the Paralympics.

You already told me that. You know one side of a polygon.

 

[Hafar1014]

You already told me that. You know one side of a polygon.

I know every side. I also worked for Catholic Social Services

 

[Hafar1014]

I see it as Baptism being one's entrance into the Body of Christ and kingdom living where sins are forgiven. Historically speaking, it is evident people saw baptism as the forgiveness of Original Sin--and all sins they had committed up to the time of their baptism. Some people were waiting until they were older or close to death to be baptized so that all their sins committed in this life were forgiven.

Even in my earliest Bible studies of the Gospels, I found it interesting Jesus always used the present tense....Your sins are forgiven. There was never any future tense such as Sins will be forgiven when I make my sacrifice for you or Sins will be forgiven upon Baptism.

Baptism is the symbol/statement of our belief in the Way of life Jesus taught, where sins are forgiveness.

There is no original sin or fall of man in Genesis.

 

[Hafar1014]

Catholic teaching presents salvation as an ongoing process where one is free from sin and its consequences. The starting point is grace from God to repent (turn away from sin) accepting this inspiration from God to walk in this new way of life here in the present. The way is eternal, and it begins now and continues on forever.

Perhaps the question can also be phrased as, Are you being saved? This keeps us in the present tense.

Catholicism puts people in a constant state of sin in need of confession on reguar basis. Thoughts can be sins thats how manipulative this religion is

 

[Meriweather]

I know every side. I also worked for Catholic Social Services

So? You have empathy/choose one point and ignore/dismiss those that don't match your own conclusion.

 

[Meriweather]

There is no original sin or fall of man in Genesis.

Not that you are able to see, discern, or understand. Are there any Just So stories you do comprehend?

 

[Hafar1014]

So? You have empathy/choose one point and ignore/dismiss those that don't match your own conclusion.

I post what I think you post what you think I couldnt care less if you agree or not

 

[Hafar1014]

I post what I think you post what you think I couldnt care less if you agree or not. However your statement I dont know anything was pure BS

 

[Meriweather]

Catholicism puts people in a constant state of sin in need of confession on reguar basis.

Give a precise example of how Catholicism does that. Then we can discuss how Catholicism also notes the state of grace available.

 

[Meriweather]

I post what I think you post what you think I couldnt care less if you agree or not

What does agreement have to do with the price of tea in China? The point is not to get anyone to agree, but to understand different perspectives--especially those not one's own. You do not share your own perspective--you bash the perspectives of others, which is why you are seen as a troll. You cannot find one good thing to say about any other approach other than your own. The reason I can, at times, be patient with you is because my mom was that way, too. She saw in black and white--as do you. I see in shades of grey.

 

[Hafar1014]

What does agreement have to do with the price of tea in China? The point is not to get anyone to agree, but to understand different perspectives--especially those not one's own. You do not share your own perspective--you bash the perspectives of others, which is why you are seen as a troll. You cannot find one good thing to say about any other approach other than your own. The reason I can, at times, be patient with you is because my mom was that way, too. She saw in black and white--as do you. I see in shades of grey.

You dont like my perspective then thats your problem. Look in the mirror before you accuse others

 

[Meriweather]

You dont like my perspective then thats your problem.

Read again. When you are speaking of your perspective, you hold my interest. When you are bashing what you clearly have little knowledge of (Christianity, for example) at first it's giggles, then eye rolls when you cling to ignorance when knowledge is presented to you. Your perspective is fine. Your bashing/trolling is not.

 

[Hafar1014]

Read again. When you are speaking of your perspective, you hold my interest. When you are bashing what you clearly have little knowledge of (Christianity, for example) at first it's giggles, then eye rolls when you cling to ignorance when knowledge is presented to you. Your perspective is fine. Your bashing/trolling is not.

Christianity is based on a distortion of Genesis a Jewish work I do understand. There is no original sin fall of man hell or devil. These concepts were created to force obedience with the threat of suffering in Hell. This is all in absolute contradiction to the meaning of Genesis.