Florida Legislature approves carrying concealed loaded guns without permits

[Flash]

I honestly don't know if having everyone carry a gun is a good idea or not but I appreciate Florida experimenting on it's citizens so we can all learn. Me, I'm content to be in the control group.

You are confused Moon Bat.

If you look at the law it definitely says that not "everybody" can carry without a permit. It gives several exclusions from the law, like convicted felons or people already prohibited from possessing firearms.

There are 25 other states that have Constitutional carry so it is hardly an "experiment". In fact one of the states that has some of the lowest gun crime in the country has been doing it since it became a state.

If you are afraid then don't come here.

 

[Flash]

I'm not familiar with the law and don't care enough to learn it.

Of course. You wouldn't want your confusion to be corrected, would you?

 

[alang1216]

Of course. You wouldn't want your confusion to be corrected, would you?

This was interesting:

 

[miketx]

With an asterisk.

That is, if it's a Trump or DeSantis rally, or an event for some other notable Republican, no guns will be allowed.

Any politicians rally bans guns you lying bastard.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This was interesting:

Yeah - 5 of the 7 lowest states do not require a permit to carry a concealed handgun; the other two are shall-issue.

 

[2aguy]

This was interesting:

Oh good….mixing suicide with murder again…,,

You shit heads always do that and think it makes your argument….,,

 

[2aguy]

This was interesting:

And now...the actual truth.....

Consider, for example, Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono’s (HI) implication that Hawaii’s residents are far safer than residents of states with less restrictive gun laws, simply because the state has a lower rate of gun violence.30



In 2019, Hawaii’s overall age-adjusted suicide rate was 15.64 deaths per 100,000 residents, significantly higher than the national average of 13.93, and even further behind Texas’ rate of 13.38.31



In fact, Hawaii’s age-adjusted suicide rate was higher than the national average in seven of the 10 years between 2011 and 2020, and higher than Texas’ rate in six of those 10 years.32


In one of the four years during that time frame in which Hawaii had a lower age-adjusted suicide rate than Texas, both states were significantly below the national average, and their rates were within 0.1 deaths per 100,000 individuals.
In 2019, Hawaii’s age-adjusted homicide rate was 2.5 deaths per 100,000 residents, higher than Idaho, Maine, and Vermont, which received F, F, and C– ratings, respectively, that year from the Giffords State Gun Law Scorecard.33





It was also roughly on par with homicide rates in Iowa, Minnesota, New Hampshire, and Utah, which received a C, C+, F, and D, respectively.34





Hawaii’s low rate of gun violence does not, in fact, make its residents less likely on the whole to die of suicide or homicide than millions of residents in states with less restrictive gun control laws. This is not unique to Hawaii or to any specific year. States like Oregon and Washington—which are highly rated by gun control groups—routinely have age-adjusted suicide rates far above the national average, and far above states like Texas and Florida, which are rated poorly by gun control groups.35


Meanwhile, Illinois and Maryland in recent years suffered from far higher homicide rates than states like Arizona, Texas, and Georgia.36




Answering Policymakers’ Most Common Questions (And Debunking Their Most Common Misconceptions) About Gun Policy
=======


https://www.powerlineblog.com/archi...arms-laws-do-nothing-to-prevent-homicides.php

But what jumps out at you when you read Fleegler’s article is that the decrease in fatalities that he documents relates almost exclusively to suicides. What his study really shows is that strict gun laws have little or no impact on gun homicides:

Compared with the quartile of states with the fewest laws, the quartile with the most laws had a lower firearm suicide rate (absolute rate difference, 6.25 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.48-0.83) and a lower firearm homicide rate (absolute rate difference, 0.40 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.60; 95% CI, 0.38-0.95).


http://reason.com/archives/2016/01/05/you-know-less-than-you-think-a/1

Do Gun Laws Stop Gun Crimes?
The same week Kristof's column came out, National Journal attracted major media attention with a showy piece of research and analysis headlined "The States With The Most Gun Laws See The Fewest Gun-Related Deaths." The subhead lamented: "But there's still little appetite to talk about more restrictions."
Critics quickly noted that the Journal's Libby Isenstein had included suicides among "gun-related deaths" and suicide-irrelevant policies such as stand-your-ground laws among its tally of "gun laws." That meant that high-suicide, low-homicide states such as Wyoming, Alaska, and Idaho were taken to task for their liberal carry-permit policies. Worse, several of the states with what the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence considers terribly lax gun laws were dropped from Isenstein's data set because their murder rates were too low!
Another of National Journal's mistakes is a common one in gun science: The paper didn't look at gun statistics in the context of overall violent crime, a much more relevant measure to the policy debate. After all, if less gun crime doesn't mean less crime overall—if criminals simply substitute other weapons or means when guns are less available—the benefit of the relevant gun laws is thrown into doubt. When Thomas Firey of the Cato Institute ran regressions of Isenstein's study with slightly different specifications and considering all violent crime, each of her effects either disappeared or reversed.
Another recent well-publicized study trying to assert a positive connection between gun laws and public safety was a 2013 JAMA Internal Medicine article by the Harvard pediatrics professor Eric W. Fleegler and his colleagues, called "Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Fatalities in the United States." It offered a mostly static comparison of the toughness of state gun laws (as rated by the gun control lobbyists at the Brady Center) with gun deaths from 2007 to 2010.
"States with strictest firearm laws have lowest rates of gun deaths," a Boston Globeheadline then announced. But once again, if you take the simple, obvious step of separating out suicides from murders, the correlations that buttress the supposed causations disappear. As John Hinderaker headlined his reaction at the Power Line blog, "New Study Finds Firearm Laws Do Nothing to Prevent Homicides."
Among other anomalies in Fleegler's research, Hinderaker pointed out that it didn't include Washington, D.C., with its strict gun laws and frequent homicides. If just one weak-gun-law state, Louisiana, were taken out of the equation, "the remaining nine lowest-regulation states have an average gun homicide rate of 2.8 per 100,000, which is 12.5% less than the average of the ten states with the strictest gun control laws," he found.

Public health researcher Garen Wintemute, who advocates stronger gun laws, assessed the spate of gun-law studies during an October interview with Slate and found it wanting: "There have been studies that have essentially toted up the number of laws various states have on the books and examined the association between the number of laws and rates of firearm death," said Wintemute, who is a medical doctor and researcher at the University of California, Davis. "That's really bad science, and it shouldn't inform policymaking."
Wintemute thinks the factor such studies don't adequately consider is the number of people in a state who have guns to begin with, which is generally not known or even well-estimated on levels smaller than national, though researchers have used proxies from subscribers to certain gun-related magazines and percentages of suicides committed with guns to make educated guesses. "Perhaps these laws decrease mortality by decreasing firearm ownership, in which case firearm ownership mediates the association," Wintemute wrote in a 2013 JAMA Internal Medicine paper. "But perhaps, and more plausibly, these laws are more readily enacted in states where the prevalence of firearm ownership is low—there will be less opposition to them—and firearm ownership confounds the association."










Would Cracking Down on Guns in the U.S. Really Reduce Violence? , by Robert VerBruggen, National Review

There is actually no simple correlation between states’ homicide rates and their gun-ownership rates or gun laws.
This has been shown numerous times, by different people, using different data sets.

A year ago, I took state gun-ownership levels reported by the Washington Post (based on a Centers for Disease Control survey) and compared them with murder rates from the FBI: no correlation.

The legal scholar Eugene Volokh has compared states’ gun laws (as rated by the anti-gun Brady Campaign) with their murder rates: no correlation.

David Freddoso of the Washington Examiner, a former National Review reporter, failed to find a correlation even between gun ownership in a state and gun murders specifically, an approach that sets aside the issue of whether gun availability has an effect on non-gun crime. (Guns can deter unarmed criminals, for instance, and criminals without guns may simply switch to other weapons.)


, I recently redid my analysis with a few tweaks. Instead of relying on a single year of survey data, I averaged three years. (The CDC survey, the best available for state-level numbers, included data on gun ownership only in 2001, 2002, and 2004. Those were the years I looked at.)

And instead of comparing CDC data with murder rates from a different agency, I relied on the CDC’s own estimates of death by assault in those years. Again: no correlation.

------

Left-leaning media outlets, from Mother Jones to National Journal, get around this absence of correlation by reporting numbers on “gun deaths” rather than gun homicides or homicides in general.

More than 60 percent of gun deaths nationally are suicides, and places with higher gun ownership typically see a higher percentage of their suicides committed with a gun.

Focusing on the number of gun deaths practically guarantees a finding that guns and violence go together. While it may be true that public policy should also seek to reduce suicide, it is homicide — often a dramatic mass killing — that usually prompts the media and politicians to call for gun control, and it is homicide that most influences people as they consider supporting measures to take away their fellow citizens’ access to guns.

There are large gaps among the states when it comes to homicide, with rates ranging all the way from about two to twelve per 100,000 in 2013, the most recent year of data available from the CDC. These disparities show that it’s not just guns that cause the United States to have, on average, a higher rate of homicide than other developed countries do. Not only is there no correlation between gun ownership and overall homicide within a state, but there is a strong correlation between gun homicide and non-gun homicide — suggesting that they spring from similar causes, and that some states are simply more violent than others. A closer look at demographic and geographic patterns provides some clues as to why this is.


Read more at: Would Cracking Down on Guns in the U.S. Really Reduce Violence? | National Review

 

[2aguy]

This was interesting:

Then....after dealing with the lie of mixing suicides with murder to jack up the numbers.......you have to explain how it is that the democrat party controlled areas of states, like say, Louisiana.......drive the gun murder rates in those states....

It isn't the guns, you dope.....it is the policies of the democrat party in those states....

In February 2022, CBS News published a report about cities with the highest homicide rate, "Murder map: Deadliest U.S. cities." Of the top 10 deadliest cities in the country, all of them are cities with Democratic mayors. Moreover, of the 65 cities on this list with the highest murder rates, the overwhelming majority had Democratic mayors. And, to quote Clinton, "that's just a fact."
----
On Nov. 4, the Heritage Foundation released a study showing that "high-crime counties are governed largely by Democrats." It revealed that of the 30 cities with the highest murder rates in the country, 27 have Democratic mayors. Furthermore, of those 27 cities, nearly half (14) have radical left-wing prosecutors funded or inspired by affluent billionaire and leftist political activist George Soros and the Open Society Foundation.
"The high murder rate is almost exclusively cabined in cities run by Democrats and with Democrat district attorneys, many of whom are Soros bought-and-paid-for rogue prosecutors or inspired by Soros, groups like the egregiously misnamed Fair and Just Prosecution and other battering rams of the movement," the authors of the study stated.

Don't believe Democrats' lies — blue cities, not red states, have the violent crime problem
=======


From poster, Toobfreak.

I chose 58 cities as that was the largest number I could fit on a page. I then went through each city one by one to look up the major of every city. Aside from the fact that you can forget finding any pattern of cities in "red" states being the most with the highest crime as the idiot Marc tries to claim, but I went down the list marking all the mayors of the highest crimes cities in America in BRIGHT RED who were DEMOCRATS.


Look at what I found:

Every city above in red is RUN BY A DEMOCRAT!

Murder map: Deadliest U.S. cities


Also.....

The No. 1 state on Third Way’s list is Mississippi. Sure enough, the statewide vote in the 2020 election was for Trump. But within the state, Hinds County residents voted for Joe Biden, 3 to 1. Mississippi’s biggest city, Jackson, is in Hinds County. You know where this is going.
Reporting on Jackson last year, CNN declared it “one of the deadliest U.S. cities.”

The mayor of Jackson is Chokwe Antar Lumumba, a Democrat. The district attorney is Jody Owens, a Democrat.
No. 2 on the list is Louisiana. Trump won that state, too. But on the more local level, he lost Orleans, the parish that contains New Orleans, the state’s most populous city. Residents there went for Biden almost 8 to 1.
“New Orleans had the highest homicide rate of any major city so far this year, with about 41 homicides per 100,000 residents.”— The Wall Street Journal, Sep. 16, 2022
The mayor of New Orleans is LaToya Cantrell, a Democrat. The district attorney is Jason Williams, also a Democrat.
No. 3 on the list is Kentucky, another red state that voted to elect Trump. But Kentucky’s biggest city Louisville is in Jefferson County and 60 percent of those voters supported Biden.
This is from Kentucky-based think tank Pegasus Institute in August: “In the last decade, the city of Louisville has seen unprecedented increases in shootings and homicides. 2020 became Louisville’s deadliest year on record, and 2021 have proven to continue that trend.” The organization reported last year that Louisville’s homicide rate was competing with the likes of Chicago and Philadelphia.
The mayor of Louisville is Greg Fischer, a Democrat. The district attorney is Thomas B. Wine. He is also a Democrat.
Next is Alabama at No. 4, another 2020 red state. But Biden won the most votes in the most populous county, also called Jefferson. He won 56 percent to Trump’s 43. Within Jefferson is the city of Birmingham, which has the third-highest murder ratein all of the U.S.
The mayor of Birmingham is Randall Woodfin. He’s a Democrat, just like the district attorney, Danny Carr.
In slot No. 5 is Missouri. Again, a Trump state. And again, with the county containing its biggest city, St. Louis, going for Biden, 61 percent to Trump’s 37. St. Louis has the fourth-highest murder rate in the country.
Mayor: Tishaura Jones, Democrat.
County prosecuting attorney: Wesley Bell, same.
No. 6 is South Carolina. Trump won that state, but Charleston County, with the city of North Charleston, went for Biden with 56 percent of the vote. North Charleston has the highest murder rate in the state.
Finally, here we have a city with a mayor, Keith Summey, from the Republican Party. The county solicitor — Charleston does not have a district attorney — is Scarlett Wilson, also a Republican.
Not that we’re keeping score, but that brings the number on this list of Republicans who might feasibly be held accountable for raging crime in their cities to a grand total of two. For Democrats, it’s so far 10.
The next two states on Third Way’s report, New Mexico and Georgia, went blue in 2020, so we’ll skip those.
No. 9 is Arkansas, which was red. But again, Pulaski County, with the state’s biggest city of Little Rock, went blue with 60 percent of voters choosing Biden. That city reportedly has one of the highest violent crime rates in the state. The mayor of Little Rock is Frank Scott, a Democrat. The county prosecutor, Larry Jegley, is a Democrat as well.
Lastly, at No. 10, is Tennessee. Another red state with a major blue county that went for Biden. That county here would be Shelby, with 64 percent of the vote going to the president. In Shelby is the city of Memphis, which, according to The New York Times, “is often ranked among the nation’s most violent cities.”
The mayor of Memphis is Jim Strickland, a Democrat. Steve Mulroy, a Democrat, is the recently-elected district attorney.
To recap, of the eight red states listed in Third Way’s report as being among the top 10 with the highest murder rate, the cities where all that murder is happening are run almost exclusively by Democrats. All but one had a Democrat mayor. And all but one had a Democrat responsible for pursuing criminal prosecutions.

The Left's Funny New Lie: It's The 'Red States' With More Crime!

 

[2aguy]

This was interesting:

Policies like this increase gun murder.........gun murder is not increased when normal people own guns.....people who own guns yet do not use them for gang business, or other criminal activity....

Depopulating the jails........ attacking the police....

That is what is driving our current gun murder rate...

Some sort of brain-rotting substance must be at work, though, for what else can explain the Los Angeles Board of Supervisors’ decision to “depopulate and decarcerate the Los Angeles County Jails?” Gang violence is up; murders of homeless people have skyrocketed; and Los Angeles has a violent crime rate higher than 90% of U.S. cities.
--------
The proposal outlines that it would “Declare the State of mental health services and overcrowding in the Los Angeles County jails a humanitarian crisis,requiring the County to move with all deliberate speed on meaningful solutions; and prioritize decreasing the number of individuals entering the Los Angeles County Jails.”

If passed, the local sheriff would be instructed to review its bail thresholds and to cite and release “individuals with aggregate bail amounts set at $50,000 or below.” The Los Angeles Superior Court would be directed to “implement the Emergency Bail Schedule that was in place at the height of the COVID pandemic” in an effort to “prioritize increased opportunities for pre-trial release.”

L.A. Supervisors propose "depopulating" prisons with catch and release

hotair.com

 

[alang1216]

Oh good….mixing suicide with murder again…,,

You shit heads always do that and think it makes your argument….,,

I think you are doing the mixing. The chart clearly says "Homicides".

 

[2aguy]

I think you are doing the mixing. The chart clearly says "Homicides".

Yeah.....they include suicides......

 

[M14 Shooter]

I think you are doing the mixing. The chart clearly says "Homicides".

According to your source:
5 of the 7 states with the lowest murder rates are no-permit carry and 2 are shall-issue carry?
What point do you think that makes?

 

[alang1216]

According to your source:
5 of the 7 states with the lowest murder rates are no-permit carry and 2 are shall-issue carry?
What point do you think that makes?

According to this source:
Of the 4 states with the highest murder rates 2 no-permit carry and 2 are permit carry?

The point seems to be the ability to carry does not lower the homicide rate.

 

[The Duke]

Sorry but no.

The Republicans sold us out on this one. There is no real Constitution carry. There is no open carry, only no permit needed for concealed carry.

The Tourist lobby owns the Democrats and RINOs here in Florida. It is disgusting.

I am disappointed in DeSantis for two things:

1. For signing the goddamn Internet Tax when he ran on platform of of no new taxes.

2. Not insisting that the Legislature have real Constitutional Carry that would include open carry.

DeSantis is better than just about anybody else and I will vote for him but he is like all politicians and is willing to compromise our Liberty.

Never trust any politician.

Bah! already passed and goes into effect July 1st!

 

[LibertyKid]

According to this source:
Of the 4 states with the highest murder rates 2 no-permit carry and 2 are permit carry?

The point seems to be the ability to carry does not lower the homicide rate.

And the vast majority of legally owned carriers are NOT the one committing the crimes. Jesus Christ, how many times do we have to keep pointing out the data. You want to stop gun crimes, be harder on criminals that commit crimes with guns. Stop releasing repeat offenders. The ATF should go after thugs and gang related crimes. And focus on education, training, and responsible citizenry in the inner cities to stop systemic welfare, drugs, and illegal activity.

 

[The Duke]

And the vast majority of legally owned carriers are NOT the one committing the crimes. Jesus Christ, how many times do we have to keep pointing out the data. You want to stop gun crimes, be harder on criminals that commit crimes with guns. Stop releasing repeat offenders. The ATF should go after thugs and gang related crimes. And focus on education, training, and responsible citizenry in the inner cities to stop systemic welfare, drugs, and illegal activity.

^That's not in the ATF's purview, brah.

The ATF's purpose is to crack down on all the really fun things.

Drinking, smoking, and guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

According to this source:
Of the 4 states with the highest murder rates 2 no-permit carry and 2 are permit carry?
The point seems to be the ability to carry does not lower the homicide rate.

Nor does it raise it.

 

[alang1216]

And the vast majority of legally owned carriers are NOT the one committing the crimes. Jesus Christ, how many times do we have to keep pointing out the data. You want to stop gun crimes, be harder on criminals that commit crimes with guns. Stop releasing repeat offenders. The ATF should go after thugs and gang related crimes. And focus on education, training, and responsible citizenry in the inner cities to stop systemic welfare, drugs, and illegal activity.

If I have to choose between ideology and hard data, I'll go with the data every time.

 

[alang1216]

Nor does it raise it.

That may be true but it means lowering homicide rates is not a reason to weaken gun control measures.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That may be true but it means lowering homicide rates is not a reason to weaken gun control measures.

And it means "weakening" gun control laws does not raise homicide rates.