Fears of a Chinese attack on Taiwan are growing, and Taiwan isn't sure who would help if it happened

[Circe]

Wow, trying to even see what you are trying to say in this mess, and it is hard to find an actual thread.

Please let me know when you can actually put that into a form that is understandable.

Not good at modern history, are you? I expect you are young and haven't had a good history education and don't remember the Cuban Missile Crisis when we almost went to nuclear war. Oh, how they forget.

Teddy Roosevelt, charging up San Juan Hill in the Spanish American War in Cuba ----- oh, never mind, I can't correct the deficits of your education myself.

 

[Mushroom]

Not good at modern history, are you? I expect you are young and haven't had a good history education and don't remember the Cuban Missile Crisis when we almost went to nuclear war. Oh, how they forget.

Teddy Roosevelt, charging up San Juan Hill in the Spanish American War in Cuba ----- oh, never mind, I can't correct the deficits of your education myself.

*laughs*

As an FYI, I am on the downward side of 50, and far closer to 60 than even 55.

And I am very aware of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Notice how I corrected Fort Fun and used the phrase "Exclusionary Zone"? Where in the hell do you think I got that, pulled it out of my arse? It happens to be the exact same phrase and condition that President Kennedy used.

Not have a good history education indeed.

And apparently you do not even know what the Spanish-American war was about, it you think it is all about Teddy running up San Juan Hill.

No, I think the issue is that I actually do know what I am saying, and do not pull multiple random and disconnected things out of a hat and then try to mash them all together. Into something that makes sense to you and nobody else.

But please feel free to try again. But leave off the attempts at insult and try to create an argument that actually makes sense.

 

[Circe]

*laughs*

As an FYI, I am on the downward side of 50, and far closer to 60 than even 55.

And I am very aware of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Notice how I corrected Fort Fun and used the phrase "Exclusionary Zone"? Where in the hell do you think I got that, pulled it out of my arse? It happens to be the exact same phrase and condition that President Kennedy used.

Not have a good history education indeed.

And apparently you do not even know what the Spanish-American war was about, it you think it is all about Teddy running up San Juan Hill.

No, I think the issue is that I actually do know what I am saying, and do not pull multiple random and disconnected things out of a hat and then try to mash them all together. Into something that makes sense to you and nobody else.

But please feel free to try again. But leave off the attempts at insult and try to create an argument that actually makes sense.

Oh, I see!! You're just one of those obnoxious types not worth talking with. Okay, I'll put you on ignore.

What a nasty person this is! Why are you all talking with him?

 

[Mushroom]

Oh, I see!! You're just one of those obnoxious types not worth talking with. Okay, I'll put you on ignore.

What a nasty person this is! Why are you all talking with him?

Call me a child, then scream I am nasty?

Have a nice day.

 

[Silver Cat]

No, not a blockade.

A blockade is something completely different, and can be an act of war.

The actual term is "exclusion zone". Or "demilitarized zone". They are not the same thing, not at all. One stops all transit, the other only restricts the kinds of transit.

There was no "blockade" of Cuba in 1962, there was no "blockade" of Iraq after the 1990-1991 Gulf War. Egypt has not been "blockading" Palestine for the past 20 or so years.

Setting a sea zone and stating that certain actions will not happen in them. It is then up to the other party to decide how far they want to push things.

And once again, do not expect the US to be alone. I can see the UK, France, Australia, Japan, Philippines, even South Korea, India, and Vietnam also taking part. Because all of them are feeling the pressure of China Militarism", and would be acting together.to try and curb it. Myself, I don't think China is so stupid to think they could go past that without repercussions.

So, China will call it "piracy", and then sink "pirates" with their new missiles and torpedoes. What is your next step?

 

[Mushroom]

So, China will call it "piracy", and then sink "pirates" with their new missiles and torpedoes. What is your next step?

Watch most of the Chinese Navy turned into a nice artificial reef.

Then their economy crumble as all trading agreements with the country end.

Oh, they will likely keep some of them. But I am not sure how much of their economy would still survive when maybe North Korea is their last trading partner.

 

[HenryBHough]

Ooops, you whined a lot, but forgot to answer the question.

What actions?

And apparently you are too scared to answer what Biden should do AFTER a Chinese invasion of taiwan. As I am a kind and understanding guy and know not all adult humans are capable of coherent arguments, I will allow you this sissy tap out, to preserve your energy.

So... what actions?

And... go

Rule about not respondng to assholes is back effect.
But please DO seek help with that reading comprehension deficiency. Untreated it will keep you on welfare all your life.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Well, refusing to acknowledge Taiwan as a sovereign nation is quite a change. A Chinese incursion in Taiwan would then not be a invasion. It would be a sovereign state rightfully snuffing out an illegal insurrection.

Yeah yeah...just like Austria and poland and then france and others were really part of Germany in the 1930's...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yeah yeah...just like Austria and poland and then france and others were really part of Germany in the 1930's...

Yes, a bit like that. It would be a significant swing from our stace Today. But not out of the realm of possibility, since we did exactly that 50 years ago.

 

[Silver Cat]

Watch most of the Chinese Navy turned into a nice artificial reef.

Then their economy crumble as all trading agreements with the country end.

Oh, they will likely keep some of them. But I am not sure how much of their economy would still survive when maybe North Korea is their last trading partner.

Ok. Then they evacuate their cities, prepare economy to wartime mass production , and then - nuke the US bases on Okinawa and Guam and start underwater war against the US military and cargo fleet.
Your move? Escalate or de-escalate?

 

[Mushroom]

Ok. Then they evacuate their cities, prepare economy to wartime mass production , and then - nuke the US bases on Okinawa and Guam and start underwater war against the US military and cargo fleet.

Which if not before brings in Japan. And an "underwater war"? What, do you think it is still 1942? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

With their 6 submarine tenders? Against the US military? Oh right, I forget you live in "completely oblivious to reality land".

News flash, the US has around 25 P3 Orion aircraft for each Chinese submarine. Not even to mention the ASW helicopters and ships of the Navy.

And come on, give me a break. "US cargo fleet"? Do you even have a frigging clue of the size of the "US cargo fleet"?

393 ships.

Yep, that's right. Less than 400 ships. The vast majority of the cargo that goes to and from the US is hauled by ships of other nations. What, China is going to go after them also? Oh yes, like that is surely going to make them a lot of friends Internationally.

You know, you should just stop posting. Because each time you do you just say more and more stupid things. And it is obvious you know absolutely nothing, and I am getting tired of pointing out the gross stupidity of your posts so often.

Oh, and is China going to go after the ships of Australia, UK, India, France, and all the others as well? Because as you keep missing, it is not going to be the US alone involved in this. What would end up happing would be largely unique, a "World War" where it is literally a single nation against the World. And guess how that would turn out?

You really are delusional, you know that? With no grasp of reality, no grasp of international politics, no grasp of the military capabilities of the US, and with some kind of Aryan Nation Conceit that makes you think the entire world would simply cower in fear of the "Might of the People's Republic of China". When in fact, most of the world actually laughs at China. Their antiquated tanks, their small and mostly port bound Navy (Sorry, the People's Liberation Army Navy), and their almost complete lack of airlift capability. Hell, even a half-assed small freight carrier in the US has more airlift capability than all of the Chinese air forces combined. Just the California Air National Guard has about 5 times the airlift capability of the entire People's Liberation Army combined with the PLAN and PLAF.

And you really think China is going to nuke Taiwan, the US, and not Japan? You really are delusional. I am so glad that China is much smarter than you appear to be.

And even more stupid, "evacuate their cities"? Holy hell, Beijing alone has almost 22 million people! That is over 5 times the population of even Los Angeles. What are they going to do, march them out of the city to die of exposure, thirst, and starvation in the middle of nowhere?

 

[Silver Cat]

Which if not before brings in Japan. And an "underwater war"? What, do you think it is still 1942? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

With their 6 submarine tenders? Against the US military? Oh right, I forget you live in "completely oblivious to reality land".

News flash, the US has around 25 P3 Orion aircraft for each Chinese submarine. Not even to mention the ASW helicopters and ships of the Navy.

And come on, give me a break. "US cargo fleet"? Do you even have a frigging clue of the size of the "US cargo fleet"?

393 ships.

Yep, that's right. Less than 400 ships. The vast majority of the cargo that goes to and from the US is hauled by ships of other nations. What, China is going to go after them also? Oh yes, like that is surely going to make them a lot of friends Internationally.

You see, two questions often answer each other. China won't attack everything (at least in the very beginning of the war). Little number of the US cargo ships means little number of submarines and auxiliary cruisers needed.

You know, you should just stop posting. Because each time you do you just say more and more stupid things. And it is obvious you know absolutely nothing, and I am getting tired of pointing out the gross stupidity of your posts so often.

Do you want to read some professional opinion? Ok. No problem.

Oh, and is China going to go after the ships of Australia, UK, India, France, and all the others as well? Because as you keep missing, it is not going to be the US alone involved in this. What would end up happing would be largely unique, a "World War" where it is literally a single nation against the World. And guess how that would turn out?

You see, it is also 'a group of defenseless non-nuclear states against two nuclear superpowers'. Something like a tribal raid party with spears against a machine-gun position. Non-nuclear states in a nuclear war isn't even cannon fodder.

You really are delusional, you know that? With no grasp of reality, no grasp of international politics, no grasp of the military capabilities of the US, and with some kind of Aryan Nation Conceit that makes you think the entire world would simply cower in fear of the "Might of the People's Republic of China". When in fact, most of the world actually laughs at China. Their antiquated tanks, their small and mostly port bound Navy (Sorry, the People's Liberation Army Navy), and their almost complete lack of airlift capability. Hell, even a half-assed small freight carrier in the US has more airlift capability than all of the Chinese air forces combined. Just the California Air National Guard has about 5 times the airlift capability of the entire People's Liberation Army combined with the PLAN and PLAF.

And you really think China is going to nuke Taiwan, the US, and not Japan? You really are delusional. I am so glad that China is much smarter than you appear to be.

Okinawa is a part of Japan, isn't it? Actually the answer on your question depends on Japan behavior. Japan has two main options:
1) Declare neutrality (intern all US military personnel and don't allow US forces to use Japan territory (and aquatory).
2) Be nuked by the Chinese medium-range missiles.

And even more stupid, "evacuate their cities"? Holy hell, Beijing alone has almost 22 million people! That is over 5 times the population of even Los Angeles. What are they going to do, march them out of the city to die of exposure, thirst, and starvation in the middle of nowhere?

Thats why they created the special ministry for it Ministry of Emergency Management - Wikipedia

Chinese Civil Defense Construction

www.globalsecurity.org

So, China have their cities evacuated and few American bases nuked. What will be your next move - escalation or de-escalation?

 

[Mushroom]

Little number of the US cargo ships means little number of submarines and auxiliary cruisers needed.

You really do know little to nothing. So you would actually have the Chinese subs chasing all over the world to catch a few merchant ships. And here is the thing, I know where half of those are, but you obviously do not have a clue. Just as you had no idea how many there were to begin with. So I will just remain quiet.

You think Japan would stay out of it? Lord, you have absolutely no understanding of them, do you? If anything, an ultimatum like that would likely see them finally throw off the last vestiges of their post-war Constitution that restrained them militarily and start to seriously arm themselves for the first time in close to a century. One thing about Japan, they have long memories. And hiding behind their polite and calm exterior is the same material that took over most of China in the last century.

And also, the status of Japan and Taiwan is almost the same as it is with the US. They have "embassies" and "ambassadors" that use other terms, and recognize the passports of each other. And have stated many times that they support Taiwan, and condemn any hostile actions taken against it. But you really think they would "throw out the US"? No, not hardly. Probably the only ally of the US that is close to the UK is Japan.

And look at the past 10 years. When the nation was devastated in the 2011 tsunami and earthquake, what did China do? Sent 15 people and just under $5 million in supplies (most of which never reached Japan). Taiwan sent them over $250 million in aid and supplies, and over 60 trained search and rescue personnel (and another $250 million + in private aid). The US? Sent an entire carrier group into the radioactive plume to help quench the out of control fires at the reactor, And around 10,000 military and relief personnel, mobilized two field hospitals, and over $1 billion in aid.

And you really think they are going to remember that, and throw out the US and ignore Taiwan, after what little China offered? Hell, the Philippines sent more aid to Japan than China did. Even North Korea sent more aid than China did. Kuwait sent more aid than China did. Even Croatia and Vietnam sent more aid than China did.

And you honestly think that Japan is going to forget that, and just tell the rest of the nations in the area they have been working hard at repairing their wartime reputation to go pound sand? You just don't get it, most in the region see China as nothing but a bully, while Japan has actually rebuilt most of their goodwill. And when even North Korea sends more aid than China, that is really something to be embarrassed about.

You really do seem to think that the entire world would just bow down and tremble if China says anything.

And again, evacuate their cities. You really are either insane, oblivious, or a fool if you think they could evacuate even one of their moderate sized cities. Tell me, where in China are you going to house and take care of (let alone move) even half of the 22 million in Beijing alone? During WWII England actually had to send a lot of women and children to their overseas states like Canada because even evacuating London stretched them to their max. And that is a small fraction of what China would have to deal with.

But please, what hole are you going to dig yourself into next that I can throw dirt into?

 

[Silver Cat]

You really do know little to nothing. So you would actually have the Chinese subs chasing all over the world to catch a few merchant ships. And here is the thing, I know where half of those are, but you obviously do not have a clue. Just as you had no idea how many there were to begin with. So I will just remain quiet.

You think Japan would stay out of it? Lord, you have absolutely no understanding of them, do you? If anything, an ultimatum like that would likely see them finally throw off the last vestiges of their post-war Constitution that restrained them militarily and start to seriously arm themselves for the first time in close to a century. One thing about Japan, they have long memories. And hiding behind their polite and calm exterior is the same material that took over most of China in the last century.

And also, the status of Japan and Taiwan is almost the same as it is with the US. They have "embassies" and "ambassadors" that use other terms, and recognize the passports of each other. And have stated many times that they support Taiwan, and condemn any hostile actions taken against it. But you really think they would "throw out the US"? No, not hardly. Probably the only ally of the US that is close to the UK is Japan.

And look at the past 10 years. When the nation was devastated in the 2011 tsunami and earthquake, what did China do? Sent 15 people and just under $5 million in supplies (most of which never reached Japan). Taiwan sent them over $250 million in aid and supplies, and over 60 trained search and rescue personnel (and another $250 million + in private aid). The US? Sent an entire carrier group into the radioactive plume to help quench the out of control fires at the reactor, And around 10,000 military and relief personnel, mobilized two field hospitals, and over $1 billion in aid.

And you really think they are going to remember that, and throw out the US and ignore Taiwan, after what little China offered? Hell, the Philippines sent more aid to Japan than China did. Even North Korea sent more aid than China did. Kuwait sent more aid than China did. Even Croatia and Vietnam sent more aid than China did.

And you honestly think that Japan is going to forget that, and just tell the rest of the nations in the area they have been working hard at repairing their wartime reputation to go pound sand? You just don't get it, most in the region see China as nothing but a bully, while Japan has actually rebuilt most of their goodwill. And when even North Korea sends more aid than China, that is really something to be embarrassed about.

You really do seem to think that the entire world would just bow down and tremble if China says anything.

And again, evacuate their cities. You really are either insane, oblivious, or a fool if you think they could evacuate even one of their moderate sized cities. Tell me, where in China are you going to house and take care of (let alone move) even half of the 22 million in Beijing alone? During WWII England actually had to send a lot of women and children to their overseas states like Canada because even evacuating London stretched them to their max. And that is a small fraction of what China would have to deal with.

But please, what hole are you going to dig yourself into next that I can throw dirt into?

First: it is not WWII anymore to loiter in the sea without precisely chosen objectives. And even in WWII intelligence was pretty important.

Second: there is no any practical difference what exactly Japan will choose - to stay out of war, or to be burn down by the Chinese medium range missiles. Non nuclear state against a nuclear state in the starting nuclear conflict can do only one thing - to die with honor.


Third: China is a quite big country. There is enough of place to evacuate children and other non-essential population.

 

[Unkotare]

Holy crap, what a dope ^^^^^^^

 

[Mac-7]

Japan has two main options:
1) Declare neutrality (intern all US military personnel and don't allow US forces to use Japan territory (and aquatory).
2) Be nuked by the Chinese medium-range missiles.

You left out option 3:

japan will actively oppose chinese aggression against Taiwan

which I think they will do

 

[Mushroom]

Holy crap, what a dope ^^^^^^^

Hell, quite often his arguments are music videos and even it seems comic book covers.

And that they can evacuate 22 million people from one of the most populated cities on the planet... somehow. No idea how, or to where, or how to feed and shelter them, but they will be evacuated. At the same time they are evacuating all the other cities no less.

And the reason much of the country is lightly inhabited? Because a lot of it is pretty much uninhabitable. Barren desert, rough mountains, dense forests, is not like they are going to put people there.

Well, unless they decide to try the Pol-Pot method of population reduction that is.

And once again, going around claiming that China will nuke everybody that does not give them Taiwan. He really is demented, and not very stable mentally. And he does not even seem to realize that if China did that, it would lose. And likely be destroyed by a multinational coalition that would see them as a threat to the entire world.

Thankfully, I think China is a lot smarter than SC is.

 

[Unkotare]

Hell, quite often his arguments are music videos and even it seems comic book covers.

And that they can evacuate 22 million people from one of the most populated cities on the planet... somehow. No idea how, or to where, or how to feed and shelter them, but they will be evacuated. At the same time they are evacuating all the other cities no less.

And the reason much of the country is lightly inhabited? Because a lot of it is pretty much uninhabitable. Barren desert, rough mountains, dense forests, is not like they are going to put people there.

Well, unless they decide to try the Pol-Pot method of population reduction that is.

And once again, going around claiming that China will nuke everybody that does not give them Taiwan. He really is demented, and not very stable mentally. And he does not even seem to realize that if China did that, it would lose. And likely be destroyed by a multinational coalition that would see them as a threat to the entire world.

Thankfully, I think China is a lot smarter than SC is.

A doorknob is a lot smarter than SC is.

 

[Mac-7]

And once again, going around claiming that China will nuke everybody that does not give them Taiwan. He really is demented, and not very stable mentally. And he does not even seem to realize that if China did that, it would lose. And likely be destroyed by a multinational coalition that would see them as a threat to the entire world.

He could be heavily influenced by the chinese .50 cent army posters

or he could be a chinese plant himself

 

[Silver Cat]

You left out option 3:

japan will actively oppose chinese aggression against Taiwan

which I think they will do

Then China will nuke them. It's simple.