"In War Over Taiwan, We Lose Every Time"

[JoeB131]

We didn't subdue them because both were proxy conflicts and the US didn't want to expand into either Iran or Pakistan which were the supporters of those we were fighting against in those two nations.

Whenever you lose a war, you'll hear from the people who say they'd have won if they had been doing the fighting.

Thank you Chamberlain for your wisdom.
You really think appeasement will work better than it did 87 years ago ?

I think you misunderstood what happened at Munich. Chamberlain didn't WANT to stop Hitler. He wanted Hitler to take out Stalin for him. The West was more afraid of Stalin than Hitler. Even when Hitler invaded Poland, he did nothing, really. (See Phony War). Only when Hitler overran the West did the West take this shit seriously.

 

[Mac-7]

World War I started as a dispute between Austria and Serbia over Bosnia.

World War II started over a dispute about Danzig.

Just saying.

No, WWII started because of perceived weakness among the Allies and overconfidence in the German military

In the case of Taiwan china is regressing and the window of opportunity is closing due Japan rearming

 

[Stryder50]

World War I started as a dispute between Austria and Serbia over Bosnia.

World War II started over a dispute about Danzig.

Just saying.

World War II in Europe started about 4-5 years sooner than what/when Hitler was planning for starting it. mainly because Poland resisted German attack.

In the Pacific it had started earlier with Japan's chipping away at China's turf.

 

[JoeB131]

Never mind what china says

When the chicom dictators lay off the rice wine or expensive imported Scottish whisky and make a sober assessment they will not invade Taiwan unless they are certain they can win

And it remains far from a sure thing now

Nor is it likely to get any better unless the white monkeys sew disillusion in the West

Wow, you are already working on your "Stabbed in the Back" myth for when we lose, eh?

 

[JoeB131]

World War II in Europe started about 4-5 years sooner than what/when Hitler was planning for starting it. mainly because Poland resisted German attack.

In the Pacific it had started earlier with Japan's chipping away at China's turf.

The Second Sino-Japanese War only got folded into WWII.

As for Poland, Hitler wanted to make an alliance with Poland against the USSR. They resisted because Chamberlain wrote the Polish Colonels a blank check. So he went around them and made a deal with Stalin instead.

My point is that small local conflicts never stay local.

 

[Mac-7]

Wow, you are already working on your "Stabbed in the Back" myth for when we lose, eh?

If libs take power and let china have Taiwan without a fight they are stabbing America in the back

 

[Stryder50]

Whenever you lose a war, you'll hear from the people who say they'd have won if they had been doing the fighting.



I think you misunderstood what happened at Munich. Chamberlain didn't WANT to stop Hitler. He wanted Hitler to take out Stalin for him. The West was more afraid of Stalin than Hitler. Even when Hitler invaded Poland, he did nothing, really. (See Phony War). Only when Hitler overran the West did the West take this shit seriously.

Just like we hear from people who say we could never have won and shouldn't have bothered, who don't know how to do the fighting effectively.

Iraq was lost when Obama failed to back and support the Green Movement which sought to overthrow the Mullahs/Islamism running the government in Iran - which was a major supporter of the insurrection inside of Iraq. My son, who was there with 1st Cav, in Sadr City, told me half or more of those they killed and captured were carrying grave markers in the Farsi language.

In Afghanistan, the Taliban were started/supported by the hardcore Islamist faction within Pakistan's ISI. Only way to have defeated the Taliban would have been to engage their ISI supporters and that likely would have resulted in civil war within Pakistan. With no certainty such an expanded conflict would have ended in USA/West favor.

 

[Stryder50]

The Second Sino-Japanese War only got folded into WWII.

As for Poland, Hitler wanted to make an alliance with Poland against the USSR. They resisted because Chamberlain wrote the Polish Colonels a blank check. So he went around them and made a deal with Stalin instead.

My point is that small local conflicts never stay local.

Some small local wars do stay local. See the numerous ones currently happening in Africa. And also numerous other examples throughout history and around the globe. Some recent ones this past century in Central and South America for example.

Japan was already engaging in conflict and conquest throughout East Asia years before Hitler attacked Poland. It was Japan's alliance with Germany that made the numerous conflicts of that time a "World War" rather than many regional ones.

Only thing Chamberlain, and France, could do for Poland once it was attacked would have been to attack Germany on their Western border. The British Army and Air Force weren't even strong enough to defend against German attack, let alone attack into Germany. Nor did France have the strength and organization to do so along with the UK.

You're right partly in that it was a blank check of support for Poland, a political bluff to hopefully discourage Hitler. UK and France belatedly realized that their military needed more build-up and improvement to catch-up to that of Germany, and/or Russia.

When Russia joined in the invasion of Poland and took the Eastern half, followed by seizing the Baltic States and attacking Finland, it looked like the two largest militarizes in the world were going to carve our Europe and Eurasia between them. Especially when Germany went North into Scandinavia.

Meanwhile Japan had a brief clash with Russia, had control of Korea, Manchuria/Manchuko, chipping out chunks of China and (largely unknown to the West) was building up forces and making invasion plans for it's Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

 

[JoeB131]

God Damn, are you ******* stupid? Do they let you out of the house by yourself?

Just like we hear from people who say we could never have won and shouldn't have bothered, who don't know how to do the fighting effectively.

Well, gee, all the military geniuses with their trillion-dollar budgets couldn't beat Afghanistan or Iraq. We never should have gone into Iraq, and in Afghanistan, our only objective should have been killing Bin Laden and his cronies.

Iraq was lost when Obama failed to back and support the Green Movement which sought to overthrow the Mullahs/Islamism running the government in Iran - which was a major supporter of the insurrection inside of Iraq. My son, who was there with 1st Cav, in Sadr City, told me half or more of those they killed and captured were carrying grave markers in the Farsi language.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

First, we had already written off Iraq by the time Obama got there. Our fight in Iraq was never with the Iranian-backed Shi'ites; it was with the Ba'athist Sunnis who eventually became ISIL. As early as 2004, EVERYONE knew that a "Democratic" Iraq would be pro-Iran. The President of Iran could walk down the streets of Baghdad as an honored guest, while Dubya had to sneak in on secret flights so no one would throw shoes at him.

As for the Green Movement, it never had a chance of overthrowing the Mullahs, who are supported by most Iranians.

In Afghanistan, the Taliban were started/supported by the hardcore Islamist faction within Pakistan's ISI. Only way to have defeated the Taliban would have been to engage their ISI supporters and that likely would have resulted in civil war within Pakistan. With no certainty such an expanded conflict would have ended in USA/West favor.

Again- BULLSHIT. The mistake was thinking that the Afghans wanted to drink Coca-Cola and listen to rock music. They never wanted that. The Taliban won because they were more popular than the quislings we were propping up for 20 years.

 

[JoeB131]

Some small local wars do stay local. See the numerous ones currently happening in Africa. And also numerous other examples throughout history and around the globe. Some recent ones this past century in Central and South America for example.

Japan was already engaging in conflict and conquest throughout East Asia years before Hitler attacked Poland. It was Japan's alliance with Germany that made the numerous conflicts of that time a "World War" rather than many regional ones.

Only thing Chamberlain, and France, could do for Poland once it was attacked would have been to attack Germany on their Western border. The British Army and Air Force weren't even strong enough to defend against German attack, let alone attack into Germany. Nor did France have the strength and organization to do so along with the UK.

You're right partly in that it was a blank check of support for Poland, a political bluff to hopefully discourage Hitler. UK and France belatedly realized that their military needed more build-up and improvement to catch-up to that of Germany, and/or Russia.

When Russia joined in the invasion of Poland and took the Eastern half, followed by seizing the Baltic States and attacking Finland, it looked like the two largest militarizes in the world were going to carve our Europe and Eurasia between them. Especially when Germany went North into Scandinavia.

Meanwhile Japan had a brief clash with Russia, had control of Korea, Manchuria/Manchuko, chipping out chunks of China and (largely unknown to the West) was building up forces and making invasion plans for it's Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

So essentially, we let a dispute over the Danzig corridor turn into a world war. Thank you.

Sounds like a good reason not to escalate over Taiwan, doesn't it?

Let's be clear about how absolutely stupid our position on Taiwan is.

We have no ambassador to Taiwan, we don't recognize it as a nation, and it doesn't have a seat in the UN.

We follow something called the "One China" policy, which recognizes Taiwan as a province of China.

The population of Taiwan is 98% Han Chinese (the native population having been subsumed centuries ago), they speak Mandarin, they write in Hanzi, and they call themselves "The Republic of China".

This is an internal dispute.

All that said, I don't think China will make a move on Taiwan unless Taiwan does something particularly reckless, like trying to declare independence, which would be a true FAFO moment.

 

[Unkotare]

It seems JoeBlow has received updated orders from the CCP.

 

[JoeB131]

It seems JoeBlow has received updated orders from the CCP.

No, I just wonder why people like you are so willing to sacrifice young Americans in a fight that has nothing to do with us. Not just Taiwan, but Ukraine, Venezuela, and a bunch of other places that have nothing to do with us.

I give you, Joe B's plan for peace.

Bring back a draft so everyone has skin in the game, not just working poor people trying to get into college.

The children of the rich and the politicians will be assigned to an elite airborne unit which will be the first deployed to any war zone.

Peace in our time.

 

[Unkotare]

No, I just wonder why people like you are so willing to sacrifice young Americans in a fight that has nothing to do with us. Not just Taiwan, but Ukraine, Venezuela, and a bunch of other places that have nothing to do with us.

I give you, Joe B's plan for peace.

Bring back a draft so everyone has skin in the game, not just working poor people trying to get into college.

The children of the rich and the politicians will be assigned to an elite airborne unit which will be the first deployed to any war zone.

Peace in our time.

Many professional military leaders have expressed opposition to the draft unless absolutely necessary. For good reason.

 

[JoeB131]

Many professional military leaders have expressed opposition to the draft unless absolutely necessary. For good reason.

Because unwilling people are a pain in the ass to train.

Operationally, I agree with them. It was enough of a pain to train people who wanted to be there.

The reason why we ended the draft was that the rich found ways to get out of it, which everyone realized was unfair.

Conversely, the volunteer army mostly picks on lower-income people, which is why you find all the recruiting stations in the inner city and not so many in the affluent suburbs.

As a political statement, though, national service (not just limited to the armed forces) would be good policy, as long as it was universal and there was no favoritism as to who got sent where. (Although I still like my Rich Boy Airborne Unit idea. We could call it the "Flying Douchebags").

 

[Stryder50]

So essentially, we let a dispute over the Danzig corridor turn into a world war. Thank you.

Sounds like a good reason not to escalate over Taiwan, doesn't it?

Let's be clear about how absolutely stupid our position on Taiwan is.

We have no ambassador to Taiwan, we don't recognize it as a nation, and it doesn't have a seat in the UN.

We follow something called the "One China" policy, which recognizes Taiwan as a province of China.

The population of Taiwan is 98% Han Chinese (the native population having been subsumed centuries ago), they speak Mandarin, they write in Hanzi, and they call themselves "The Republic of China".

This is an internal dispute.

All that said, I don't think China will make a move on Taiwan unless Taiwan does something particularly reckless, like trying to declare independence, which would be a true FAFO moment.

Just a piece of Austria.
Just a piece Czechoslovakia.
Just a piece of France.
Just a piece of Poland.

Just another piece and then you have Peace.

A piece here and a piece there didn't result in peace.

 

[JoeB131]

Just a piece of Austria.
Just a piece Czechoslovakia.
Just a piece of France.
Just a piece of Poland.

Just another piece and then you have Peace.

A piece here and a piece there didn't result in peace.

Well, no, because they insisted on a war they weren't ready to fight. Their mouths wrote checks their asses couldn't cash.

The thing was, Austria was all on board with uniting with Germany. We tend to think of Austria as a victim, but it was really a colaborator.

As for Czechoslovakia, the problem was, after Germany took the German parts, the rest of Europe acted like there was a fire sale going on, which is why Slovakia broke away and Poland and Hungary grabbed up land.

So that gets us to Poland. Germany only demanded the sliver of land connecting Germany with East Prussia and Danzig. Poland ended up losing everything because the British lied to the Polish Colonels.

 

[JWBooth]

Formosa isn’t going to be invaded. Assimilated? Maybe.

 

[toobfreak]

That's too funny. We are the world superpower. We could kick China's ass in a war and they know it.

The USA has weapons we won't even admit to existing. But like a good poker player, we keep our true strength a secret.

We have all of the captured UFO technology.

 

[JoeB131]

The USA has weapons we won't even admit to existing. But like a good poker player, we keep our true strength a secret.

We have all of the captured UFO technology.

Do we? How do we know no flying saucers crashed in China?

 

[22lcidw]

The USA has weapons we won't even admit to existing. But like a good poker player, we keep our true strength a secret.

We have all of the captured UFO technology.

For all of the trillions of dollars we cannot account for, that is a preferable answer.