"In War Over Taiwan, We Lose Every Time"

[fncceo]

How about, instead of relying on aircraft carriers to bail out Taiwan, we use large destroyers equipped with 10K RPM AA guns and hypersonic missiles of their own?
Combined with drones that explicitly send out signals impersonating real US naval assets, we could perhaps tip the balance of power in our favor again?

How long have you been in charge of The Pentagon?

 

[peacefan]

How long have you been in charge of The Pentagon?

i'm just an open source intelligence volunteer analyst

 

[peacefan]

I feel that I should give you a rather funny response to all of this but it will come across as a "Conspiracy Theory." It is based on "Operation Paperclip" though and that is a very interesting part of USA and world history.

by all means, we're interested

 

[kyzr]

Of course he understand it. Actually, in inner policy Putin is more than flexible. But there is no place for flexibility in the question of safety of Russian people and Russian Federation. I mean, you wouldn't be flexible in the question of deployment of Chinese IRBMs in Canada and genocide of WASPs there.

There was no genocide of Russians in Ukraine before Putin invaded. 2014 was a stalemate.
Putin miscalculated how quickly he could capture Kiev, now the war is going into year 4, with only wasted lives to show for it.
NATO membership is off the table, so your worry about nukes in Ukraine is nonsense, besides, your Oreshniks could dispose of them.

It's pretty stupid idea. There will be no "buffer zones". There will be no "buffer zones" and no "peacekeepers". Just imitation of diplomatic activity. Like saying "good doggy" while opening your holster.

Zelenskyy will be in FL with Trump talking about one peace plan with buffer zones, and now Putin is talking about a completely different plan. So you are right, after months of "diplomacy", it looks like peace is not going to happen any time soon.
You just described the real definition of "diplomacy", not sure who is better at saying "nice doggie".
Maybe its time to tell Putin its time for peace or his $300b goes to Ukraine?

 

[Ringo]

 

[Zavulon]

There was no genocide of Russians in Ukraine before Putin invaded.

Denialism is a form of support. And if you support genocide, you are a part of the problem, and can't be a part of its solution. That makes all those peace talks just practically useless.

2014 was a stalemate.
Putin miscalculated how quickly he could capture Kiev, now the war is going into year 4, with only wasted lives to show for it.
NATO membership is off the table, so your worry about nukes in Ukraine is nonsense, besides, your Oreshniks could dispose of them.

"NATO-like security guarantees" are practical equivalent of NATO membership, and even according Trump - they are not off the table. Say nothing about NATO forces (including IRBMs) in Eastern European NATO members.
You should roll back yoir forces, or we'll roll them back.

Zelenskyy will be in FL with Trump talking about one peace plan with buffer zones, and now Putin is talking about a completely different plan.

Yep. Zelenskiy got his money and he has no reason to make peace. Our plan is quite simple and our minimal demands are still the same: denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status of Ukraine.

So you are right, after months of "diplomacy", it looks like peace is not going to happen any time soon.

Yep.

You just described the real definition of "diplomacy", not sure who is better at saying "nice doggie".

We both understand that it is just courtuasity. We don't shout to each other -
"Hate you, M'shika!"
"Hate you, Ch'aka!"
"Kill you, M'shika! You coming again on my part of the ground with your carrion-meat slaves!"
"You lie, Ch'aka—this ground mine from way back."
"I kill you way back!"

But the meaning is pretty the same. NATO came on our land with their carrion-meat slaves and now NATO should roll back or die.

Maybe its time to tell Putin its time for peace or his $300b goes to Ukraine?

No. $300b is nothing, comparing with the very survival of Russian people. And anyway, you can take those money, but you'll pay seven times more after Brussel is evaporated.

 

[kyzr]

Denialism is a form of support. And if you support genocide, you are a part of the problem, and can't be a part of its solution. That makes all those peace talks just practically useless.

There was nothing to deny. Genocide means mass casualties, thousands or millions of people killed.
No genocide happened in Ukraine. That is not "denial", that is fact.

"NATO-like security guarantees" are practical equivalent of NATO membership, and even according to Trump - they are not off the table. Say nothing about NATO forces (including IRBMs) in Eastern European NATO members. You should roll back your forces, or we'll roll them back.

A peace deal means Russia won't invade Ukraine in the future. That may look like Ukraine is in NATO. But Ukraine won't be in NATO. I'm not sure what that will look like??? A few EU military bases in Ukraine? Nothing threatening to Russia, what we call a "tripwire" to a military or non-military response. It will be a bitter pill for Putin to swallow, so I'm not optimistic. Russia could never roll back NATO, so don't even think about starting WW3.

Yep. Zelenskiy got his money and he has no reason to make peace. Our plan is quite simple and our minimal demands are still the same: denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status of Ukraine.

That seems simple enough. There are no Nazis. Ukraine must have a military to defend itself from any future invasion.
Neutral status means no NATO membership, but they can enter the EU.

But the meaning is pretty the same. NATO came on our land with their carrion-meat slaves and now NATO should roll back or die.

Independent countries joined NATO. No Russian land was involved. Maybe the answer is for Russia to join NATO?

No. $300b is nothing, comparing with the very survival of Russian people. And anyway, you can take those money, but you'll pay seven times more after Brussel is evaporated.

Russian people have nothing to fear from NATO. Any attack on NATO starts WW3, a very bad idea.

 

[shockedcanadian]

China should win in the long run. However, whichever nations loses it will be due to their own governments decisions. Whichever nations stands up for liberty and rule of law will win the hearts and minds of civilization. China is trying to influence the West to weaken them in this regard while.pushing PR thorugh white monkeys etc. America has allowed greed to undermine their security against China in particular. Until you (and the rest of the West) separate your economy from Chinas it is hard to change.

 

[Zavulon]

There was nothing to deny. Genocide means mass casualties, thousands or millions of people killed.
No genocide happened in Ukraine. That is not "denial", that is fact.

There is genocide and there are thousands of people killed and much more replaced，and as you denie it - you are a part of problem.

A peace deal means Russia won't invade Ukraine in the future.

No. Peace deal means that Ukraine will join Russia by parts, just a bit slower and with lesser human losses better peaceful way. Nikolayev, Odessa，Kharkov, Sumy, Dniepropetrovsk before 2030.

That may look like Ukraine is in NATO. But Ukraine won't be in NATO.

Doesn't matter. NATO forces in Ukraine and Eastern Europe should return at least to 1997 borders.

I'm not sure what that will look like??? A few EU military bases in Ukraine? Nothing threatening to Russia, what we call a "tripwire" to a military or non-military response.

Even existing configuration of NATO forces is already "threatening". They should roll back if you want to keep peace in Europe. If they keep their positions or advance eastward, it means that they are going to start WWIII and attack Russia. And we can't prevent WWIII, we can only decrease our own losses by preempive strike against US, French and British nuclear forces.

It will be a bitter pill for Putin to swallow, so I'm not optimistic. Russia could never roll back NATO, so don't even think about starting WW3.

Of course we can, and we will. Or you can alleviate by yourself.

That seems simple enough. There are no Nazis.

There are Nazies, and they should be eliminated. And, btw, there are Nazi regimes in Baltic states. You can denazificate them by yourself and provide local Russians equal rights peacefully, or we are going to do it militarily.

Ukraine must have a military to defend itself from any future invasion.

No. Ukraine as an anti-Russian fake state should end its existence.

Neutral status means no NATO membership, but they can enter the EU.

We'll see.

Independent countries joined NATO. No Russian land was involved.

Ukraine is Russian land. Actually, even parts of Poland, Lithuania and the USA are Russian lands. But it is not urgent.

Maybe the answer is for Russia to join NATO?

May be. But NATO should change its nature. I don't think it's possible.

Russian people have nothing to fear from NATO.

NATO countries try to genocide Russians at least twice a century, and even now genocide of Russian people is openly dec

Any attack on NATO starts WW3, a very bad idea.

If you don't alleviate, it means that you already decided to start WWIII. All what we can do in this situation, is to attack you first.
And yes, it seems as almost inevitable scenario to me.

 

[kyzr]

There is genocide and there are thousands of people killed and much more replaced，and as you deny it - you are a part of problem.

Please provide a link proving your claim of recent genocide of Russians in Ukraine. I call bullshit.

No. Peace deal means that Ukraine will join Russia by parts, just a bit slower and with lesser human losses better peaceful way. Nikolayev, Odessa，Kharkov, Sumy, Dniepropetrovsk before 2030.

Not if the US puts up a 15-year security guarantee as Trump is pushing.

Doesn't matter. NATO forces in Ukraine and Eastern Europe should return at least to 1997 borders.

Independent countries joined NATO. They will not give up NATO membership. Sweden even joined NATO, so Putin's war was a strategic disaster.

Even existing configuration of NATO forces is already "threatening". They should roll back if you want to keep peace in Europe. If they keep their positions or advance eastward, it means that they are going to start WWIII and attack Russia. And we can't prevent WWIII, we can only decrease our own losses by preempive strike against US, French and British nuclear forces.

There should be some NATO countries Putin sees as less threatening, Turkey? USA? having some troops in Ukraine as peacekeepers. Russia has no say over who joins NATO, there will be no rollback to 1997. EU countries don't trust Russia, and with good reasons.

Of course we can, and we will. Or you can alleviate by yourself.

A rollback will never happen. NATO is a defensive alliance. Russia's military is exhausted from fighting in Ukraine.

There are Nazies, and they should be eliminated. And, btw, there are Nazi regimes in Baltic states. You can denazificate them by yourself and provide local Russians equal rights peacefully, or we are going to do it militarily.

There are no Nazis. That is Russian propaganda. Russia is too weak economically and militarily to test NATO.

No. Ukraine as an anti-Russian fake state should end its existence.

Ukrainians think they are real, and they are killing Russians by the thousands every week, starting year-4.

We'll see.

Ukraine will enter the EU, but probably not NATO. Away from Russia's "sphere of influence".

Ukraine is Russian land. Actually, even parts of Poland, Lithuania and the USA are Russian lands. But it is not urgent.

Ukraine was part of the USSR, not Russia. The NATO borders are not going to change.

May be. But NATO should change its nature. I don't think it's possible.

I'm sure some countries would object to Russia joining NATO, my point was that if Russia joined NATO they would see it is not a threat.

NATO countries try to genocide Russians at least twice a century, and even now genocide of Russian people is openly dec

Don't look backward, look forward. Peace is better than war.

If you don't alleviate, it means that you already decided to start WWIII. All what we can do in this situation, is to attack you first.
And yes, it seems as almost inevitable scenario to me.

Russia can't make demands on NATO countries. MAD only works if leaders are sane.

 

[Ringo]

Russia can't make demands on NATO countries. MAD only works if leaders are sane.

That's the problem. Most European leaders are insane.
And so is a significant portion of the population.

 

[kyzr]

That's the problem. Most European leaders are insane.
And so is a significant portion of the population.

Proof of that is when the EU guys call for the "decolonization" of Russia.
Why piss Putin off with meaningless empty threats when Trump is trying to negotiate a peace deal?

 

[Ringo]

Why piss Putin off with meaningless empty threats when Trump is trying to negotiate a peace deal?

See post #71.

 

[Couchpotato]

The new anti ship missiles are a serious threat to our aircraft carriers

So they could not be deployed in restricted waters such as the Taiwan Straights or the Persian Gulf

Hopefully we will be rid of the obama-biden junta DEI admirals before the next war and our carriers will be used intelligently

China has no way to project power (other than ICBM's ) on the US. So while it might take time to penetrate their air defenses and kill their missile sites we have it. They dont.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Taiwan is facing a takeover and are no match for China. Let's make them an offer to join the United States quickly and quietly until the merge is complete, and then let China know that Taiwan is off the table.

 

[Mac-7]

China has no way to project power (other than ICBM's ) on the US. So while it might take time to penetrate their air defenses and kill their missile sites we have it. They dont.

I’m not concerned about a direct attack by china against the US

The chicoms may be crazy but they arent stupid

What the want is hegmony, including military and economic

Occupying Taiwan would be a giant step forward for them and a disaster for America

Once they have us in their power the US can continue to be a source of wealth for them

 

[Zavulon]

Please provide a link proving your claim of recent genocide of Russians in Ukraine. I call bullshit.

Are you banned in google? Putin says conflict in eastern Ukraine 'looks like GENOCIDE'

Not if the US puts up a 15-year security guarantee as Trump is pushing.

No. Any "security guarantees" is declaration that the USA will start a war on Russia at any moment choosen by Ukraine and/or the USA. It makes the big war between Russia and the USA inevitable and if the war is inevitable it is much better to attack first. That's why Russia will attack the USA before it.

Independent countries joined NATO. They will not give up NATO membership.

Yep. But even as NATO members they should have restrain from participation in preparation to an offensive war on Russia. So, if NATO wants a peace with Russia - NATO (first of all the USA) should demilitarise Eastern Europe. That's not what happens now, actually, NATO militarise Eastern Europe and, therefore Russia have no other option but taking measures for elimination of this threat.

Sweden even joined NATO, so Putin's war was a strategic disaster.

No. We just allow all bad eggs gather in one basket, and all what we have to do now - is to burn this basket.

There should be some NATO countries Putin sees as less threatening, Turkey? USA? having some troops in Ukraine as peacekeepers.

No. If there will be peacekeepers in Ukraine, there will be Russian peacekeepers.

Russia has no say over who joins NATO, there will be no rollback to 1997. EU countries don't trust Russia, and with good reasons.

There will be rollback to at least 1997. One way or another.

A rollback will never happen. NATO is a defensive alliance. Russia's military is exhausted from fighting in Ukraine.

Russia's military just warming up in Ukraine, and, anyway, we are not going to fight NATO "conventionally".

There are no Nazis. That is Russian propaganda.

Of course they are Nazies (in Russian understanding of the term).

Russia is too weak economically and militarily to test NATO.

Really? We'll see.

Ukrainians think they are real, and they are killing Russians by the thousands every week, starting year-4.

And Hillbillies are real. Does it mean that they should have their own independent country?

Ukraine will enter the EU, but probably not NATO. Away from Russia's "sphere of influence".

If they want to leave Russian "sphere of influence" they should go to Mars (or even further). Russia is a global power, and the Earth is Russian "sphere of influence".

Ukraine was part of the USSR, not Russia.

Ukraine was a part of Russian Empire, too. Anyway, both USSR and Russian Empire are just stages of Russia.

The NATO borders are not going to change.

You should have to think about it much earlier. Now it's too late. You moved them eastward, we'll move them westward.

I'm sure some countries would object to Russia joining NATO, my point was that if Russia joined NATO they would see it is not a threat.

Don't look backward, look forward. Peace is better than war.

Not every peace is better than war. Actually, if we eliminate the USA and NATO and pay for it lesser than 40 mln killed it is much better than even allow you to keep even current configuration of military forces and then, in the moment you choose - kill us.

Russia can't make demands on NATO countries.

Of course we can, and we do.

MAD only works if leaders are sane.

MAD doesn't works at all. It is pretty obsolete and pseudoscientific conception. We are talking about "unacceptable damage" nowadays. And any damage is acceptable if we are talking about preventing our genocide.

 

[kyzr]

Are you banned in google? Putin says conflict in eastern Ukraine 'looks like GENOCIDE'

"looks like genocide" isn't genocide. There is no body count or proof of genocide.

No. Any "security guarantees" is declaration that the USA will start a war on Russia at any moment chosen by Ukraine and/or the USA. It makes the big war between Russia and the USA inevitable and if the war is inevitable it is much better to attack first. That's why Russia will attack the USA before it.

Nonsense. Why would the US or Ukraine attack Russia? There is nothing to gain from attacking a poor country.
Russia just moved Oreshniks into Belarus. Putin keeps saying "nice doggie" while preparing for WW3, I thought he was smarter than that.

Yep. But even as NATO members they should have restrain from participation in preparation to an offensive war on Russia. So, if NATO wants a peace with Russia - NATO (first of all the USA) should demilitarise Eastern Europe. That's not what happens now, actually, NATO militarise Eastern Europe and, therefore Russia have no other option but taking measures for elimination of this threat.

There has been no US military buildup in the EU, the only aggressor there has been Russia, so EU countries are building up their militaries as a deterrent to Russia

No. We just allow all bad eggs gather in one basket, and all what we have to do now - is to burn this basket.

Russian cities would be incinerated, so be careful what you burn.

No. If there will be peacekeepers in Ukraine, there will be Russian peacekeepers.

If no peace deal, then keep fighting and dying in Ukraine.

There will be rollback to at least 1997. One way or another.

Never happen. Russia doesn't want a fight with NATO, it can't even take Ukraine.

Russia's military just warming up in Ukraine, and, anyway, we are not going to fight NATO "conventionally".

Fighting 4-years and a million casualties isn't warming up, its wearing down.

Of course they are Nazies (in Russian understanding of the term).

Russian propaganda. There are no Nazis.

Really? We'll see.

Yep. We'll see if Russia attacks a NATO country.

And Hillbillies are real. Does it mean that they should have their own independent country?

Ukrainians do have their independent county, and its being invaded by Russia.

If they want to leave Russian "sphere of influence" they should go to Mars (or even further). Russia is a global power, and the Earth is Russian "sphere of influence".

Russia is a big oil field with missiles and nuclear weapons. Its tiny economy can't support projecting global power.

Ukraine was a part of Russian Empire, too. Anyway, both USSR and Russian Empire are just stages of Russia.

Stop living in the past.

You should have to think about it much earlier. Now it's too late. You moved them eastward, we'll move them westward.

Russia can't attack NATO without being destroyed.

Not every peace is better than war. Actually, if we eliminate the USA and NATO and pay for it lesser than 40 mln killed it is much better than even allow you to keep even current configuration of military forces and then, in the moment you choose - kill us.

That makes no sense. Its what we call a "bluff".

Of course we can, and we do.

What "demands" has Russia made of NATO? I missed those.

MAD doesn't work at all. It is pretty obsolete and pseudo-scientific conception. We are talking about "unacceptable damage" nowadays. And any damage is acceptable if we are talking about preventing our genocide.

More Russian propaganda. NATO doesn't threaten Russia, unless Russia attacks first.