Will Trump's Appeasement Policies Work?

[Samofvt]

No The policy is to contain Russia by strength. Russia cant invade Poland that would trigger NATO who has superior firepower

"cant" is a strong word.

Russia has FAILED in trying to take over ukraine. Their military has been decimated in their failed operation.

They would be insane to expand the war. It would be national suicide.

Putin and his inner circle are insane, so that points to a stronger case that he intends to. Putin probably isn't even the craziest.

I am ok with Trumps policy so far. But time is of the essence.

 

[Zavulon]

Are we planning to invade?

Russians believe that yes, you do. More likely, after counter-force strike on Russian nukes. May be not now, but later, but it is what you are definitely going to do.

 

[Zavulon]

No The policy is to contain Russia by strength. Russia cant invade Poland that would trigger NATO who has superior firepower

But, in the terms of megatonange Russia is stronger, and, for Russia, American ICBMs are more dangerous than Polish infantry. So, when situation escalate to direct Russian-US clashes, one of the first things Russia will do - is a nuclear attack on US ICBMs, control centers, bases of SSBNs and strategic bombers.

 

[Correll]

"cant" is a strong word.



Putin and his inner circle are insane, so that points to a stronger case that he intends to. Putin probably isn't even the craziest.

I am ok with Trumps policy so far. But time is of the essence.

His behavior to date is not insane.

It is in line with centuries long russian interests and methods.

And shockingly bloody minded to western sensibilities.


But not insane.


I do worry about his mental state as he ages, and time runs short and/or he starts to get pressure about the human cost to his state, from his base.

 

[Correll]

Russians believe that yes, you do. More likely, after counter-force strike on Russian nukes. May be not now, but later, but it is what you are definitely going to do.

LOL. That's dumb.

The reward to risk is insane. Insanely BAD.

I am happy to talk about how badly your military has done and about what you cannot do.

BUt I do not make the mistake of seeing the difficulty that you are having in aggressive action, to lead me to think that in a defensive war, that your war machine would collapse like a house of cards, IE "KICK THE DORR IN".

I am sure that in an INVASION of russia, that you could cause... terrible costs to the invaders.

TRUMP is not dumb enough to think otherwise.

HILLARY might have been that dumb. HARRIS I'm sure was too.

But they lost. THANK ******* GOD.

 

[Zavulon]

LOL. That's dumb.

The reward to risk is insane. Insanely BAD.

I am happy to talk about how badly your military has done and about what you cannot do.

BUt I do not make the mistake of seeing the difficulty that you are having in aggressive action, to lead me to think that in a defensive war, that your war machine would collapse like a house of cards, IE "KICK THE DORR IN".

I am sure that in an INVASION of russia, that you could cause... terrible costs to the invaders.

TRUMP is not dumb enough to think otherwise.

HILLARY might have been that dumb. HARRIS I'm sure was too.

But they lost. THANK ******* GOD.

It was dumb to support Ukraine, either. Actually, Europeans doesn't have much of choice. They are crowded at their little peninsula and desperately need Russians resources (and they can't afford to pay proper price). That is exactly why they attack Russia at least twice a century. And almost always get themselves beaten and raped.

 

[Correll]

It was dumb to support Ukraine, either.

Not really. From a "real politic" point of view, russia is a threat and thus undermining it in a proxy war, makes sense. It doesn't cost very much and Russia is weakened and thus less of a threat.

To be clear, I do not endorse "real politic". I think it is an immoral theory and is often short sighted and far less rational then it's holders like to pretend.

Actually, Europeans doesn't have much of choice. They are crowded at their little peninsula and desperately need Russians resources (and they can't afford to pay proper price).

That's nonsense. The europeans have plenty of "living room" and are easily able to pay market rates for resources.

Indeed, they are dying population too. Their future is one of fighting to hold their on territories from the hordes from the south, not one of expansion.

That is exactly why they attack Russia at least twice a century. And almost always get themselves beaten and raped.

That is a simplification of history to the point of stupidity.

 

[Zavulon]

Not really. From a "real politic" point of view, russia is a threat and thus undermining it in a proxy war, makes sense. It doesn't cost very much and Russia is weakened and thus less of a threat.

To be clear, I do not endorse "real politic". I think it is an immoral theory and is often short sighted and far less rational then it's holders like to pretend.

Yep. Actually, playing this games have two weak points:
1) A dog might attack a stick. A wolf will try to reach your throat.
2) The enemy of my enemy is, quite often, my next problem. You raised Islam radicalism to fight Russians, and now Russians rolled back from Poland, but you got radical islam in your home.

Nowadays Americans support European Nazism, and highly likely, tomorrow they will pay terrible price for it.

That's nonsense. The europeans have plenty of "living room" and are easily able to pay market rates for resources.

Of course, no. Paying fair price make them much less competitive. With the same amount of energy China or India can do more than Germany.

Indeed, they are dying population too. Their future is one of fighting to hold their on territories from the hordes from the south, not one of expansion.

C'mon. Give then an opportunity and they will put all those Semites (both Jews and Arabs) is gas chambers and ovens.

That is a simplification of history to the point of stupidity.

Just an observation. There is a winter every year, and there is European invasion twice a century. And actually, nothing happened. They already came in Russia (and Ukraine is a part of Russia), and there will be no peace until they are defeated. We know it. Europe know it. May be, Americans, however incompetent, also know it. And all those "peace initiatives" are nothing but buffonade and circus.

 

[Correll]

Yep. Actually, playing this games have two weak points:
1) A dog might attack a stick. A wolf will try to reach your throat.
2) The enemy of my enemy is, quite often, my next problem. You raised Islam radicalism to fight Russians, and now Russians rolled back from Poland, but you got radical islam in your home.

Reasonable complaints against real politic.

But don't tell me. Tell the euro leaders. They love that stupid shit.

you know, your russian methods reek of similar shit.

Indeed, one could interprete the way so many Americans think of Russia as inherently our enemy, as long term blowback from Korea or Vietnam, or any of thousands of terrorist operations done with kgb support.

You played the very same game, of proxy war, against us for a long time. Very effectively and very bloodily and very successfully.

Playing the innocent victim, isn't going to be very convincing to very many people, at this late date, comrad.

Nowadays Americans support European Nazism, and highly likely, tomorrow they will pay terrible price for it.

Calling your enemies nazis, carries no weight with us today. Too much shit talk from leftards for generations.

Of course, no. Paying fair price make them much less competitive. With the same amount of energy China or India can do more than Germany.

Germany is running out of workers at least as fast as you russsians are.

They are crashing and burning the same way you are.

C'mon. Give then an opportunity and they will put all those Semites (both Jews and Arabs) is gas chambers and ovens.

The europeans are weak ass simps. They can't protect their own women and children from those hordes.

Just an observation. There is a winter every year, and there is European invasion twice a century. And actually, nothing happened. They already came in Russia (and Ukraine is a part of Russia), and there will be no peace until they are defeated. We know it. Europe know it. May be, Americans, however incompetent, also know it. And all those "peace initiatives" are nothing but buffonade and circus.

YOu are living in a past based dreamland. You are being silly.

 

[Samofvt]

Yep. Actually, playing this games have two weak points:
1) A dog might attack a stick. A wolf will try to reach your throat.
2) The enemy of my enemy is, quite often, my next problem.

You make some interesting points there.

You raised Islam radicalism to fight Russians, and now Russians rolled back from Poland, but you got radical islam in your home.

I think you have had some mis-information about that.

Nowadays Americans support European Nazism, and highly likely, tomorrow they will pay terrible price for it.

The leftists seem to support European trends. It's because they can not see the connection between their desire to put everything into the government and totalitarianism.

There is not a large difference between Russian and American socialism at the moment.

Supporters of the MAGA trend are working to pull down the socialist system and return more power to the individual states and to the people.

Of course, no. Paying fair price make them much less competitive. With the same amount of energy China or India can do more than Germany.


C'mon. Give then an opportunity and they will put all those Semites (both Jews and Arabs) is gas chambers and ovens.

I don't think so. There seems to be a lot of work done in order to prevent that and they seem to be living together. There may be some pockets left, i don't know.

It looks like Russia is the only one wishing to kill people just because they want to be called Ukrainian, not Russian. I don't think everyone in Russia feels that way, and I believe it is only the current leadership of the Russian federation, and very brainwashed individuals that can not look at facts rationally and make their own decisions.

Just an observation. There is a winter every year, and there is European invasion twice a century. And actually, nothing happened. They already came in Russia (and Ukraine is a part of Russia), and there will be no peace until they are defeated. We know it. Europe know it. May be, Americans, however incompetent, also know it. And all those "peace initiatives" are nothing but buffonade and circus.

I almost can't even read that without getting a migraine headache. It seems that you are saying 2 + 2 = 5 ? I can not imagine the amount of propaganda and brainwashing it took for you to loose your rationality. It would be far more understandable just to say "We want to take Ukraine back and rebuild our empire. We want to make Russia Great Again!" That I could understand.

But the Russian methods are barbaric and are not acceptable. As a cold war era vet of the USA, I was very much hoping that we could join together with Russia someday and uphold to God mankind's worth. It's really too bad. I am sorry in advance.

 

[Zavulon]

You make some interesting points there.

Just common knowledge.

I think you have had some mis-information about that.

I'm not competent enough to judge about America's problems, but many US users here see Islam radicalism as a problem (not to say "threat").

The leftists seem to support European trends. It's because they can not see the connection between their desire to put everything into the government and totalitarianism.

Most of people can see it. May be, it is exactly what they want, like in "Friendtopia" song.

There is not a large difference between Russian and American socialism at the moment.

Exactly at this moment, Russians (including Russian businesses) seems to have a bit more personal freedoms than Americans.

Supporters of the MAGA trend are working to pull down the socialist system and return more power to the individual states and to the people.

Not sure that it is exactly what they are going to get, but it is definitely not my business.

It looks like Russia is the only one wishing to kill people just because they want to be called Ukrainian, not Russian.

But it is simply not true. In Russian Federation you can call yourself whatever you want. If you wish to be called Elf (and there are some twenty thousand of "Elves") - they'll write that you are an Elf. More than 15% of the population of Russian Federation are not ethnic Russians (and there are a lot of "ethnic Ukrainians" among them). The problems starts when they burn alive people who don't want to be Ukrainians.

I don't think everyone in Russia feels that way, and I believe it is only the current leadership of the Russian federation, and very brainwashed individuals that can not look at facts rationally and make their own decisions.

Oh, yeah, that's my *****! Typical American view. Because of your racism (or something else) you can't see Russians as rational and free people who do what they do, because they have pretty good reason to do it. "The horde of brainwashed goons, lead by the irrational dictator". If you actually think so (and I believe you do) there, of course, can't be any "peaceful coexistence".

I almost can't even read that without getting a migraine headache. It seems that you are saying 2 + 2 = 5 ?

I just better know history. There were some nasty things happened in past, like - WWII, WWI in XX century, Napoleon's invasion and Crimean war in XIX, Northern War and Seven Year war in XVIII and so on.... That's what Europeans do, and the leopard didn't change its spots.

I can not imagine the amount of propaganda and brainwashing it took for you to loose your rationality.

There is no need in big amount of propaganda. Actually, currently, Russian propaganda depict Americans much more rational than you depict yourselves here.

It would be far more understandable just to say "We want to take Ukraine back and rebuild our empire. We want to make Russia Great Again!" That I could understand.

But it simply not true. Annexation of the whole Ukraine at once would only decrease our strength, not increase it. I mean, if the USA annex Canada and give all Canadians American citizenship, it will significantly change political landscape in the USA, say nothing about many other problems.

But the Russian methods are barbaric and are not acceptable.

Of course no. Russia and Ukraine combined in four (or in twelve) years of war killed less children than Israel killed in Gaza in few months (or America killed in Iraq).

As a cold war era vet of the USA, I was very much hoping that we could join together with Russia someday and uphold to God mankind's worth. It's really too bad. I am sorry in advance.

No, you can't join together with "Brainwashed goons, lead by irrational dictators". And while you keep this deeply racist point of view - you can't even actually negotiate.

 

[Zavulon]

You played the very same game, of proxy war, against us for a long time. Very effectively and very bloodily

Actually, we continue to play this game, and, looks like, it will become a bit more bloodily pretty soon.

YOu are living in a past based dreamland. You are being silly.

No. It is smart to study past to predict future. In science we call it "The principle of actualism". "What happened in past, will happen in future". You make observations, analyse them and make predictions.

 

[Correll]

Actually, we continue to play this game, and, looks like, it will become a bit more bloodily pretty soon.

Give me the example you are thinking of.

No. It is smart to study past to predict future. In science we call it "The principle of actualism". "What happened in past, will happen in future". You make observations, analyse them and make predictions.

Sure. But if you ignore the changes since the past times, you set your self up for diasaster.

Like in the russian japanese war, when you guys assumed that like all hte other european vs asian wars, that you woudl be able to defeat the less advanced asian power.

You didn't consider that Japan had been busting it's ass trying to INDUSTRIALIZE, as was now a serious power. Far closer to the area of operations.


Today, europe is not a vibrant and growing nest of empires, it is a declining culture, full of old people and various hostile immigration populations.


They are FUCKED. They are not going to be going on wars of conquest.

 

[Zavulon]

Give me the example you are thinking of.

Popular culture gives us a lot of possible examples. Did you watch, say, "Kingsman: The Golden Circle" (2017)? Nothing actually new. A genetically made disease, wide distribution network, drug-dealing carthels, and coerction into peace on certain terms. Say nothing about dirty bombs and DIY-nukes.

You know, if America decided to make terrorist Budanov the head of Ukrainian president's administration (and therefore transform Ukraine into terroristic anclave), America should be ready to face (at the very least) large-scale terroristic war (including WMD-terracts) by itself.

Sure. But if you ignore the changes since the past times, you set your self up for diasaster.

Yep. Of course. But right now I see no reason to ignore Western threat.

Like in the russian japanese war, when you guys assumed that like all hte other european vs asian wars, that you woudl be able to defeat the less advanced asian power.

You didn't consider that Japan had been busting it's ass trying to INDUSTRIALIZE, as was now a serious power. Far closer to the area of operations.


Today, europe is not a vibrant and growing nest of empires, it is a declining culture, full of old people and various hostile immigration populations.

Bla-bla-bla... They do support Ukrainian terrorists and they are preparing to fight a war on Russia.

They are FUCKED. They are not going to be going on wars of conquest.

They already started the war of conquest. And, of course, it's more safe to eliminate them all. Just in case.

 

[Correll]

Popular culture gives us a lot of possible examples. Did you watch, say, "Kingsman: The Golden Circle" (2017)? Nothing actually new. A genetically made disease, wide distribution network, drug-dealing carthels, and coerction into peace on certain terms. Say nothing about dirty bombs and DIY-nukes.

You know, if America decided to make terrorist Budanov the head of Ukrainian president's administration (and therefore transform Ukraine into terroristic anclave), America should be ready to face (at the very least) large-scale terroristic war (including WMD-terracts) by itself.

You say you ARE playing the proxy war game against us now and I ask for an example, and you give me fiction.

Sorry buddy. That's coping.

Yep. Of course. But right now I see no reason to ignore Western threat.


Bla-bla-bla... They do support Ukrainian terrorists and they are preparing to fight a war on Russia.



They already started the war of conquest. And, of course, it's more safe to eliminate them all. Just in case.

A time comes when the manly thing to do, is take the L, and deal with the consequences.

 

[Zavulon]

You say you ARE playing the proxy war game against us now and I ask for an example, and you give me fiction.

Sorry buddy. That's coping.

Of course it's a fiction. You can't buy even $100 booze, why do you think that you can buy a piece of information about something real?

A time comes when the manly thing to do, is take the L, and deal with the consequences.

We don't take the L. That's why we survived with all our evil neighbours.

 

[Samofvt]

Give me the example you are thinking of.



Sure. But if you ignore the changes since the past times, you set your self up for diasaster.

Exactly. Plus, we always need to re-evaluate our observations with an open mind to the possibility we were wrong the last time we looked at something. Not to mention that the landscape changes.

Like in the russian japanese war, when you guys assumed that like all hte other european vs asian wars, that you woudl be able to defeat the less advanced asian power.

You didn't consider that Japan had been busting it's ass trying to INDUSTRIALIZE, as was now a serious power. Far closer to the area of operations.


Today, europe is not a vibrant and growing nest of empires, it is a declining culture, full of old people and various hostile immigration populations.


They are FUCKED. They are not going to be going on wars of conquest.

 

[Correll]

Of course it's a fiction. You can't buy even $100 booze, why do you think that you can buy a piece of information about something real?


We don't take the L. That's why we survived with all our evil neighbours.

More coping.

 

[Zavulon]

More coping.

At least, it seems that your government swallowed it (or believed in their own propaganda). Poor Maduro, but Trump seems to get himself even in worse position with his "War on narco-terrorists". Didn't he?
As I said - "The freaking society of buffonade".

 

[Correll]

At least, it seems that your government swallowed it (or believed in their own propaganda). Poor Maduro, but Trump seems to get himself even in worse position with his "War on narco-terrorists". Didn't he?
As I said - "The freaking society of buffonade".

How so?