Faith is Born from Fear

[AtheistBuddah]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

 

[Unkotare]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

You don't get it at all.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

You don't get it at all.

I feel somewhat sad for people like you.

 

[Unkotare]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

You don't get it at all.

I feel somewhat sad for people like you.

That also misses the point.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

You don't get it at all.

I feel somewhat sad for people like you.

That also misses the point.

That's nice.

 

[Unkotare]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

You don't get it at all.

I feel somewhat sad for people like you.

That also misses the point.

That's nice.

Not so much.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Um... I know 8 year olds definitely know about Jesus because I know Christians aren't at all above indoctrinating their kids as soon as possible. Need I remind you of Jesus Camp or Kidnapped for Christ?

you can remind us of that.....if you're intent on wasting our time.....the issue is whether Santa Claus represents the Christian or atheist idea of Christmas......the answer is obvious....

No it really isn't. Both Christians and atheists alike celebrate Christmas and many tell their children about Santa. In the grand scheme he is irrelevant to the meaning of the holiday. He certainly isn't some sort of atheist invention to replace Jesus.

are you blaming the Jews?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

 

[PratchettFan]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

You are doing to others what you complain others are doing to you.

I am doing no such thing. I do not complain about the criticism of my ideas in fact I welcome and cherish it. I welcome Christians to make the same criticizing statements about my views because that is a vital part of how a free society works. What I complain about is when my rights and the rights of other minorities are infringed upon by the Christian majority in the name of their specific values.

Yes, you are. You are taking an entire class of people and sticking them into a little box and slapping a label on it. You are acting in exactly the same manner as the people you are complaining about.

The fundamental difference is that I am not trying to get laws passed that limit their freedom of expression.

I have no idea what you personally might be doing, but to say Atheists have not tried to do this is flat wrong. In fact, most of the attempts to limit freedom of expression I can think of have come from either Atheists or the left.

We want an Atheist display next to your Christmas displays. We want a booth next to Santa to talk to all the kids that don't believe in Santa or Xmas. And we want to put up right next to the Prayer you have in our school a sign that says THERE IS NO GOD and a Website where students can go see that their parents and churches have quite possibly been feeding them a fairy tale for the last 3-18 years. Let them decide after seeing both sides of the argument. But instead it is you who wouldn't dare let us have a place in society because we would expose your lie.

So don't cry about us. We sit quietly and let your religious holidays go by and some of us even participate. I like Easter and Xmas for the family. I skip church. The people bore me. Should I find a new church? Why? Am I doing it because I believe in God or because I want to meet new friends and have fun?

For some they believe because they want to believe. They don't want to be the odd ball in the flock. They enjoy church and the people at church. Met their wives or husbands at church. I know there is a lot of good that comes out of this cult but a lot of bad comes too. Like Ghandi said. Christ sounded like a good man. It's Christians that he had a problem with. AGREED!

I thought Santa Clause WAS the atheists alternative to Christmas.....

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the Santa remark was joke.

Santa is like a training bra for future atheists.

It would appear not.

No? What are the central lesson's of Santa Claus?

1. People love a good bullshit story if it makes them feel good.
2. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Pretty much the atheist credo.

And yet most people who believed in Santa turn out to be believers in Jesus. So again, it would appear not.

odd.....I would have argued that most people who believe in Santa were under 8 and didn't have a clue yet about who Jesus is......

Yes. Which is why I used the phrase "turned out to be". Their belief in Santa and their subsequence non-belief did not make them Atheists.

so is this amazing statistic simply based on the fact that almost all children under the age of 8 believe in Santa Claus yet only 6% of adults are atheists and 75% are Christians?.....if so, I will concede that most who once believed in Santa Claus "turned out to be" Christians.....if you're implying anything more significant, I will simply relegate this to the "to be laughed at" file.....

Perhaps I should just assume you didn't bother to read the post I was responding to. In which case, go ahead and laugh.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Um the Bible. And pretty much every street preacher I've ever come in contact with or heard of. Might I ask you the same question? What basis do you make the assumption that he doesn't?

Can you point out where the Bible says that unbaptized babies go to hell?

Didn't think so, since that is exclusively a Catholic doctrine, and is not included in what most people think of when they say Bible. As for people who never get a chice going to hell, I can show you where the Bible actually contradicts that, and you cannot show me a single verse that supports it, even if you pick and choose from the Catholic Bible.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And knowing 16 computer languages is not an excuse for being an ass.

I don't need an excuse for being an ass.

 

[Youch]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Faith was born out of desire to understand. "Out of fear" may be the same thing. At the dawn of history, man asked, why does the sun rise and fall in the sky, what is lightning, what is fire, why does it snow, who are the boogie men over the mountain, etc.... Long before science and enlightenment, deity was invented to explain the theretofore unexplained. Not knowing any different, faith was born.

Religion came later by men who desired control.

Atheism came much, much later. Nothing wrong with atheism, in my opinion, up to the point they ridicule and demean, because they too often misunderstand or ignore the great values that have also been born from our history of faith.

Nope, that is all backwards!

Everyone is born an atheist. No one is born with the knowledge of any deity or religion.

Religion came next and invented deities. Since there was no evidence of the existence of these deities faith was invented as means of explaining away the lack of evidence.

Religion has been and still is both a positive and negative influence on society. Overall it is more positive than negative from an individual perspective.

That is not what I said, wrote or meant. I used the word "invented." Changes the whole context...

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Um... I know 8 year olds definitely know about Jesus because I know Christians aren't at all above indoctrinating their kids as soon as possible. Need I remind you of Jesus Camp or Kidnapped for Christ?

you can remind us of that.....if you're intent on wasting our time.....the issue is whether Santa Claus represents the Christian or atheist idea of Christmas......the answer is obvious....

No it really isn't. Both Christians and atheists alike celebrate Christmas and many tell their children about Santa. In the grand scheme he is irrelevant to the meaning of the holiday. He certainly isn't some sort of atheist invention to replace Jesus.

are you blaming the Jews?.....

Um..Wat?

 

[AtheistBuddah]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Everyone is born an atheist.

must be tough on maternity room nurses....all those tiny infants shouting "there is no god!" day in and day out.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Um... I know 8 year olds definitely know about Jesus because I know Christians aren't at all above indoctrinating their kids as soon as possible. Need I remind you of Jesus Camp or Kidnapped for Christ?

you can remind us of that.....if you're intent on wasting our time.....the issue is whether Santa Claus represents the Christian or atheist idea of Christmas......the answer is obvious....

No it really isn't. Both Christians and atheists alike celebrate Christmas and many tell their children about Santa. In the grand scheme he is irrelevant to the meaning of the holiday. He certainly isn't some sort of atheist invention to replace Jesus.

are you blaming the Jews?.....

Um..Wat?

I'm wondering, if not the atheists, who it is that you think DID set up Santa in competition with Jesus for Christmas day?.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Um... I know 8 year olds definitely know about Jesus because I know Christians aren't at all above indoctrinating their kids as soon as possible. Need I remind you of Jesus Camp or Kidnapped for Christ?

you can remind us of that.....if you're intent on wasting our time.....the issue is whether Santa Claus represents the Christian or atheist idea of Christmas......the answer is obvious....

No it really isn't. Both Christians and atheists alike celebrate Christmas and many tell their children about Santa. In the grand scheme he is irrelevant to the meaning of the holiday. He certainly isn't some sort of atheist invention to replace Jesus.

are you blaming the Jews?.....

Um..Wat?

I'm wondering, if not the atheists, who it is that you think DID set up Santa in competition with Jesus for Christmas day?.......

Santa existed in European culture, particularly German culture for a long time. Then capitalist forces took it and used it as a way to turn Christmas into a cash cow. So...I guess I blame Coca Cola and Maceys

 

[AtheistBuddah]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

Our opinions on this matter will likely never be the same. Can we just agree to disagree?

 

[AtheistBuddah]

So according to you, Unkotare, I'm not even allowed to have my own opinion if it differs from yours?