Faith is Born from Fear

[Quantum Windbag]

You've done nothing more than rote memorization of the genesis fable. You've never actually understood the contradictions of the fable.

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

What, exactly, is it you base that conclusion on? Is it your massive ignorance of the concept of free will? Or do you simply insist you are right because you are right?

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

That is the most amazing display of circular reasoning I have ever seen.

It is quite a dilemma, isn’t it? For the gawds, who, according to the bibles, hates knowledge so much they made it the one thing forbidden in Eden and thus commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

It is only a dilemma for those that think in circles, other people can easily see a way out of that trap. I wonder if you can learn to stop chasing your tail whenever you discuss things that are beyond your comprehension.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You really love being pointless. You addressed nothing of what I wrote.

You're just desperate for attention.

Seriously?

Tell me something, oh she who thinks she has all the answers, how does pointing out that Hell does not exist not address your claim that God did not point out that eating from the tree would send people to Hell?

 

[Hollie]

You've done nothing more than rote memorization of the genesis fable. You've never actually understood the contradictions of the fable.

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

What, exactly, is it you base that conclusion on? Is it your massive ignorance of the concept of free will? Or do you simply insist you are right because you are right?

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

That is the most amazing display of circular reasoning I have ever seen.

It is quite a dilemma, isn’t it? For the gawds, who, according to the bibles, hates knowledge so much they made it the one thing forbidden in Eden and thus commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

It is only a dilemma for those that think in circles, other people can easily see a way out of that trap. I wonder if you can learn to stop chasing your tail whenever you discuss things that are beyond your comprehension.

So, basically, you're just incensed that anyone would point out how arbitrary and capricious religious belief is.

 

[Hollie]

You really love being pointless. You addressed nothing of what I wrote.

You're just desperate for attention.

Seriously?

Tell me something, oh she who thinks she has all the answers, how does pointing out that Hell does not exist not address your claim that God did not point out that eating from the tree would send people to Hell?

Hey, it's your fable, rife with contradictions and absurdities. Deal with it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

The Bible says that no one is innocent except for Jesus.

In which case your bible is wrong. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. A newborn child is innocent until it is capable of knowing right from wrong. So your bible is demanding you to believe something that is patently absurd and misplaces the onus onto proving innocence rather than guilt. That is assbackwards in my opinion.

 

[Derideo_Te]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

Yours is the simpleton's version.

and yet oddly you STILL don't understand it....

You simply accepted the dogma you were given and never made any attempt to resolve the contradictions. In the Adam & Eve fable, the gawds set up a test that was impossible for them to pass, (knowing they would fail), purposely tempted them, and when they did fail, the curse was upon all subsequent humanity.

you didn't "fail"......you've intentionally made the choice you made.....

The curse of all humanity for the actions of the "first" man and woman to use their free will to gain knowledge-- The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Ever notice that in the Genesis story The gawds don't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of massive -- in fact -- eternal proportions (we don't get the "Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a Hell, okay?", information until way too late)? Ever notice that, bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes a "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

...you say that God set you up to fail as if you had no say in the matter.....however billions of us have made the opposite choice than you have......we weren't set up to fail......you've simple chosen to fail....

You've done nothing more than rote memorization of the genesis fable. You've never actually understood the contradictions of the fable.

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

It is quite a dilemma, isn’t it? For the gawds, who, according to the bibles, hates knowledge so much they made it the one thing forbidden in Eden and thus commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

Threatening mankind with death unless it obeys God makes it a fear based religion right there in Genesis.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

So according to you, Unkotare, I'm not even allowed to have my own opinion if it differs from yours?

You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.

They aren't my facts. They're just the facts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So, basically, you're just incensed that anyone would point out how arbitrary and capricious religious belief is.

Basically, you are an idiot.

I have no problem with people that can point out actual flaws in my beliefs, your problem is that the flaws you see exist only because you want them to exist.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hey, it's your fable, rife with contradictions and absurdities. Deal with it.

You are the one that insist Hell exist in my fable, not me.

In other words, I am not responsible for your misunderstanding of my beliefs, especially when you keep insisting on not listening to what I say.

 

[sealybobo]

Yours is the simpleton's version. You simply accepted the dogma you were given and never made any attempt to resolve the contradictions. In the Adam & Eve fable, the gawds set up a test that was impossible for them to pass, (knowing they would fail), purposely tempted them, and when they did fail, the curse was upon all subsequent humanity.

Simply remember the foundations of Genesis--

The curse of all humanity for the actions of the "first" man and woman to use their free will to gain knowledge-- The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Ever notice that in the Genesis story The gawds don't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of massive -- in fact -- eternal proportions (we don't get the "Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a Hell, okay?", information until way too late)? Ever notice that, bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes a "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

I really love pointing out the massive ignorance of idiots that think they understand something they hold nothing but contempt for.

There is no Hell as you think does not exist. That should help you get over your insistence that believers are afraid of something, which totally confuses every thinking person who understands that faith is something that many believers, including those that do not believe in eternal punishments of some type, have.

By the way, if you are a parent perhaps you can explain, in detail, how you raise your children. When you tell them not to do something do you always sit down and tell them all the potential consequences of their disobedience, including the ones you are unaware of because of your limited ability to see the future, or do you just expect them to do what you tell them because you know enough to know what they should not do?

No, we take the easy way out. Instead of teaching them the real reasons to do the right thing, we make up an imaginary super parent and a hell where it sends bad boys and girls.

Similar to how we use Santa.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Threatening mankind with death unless it obeys God makes it a fear based religion right there in Genesis.

I must have missed that verse, can you tell me where it is?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They aren't my facts. They're just the facts.

Sorry,, but when you equate fundamentalist Christians and Young Earth Creationist, you are making up your own facts.

 

[sealybobo]

So, basically, you're just incensed that anyone would point out how arbitrary and capricious religious belief is.

Basically, you are an idiot.

I have no problem with people that can point out actual flaws in my beliefs, your problem is that the flaws you see exist only because you want them to exist.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note: This is not the same as being close-minded.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, we take the easy way out. Instead of teaching them the real reasons to do the right thing, we make up an imaginary super parent and a hell where it sends bad boys and girls.

Similar to how we use Santa.

You use Santa to scare your kids?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note: This is not the same as being close-minded.

The exact same thing can be said about evolution, which is why we rely on the entire body of evidence to support the theory instead of trying to find the single piece of evidence to prove that it is true.

Any other ridiculous statements to show you don't understand anything?

 

[sealybobo]

No, we take the easy way out. Instead of teaching them the real reasons to do the right thing, we make up an imaginary super parent and a hell where it sends bad boys and girls.

Similar to how we use Santa.

You use Santa to scare your kids?

You won't get a gift if you are naughty.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You won't get a gift if you are naughty.

I get gifts all the time, even when I am naughty.

 

[sealybobo]

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note: This is not the same as being close-minded.

The exact same thing can be said about evolution, which is why we rely on the entire body of evidence to support the theory instead of trying to find the single piece of evidence to prove that it is true.

Any other ridiculous statements to show you don't understand anything?

Give us some examples of the fatal flaws that come with the argument for evolution.

When I add up all the evidence for god, I realize there probably is no god. At least not the god theists say they talk to and worship.

 

[Hollie]

Hey, it's your fable, rife with contradictions and absurdities. Deal with it.

You are the one that insist Hell exist in my fable, not me.

In other words, I am not responsible for your misunderstanding of my beliefs, especially when you keep insisting on not listening to what I say.

Your complaints regarding interpretations of religious dogma appears to be with one of more of the various subdivisions of Christianity.

 

[Hollie]

So, basically, you're just incensed that anyone would point out how arbitrary and capricious religious belief is.

Basically, you are an idiot.

I have no problem with people that can point out actual flaws in my beliefs, your problem is that the flaws you see exist only because you want them to exist.

And as usual, you are never able to actually refute the flaws, errors and contradictions that exist in your dogma. You merely recoil in shocked surprise when they're pointed out.