Evolution lies

[BreezeWood]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

.
there are no records for the flood establishing the religion of antiquity there were no survivors to pass down the lore. than the lineage not found guilty - of evil.

unless you are claiming that lineage was everywhere to be found - and would agree to establishing the correct accounting of the episode that presently does not exist. for your records to be correct if for that flood.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

.
do you ever read posts you reply to.

there were no survivors, people - was the point of the episode but those that adhered to the religion of antiquity - obviously not yours.

that would be all beings, the religion of antiquity not just "2 of each kind" on a boat.

Is your handlename a reference to Brezilwood? And Jean Cousin?

Is your handlename a reference to Brezilwood? And Jean Cousin?

.
I looked them up too bad but no not related to the artist or brazilian tree -

in an earlier life as a carpenter in florida I noticed there was seldom a breeze in august ... name of my building / design company.

 

[ding]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

.
there are no records for the flood establishing the religion of antiquity there were no survivors to pass down the lore. than the lineage not found guilty - of evil.

unless you are claiming that lineage was everywhere to be found - and would agree to establishing the correct accounting of the episode that presently does not exist. for your records to be correct if for that flood.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

.
do you ever read posts you reply to.

there were no survivors, people - was the point of the episode but those that adhered to the religion of antiquity - obviously not yours.

that would be all beings, the religion of antiquity not just "2 of each kind" on a boat.

It was an allegorical account of an historical event. That was the point of the account.

The secondary point is that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

 

[Bruce Daniels]

The Bible is the only trusted source of information that there is. That is the reason why God had certain people to document everything in the past. Like the word Jasher. It means the Righteous. So God has appointed righteous people to record certain events during their life time and had them to preserve these records. Because he knew that the devil will try to change history.

"The Bible is the only trusted source of information that there is." Thanks for letting me know just where you stand. You're an idiot.

I think I understand what Aletheia4u meant, but I also understand why you reacted that way. The Bible is the only infallible source of information but there are many relatively, albeit fallible, sources of information.

One example is the Biblical account of the flood. There are hundreds of flood legends in the world, but only the Biblical account has no mythical elements in it and can be harmonized with scientific evidence.

Our literature is also fallible. Like in the body of scientific literature, our older literature is out of date. This is because of good research coupled with the humility to change one's beliefs when the evidence from such research demands it.

So, for example, our website must have some errors - but can you find any errors there?

www.jw.org

What do you mean, "only the Biblical account has no mythical elements in it"? Doesn't the Bible account of the Flood prominently feature God? What the hell is God if not a mythical element?

 

[Bruce Daniels]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

What if Elephants are the modern day Woolly Mammoth that migrated to warmer areas when the Ice Age began, unable to survive in the colder regions without much vegetation, and Humans hunted those that remained. A Mammoth would require a large amount of caloric energy to survive, could have survived in the less extreme temperatures in a deciduous subtropical environment.

Warmer climate, more water vapor in the air, more precipitation. Also, there are things known as Storegga Slides, could have been glacier and mountain melt dislodged by an earthquake or a volcanic eruption, which would trigger massive amount of steam and ice melt under a glacier that would build up as reservoirs.

Gentle - I see you are a good thinker and researcher. I love doing research myself. So, though we may (at least at first) reach different conclusions, I think reasonable discussion between us will be of benefit to both of us. I know for me that I have learned from you already - I had never heard of Storegga Slides:

Storegga slides | Submarine Landslides, Norwegian Sea

Storegga slides, series of submarine landslides in the Norwegian Sea that occurred between approximately 8,400 and 2,200 years ago. The combined activities of these landslides produced a scar on the seafloor that begins some 100 km (60 miles) off Norway’s More Coast on the edge of Europe’s

www.britannica.com

The Britannica article presents variant theories and dates - such as between 50,000 and 6,000 years ago (no dating method is stated). Maybe these were during the Noachian flood which would certainly have caused earthquakes and tsunamis in the process summarized here:

Psalms 104:5-9
He has established the earth on its foundations;+
It will not be moved from its place* forever and ever.+
6 You covered it with deep waters as with a garment.+
The waters stood above the mountains.
7 At your rebuke they fled;+
At the sound of your thunder they ran away in panic
8 —Mountains ascended+ and valleys descended—
To the place you established for them.
9 You set a boundary that they should not pass,+
That they should never again cover the earth.

The Biblical account thus describes earth in upheaval with mountains ascending and ocean trenches descending violently, likely mostly in one year. Like the actual observations reported by Britannica, the Scriptures can also be interpreted in different ways - but normally only one way is truly accurate.

There are other observations that point to a global flood, not just a local flood. Three for starters>:

1. Continental Shelves. A careful observation of continental shelves seem to show the old coastlines of continents - many rivers extend as underwater riverbeds as an example. This is true globally.

2. The universal flood legends I already posted one list of from our Bible dictionary.

3. The arctic permafrost. Millions of mammoths and other animals are found frozen in the arctic permafrost. Some are whole and with almost no decay indicating quick freezing in about 30 minutes which for such a massive animal would mean a wind-chill of c. -150 degrees F - colder than anywhere on earth now. This permafrost was permanent since that catastrophe until the present global warming.

Note: The Genesis account of the flood shows it began about October 31 (Halloween not likely by coincidence) and lasted 40 days until about December 10th. The latter date is close to the Northern Hemisphere winter solstice. Thus we would expect the frozen remains to be only in the Northern hemisphere polar to northern temperate areas. And, indeed, there is no such massive permafrost containing millions of animals in the southern hemisphere.

Can you provide the supportable evidence where any of the Bibles provides the precise date delineating the beginning or ending of the flood? I'm surprised that no one in Noah's immediate family thought to write down the date. What year did the global flood occur? We're told by other religious supernaturalists that the flood happened just a few thousand years ago yet neither the Chinese nor the Maya provide any indication of that event.

That would be valuable to know as there is no evidence for a global flood a few thousand years ago.

Good morning Hollie - how are you?

I already posted evidence - can you respond to what I posted? Meanwhile - how long ago do you think the millions of mammoths and other animals found in the arctic permafrost were quick-frozen and the climate change was permanent until the current global warming?

On the exact date - what is the oldest origin of the date for Halloween? Would you believe it is linked to the flood legends I posted a list of?

Good, morning. Your recent post was the first I saw citing a precise date for the beginning and end of a claimed global flood. Can you identify those dates appearing in any of the Bibles? As Noah didn't write down the date of the flood, (a rather glaring oops in terms of the god's ("oh, I changed my mind"), I was curious where those dates came from.

There are reliable dates that identify the existence of Mammoth as recently as 10,000 years ago.

39000 Years Old Frozen Woolly Mammoth found in Siberia, goes on display in Tokyo | ARCHAEOLOGY WORLD

After 39,000 years, a baby wooly mammoth is making her public debut. The prehistoric creature, nicknamed Yuka, is being put on public display in Japan, after being shipped from her home in Siberia, Russia.

archaeology-world.com

That would tend to clash with the notion of a global flood a few thousand years ago and a 6,000 year old planet. Are the chemical evilutionist atheists committing another lie?

Actually, there is some evidence that a remnant isolated population of mammoths survived until about 5,600 years ago. Last mammoths 'died of thirst'

 

[Bruce Daniels]

The Bible is the only trusted source of information that there is. That is the reason why God had certain people to document everything in the past. Like the word Jasher. It means the Righteous. So God has appointed righteous people to record certain events during their life time and had them to preserve these records. Because he knew that the devil will try to change history.

"The Bible is the only trusted source of information that there is." Thanks for letting me know just where you stand. You're an idiot.

I think I understand what Aletheia4u meant, but I also understand why you reacted that way. The Bible is the only infallible source of information but there are many relatively, albeit fallible, sources of information.

One example is the Biblical account of the flood. There are hundreds of flood legends in the world, but only the Biblical account has no mythical elements in it and can be harmonized with scientific evidence.

Our literature is also fallible. Like in the body of scientific literature, our older literature is out of date. This is because of good research coupled with the humility to change one's beliefs when the evidence from such research demands it.

So, for example, our website must have some errors - but can you find any errors there?

www.jw.org

Do you seriously expect me to waste my time looking for errors on your fucking website, when you'll simply dismiss anything I might say anyway?

 

[Bruce Daniels]

You all - I already posted that evolutionists fail to mention that water destroys chemical reaction pathways to amino acids. This is linked to another deception, namely the failure to note that the primary chemical reaction product in the famous Miller-Urey experiment was formic acid, as well as the fact that most of the amino acids Miller synthesized are not used in proteins, and that only Alanine and Glycine were synthesized in a significant product proportion.

Specifically, these hydrolysis (reactions with water) reactions include:

1. HCN to Cyanogen (C2N2) + H2O yields cyanoformamide (C2H2N2O) + H2O yields ethanediamide (C2H4N2O2)

2. HCN to dicyanamide (C2N3) + H2O yields cyanourea (C2H3N3O) + H2O yields Biuret (C2H5N3O2 )

3. HCN to Cyanamide (CH2N2) + H2O yields Urea (CO(NH2)2 = CH4N2O = NH2CONH2)

4. HCN to Cyanamide (CH2N2) + H2O yields carbodiimide (RN=C=NR.) + H2O yields Urea

[Note: The carbodiimide dicyclohexylcarbodiimide (C13H22N2 ) is used in peptide synthesis,"]

5. HCN + H2O yields formamide (CH3NO) + H2O yields formic acid (HCOOH = CH₂O₂)

6. HCN + H2O yields formamidine (CH4N2 ) + H2O yields formic acid (HCOOH = CH2O2)

7. HCN to Cyanoacetylene (C3HN) + H2O yields Cyanoacetaldehide (C3H3NO).

Do any of you know of any chemical evolutionists who reveal any of these 7 chemical reactions?

I don't know anyone who knows anything about any of that. But I also think that a lot can happen over millions of years. Maybe things that you don't know anything about.

 

[Bruce Daniels]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

What if Elephants are the modern day Woolly Mammoth that migrated to warmer areas when the Ice Age began, unable to survive in the colder regions without much vegetation, and Humans hunted those that remained. A Mammoth would require a large amount of caloric energy to survive, could have survived in the less extreme temperatures in a deciduous subtropical environment.

Warmer climate, more water vapor in the air, more precipitation. Also, there are things known as Storegga Slides, could have been glacier and mountain melt dislodged by an earthquake or a volcanic eruption, which would trigger massive amount of steam and ice melt under a glacier that would build up as reservoirs.

Gentle - I see you are a good thinker and researcher. I love doing research myself. So, though we may (at least at first) reach different conclusions, I think reasonable discussion between us will be of benefit to both of us. I know for me that I have learned from you already - I had never heard of Storegga Slides:

Storegga slides | Submarine Landslides, Norwegian Sea

Storegga slides, series of submarine landslides in the Norwegian Sea that occurred between approximately 8,400 and 2,200 years ago. The combined activities of these landslides produced a scar on the seafloor that begins some 100 km (60 miles) off Norway’s More Coast on the edge of Europe’s

www.britannica.com

The Britannica article presents variant theories and dates - such as between 50,000 and 6,000 years ago (no dating method is stated). Maybe these were during the Noachian flood which would certainly have caused earthquakes and tsunamis in the process summarized here:

Psalms 104:5-9
He has established the earth on its foundations;+
It will not be moved from its place* forever and ever.+
6 You covered it with deep waters as with a garment.+
The waters stood above the mountains.
7 At your rebuke they fled;+
At the sound of your thunder they ran away in panic
8 —Mountains ascended+ and valleys descended—
To the place you established for them.
9 You set a boundary that they should not pass,+
That they should never again cover the earth.

The Biblical account thus describes earth in upheaval with mountains ascending and ocean trenches descending violently, likely mostly in one year. Like the actual observations reported by Britannica, the Scriptures can also be interpreted in different ways - but normally only one way is truly accurate.

There are other observations that point to a global flood, not just a local flood. Three for starters>:

1. Continental Shelves. A careful observation of continental shelves seem to show the old coastlines of continents - many rivers extend as underwater riverbeds as an example. This is true globally.

2. The universal flood legends I already posted one list of from our Bible dictionary.

3. The arctic permafrost. Millions of mammoths and other animals are found frozen in the arctic permafrost. Some are whole and with almost no decay indicating quick freezing in about 30 minutes which for such a massive animal would mean a wind-chill of c. -150 degrees F - colder than anywhere on earth now. This permafrost was permanent since that catastrophe until the present global warming.

Note: The Genesis account of the flood shows it began about October 31 (Halloween not likely by coincidence) and lasted 40 days until about December 10th. The latter date is close to the Northern Hemisphere winter solstice. Thus we would expect the frozen remains to be only in the Northern hemisphere polar to northern temperate areas. And, indeed, there is no such massive permafrost containing millions of animals in the southern hemisphere.

Can you provide the supportable evidence where any of the Bibles provides the precise date delineating the beginning or ending of the flood? I'm surprised that no one in Noah's immediate family thought to write down the date. What year did the global flood occur? We're told by other religious supernaturalists that the flood happened just a few thousand years ago yet neither the Chinese nor the Maya provide any indication of that event.

That would be valuable to know as there is no evidence for a global flood a few thousand years ago.

Good morning Hollie - how are you?

I already posted evidence - can you respond to what I posted? Meanwhile - how long ago do you think the millions of mammoths and other animals found in the arctic permafrost were quick-frozen and the climate change was permanent until the current global warming?

On the exact date - what is the oldest origin of the date for Halloween? Would you believe it is linked to the flood legends I posted a list of?

Good, morning. Your recent post was the first I saw citing a precise date for the beginning and end of a claimed global flood. Can you identify those dates appearing in any of the Bibles? As Noah didn't write down the date of the flood, (a rather glaring oops in terms of the god's ("oh, I changed my mind"), I was curious where those dates came from.

There are reliable dates that identify the existence of Mammoth as recently as 10,000 years ago.

39000 Years Old Frozen Woolly Mammoth found in Siberia, goes on display in Tokyo | ARCHAEOLOGY WORLD

After 39,000 years, a baby wooly mammoth is making her public debut. The prehistoric creature, nicknamed Yuka, is being put on public display in Japan, after being shipped from her home in Siberia, Russia.

archaeology-world.com

That would tend to clash with the notion of a global flood a few thousand years ago and a 6,000 year old planet. Are the chemical evilutionist atheists committing another lie?

Is it really necessary to call me an "evilutionist atheist"? I prefer the term "Realist." If you'll call me a Realist, I won't call you a Moron.

 

[ding]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

What if Elephants are the modern day Woolly Mammoth that migrated to warmer areas when the Ice Age began, unable to survive in the colder regions without much vegetation, and Humans hunted those that remained. A Mammoth would require a large amount of caloric energy to survive, could have survived in the less extreme temperatures in a deciduous subtropical environment.

Warmer climate, more water vapor in the air, more precipitation. Also, there are things known as Storegga Slides, could have been glacier and mountain melt dislodged by an earthquake or a volcanic eruption, which would trigger massive amount of steam and ice melt under a glacier that would build up as reservoirs.

Gentle - I see you are a good thinker and researcher. I love doing research myself. So, though we may (at least at first) reach different conclusions, I think reasonable discussion between us will be of benefit to both of us. I know for me that I have learned from you already - I had never heard of Storegga Slides:

Storegga slides | Submarine Landslides, Norwegian Sea

Storegga slides, series of submarine landslides in the Norwegian Sea that occurred between approximately 8,400 and 2,200 years ago. The combined activities of these landslides produced a scar on the seafloor that begins some 100 km (60 miles) off Norway’s More Coast on the edge of Europe’s

www.britannica.com

The Britannica article presents variant theories and dates - such as between 50,000 and 6,000 years ago (no dating method is stated). Maybe these were during the Noachian flood which would certainly have caused earthquakes and tsunamis in the process summarized here:

Psalms 104:5-9
He has established the earth on its foundations;+
It will not be moved from its place* forever and ever.+
6 You covered it with deep waters as with a garment.+
The waters stood above the mountains.
7 At your rebuke they fled;+
At the sound of your thunder they ran away in panic
8 —Mountains ascended+ and valleys descended—
To the place you established for them.
9 You set a boundary that they should not pass,+
That they should never again cover the earth.

The Biblical account thus describes earth in upheaval with mountains ascending and ocean trenches descending violently, likely mostly in one year. Like the actual observations reported by Britannica, the Scriptures can also be interpreted in different ways - but normally only one way is truly accurate.

There are other observations that point to a global flood, not just a local flood. Three for starters>:

1. Continental Shelves. A careful observation of continental shelves seem to show the old coastlines of continents - many rivers extend as underwater riverbeds as an example. This is true globally.

2. The universal flood legends I already posted one list of from our Bible dictionary.

3. The arctic permafrost. Millions of mammoths and other animals are found frozen in the arctic permafrost. Some are whole and with almost no decay indicating quick freezing in about 30 minutes which for such a massive animal would mean a wind-chill of c. -150 degrees F - colder than anywhere on earth now. This permafrost was permanent since that catastrophe until the present global warming.

Note: The Genesis account of the flood shows it began about October 31 (Halloween not likely by coincidence) and lasted 40 days until about December 10th. The latter date is close to the Northern Hemisphere winter solstice. Thus we would expect the frozen remains to be only in the Northern hemisphere polar to northern temperate areas. And, indeed, there is no such massive permafrost containing millions of animals in the southern hemisphere.

Can you provide the supportable evidence where any of the Bibles provides the precise date delineating the beginning or ending of the flood? I'm surprised that no one in Noah's immediate family thought to write down the date. What year did the global flood occur? We're told by other religious supernaturalists that the flood happened just a few thousand years ago yet neither the Chinese nor the Maya provide any indication of that event.

That would be valuable to know as there is no evidence for a global flood a few thousand years ago.

Good morning Hollie - how are you?

I already posted evidence - can you respond to what I posted? Meanwhile - how long ago do you think the millions of mammoths and other animals found in the arctic permafrost were quick-frozen and the climate change was permanent until the current global warming?

On the exact date - what is the oldest origin of the date for Halloween? Would you believe it is linked to the flood legends I posted a list of?

Good, morning. Your recent post was the first I saw citing a precise date for the beginning and end of a claimed global flood. Can you identify those dates appearing in any of the Bibles? As Noah didn't write down the date of the flood, (a rather glaring oops in terms of the god's ("oh, I changed my mind"), I was curious where those dates came from.

There are reliable dates that identify the existence of Mammoth as recently as 10,000 years ago.

39000 Years Old Frozen Woolly Mammoth found in Siberia, goes on display in Tokyo | ARCHAEOLOGY WORLD

After 39,000 years, a baby wooly mammoth is making her public debut. The prehistoric creature, nicknamed Yuka, is being put on public display in Japan, after being shipped from her home in Siberia, Russia.

archaeology-world.com

That would tend to clash with the notion of a global flood a few thousand years ago and a 6,000 year old planet. Are the chemical evilutionist atheists committing another lie?

Is it really necessary to call me an "evilutionist atheist"? I prefer the term "Realist." If you'll call me a Realist, I won't call you a Moron.

Relax, Bruce. She’s on your side.

 

[Hollie]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

What if Elephants are the modern day Woolly Mammoth that migrated to warmer areas when the Ice Age began, unable to survive in the colder regions without much vegetation, and Humans hunted those that remained. A Mammoth would require a large amount of caloric energy to survive, could have survived in the less extreme temperatures in a deciduous subtropical environment.

Warmer climate, more water vapor in the air, more precipitation. Also, there are things known as Storegga Slides, could have been glacier and mountain melt dislodged by an earthquake or a volcanic eruption, which would trigger massive amount of steam and ice melt under a glacier that would build up as reservoirs.

Gentle - I see you are a good thinker and researcher. I love doing research myself. So, though we may (at least at first) reach different conclusions, I think reasonable discussion between us will be of benefit to both of us. I know for me that I have learned from you already - I had never heard of Storegga Slides:

Storegga slides | Submarine Landslides, Norwegian Sea

Storegga slides, series of submarine landslides in the Norwegian Sea that occurred between approximately 8,400 and 2,200 years ago. The combined activities of these landslides produced a scar on the seafloor that begins some 100 km (60 miles) off Norway’s More Coast on the edge of Europe’s

www.britannica.com

The Britannica article presents variant theories and dates - such as between 50,000 and 6,000 years ago (no dating method is stated). Maybe these were during the Noachian flood which would certainly have caused earthquakes and tsunamis in the process summarized here:

Psalms 104:5-9
He has established the earth on its foundations;+
It will not be moved from its place* forever and ever.+
6 You covered it with deep waters as with a garment.+
The waters stood above the mountains.
7 At your rebuke they fled;+
At the sound of your thunder they ran away in panic
8 —Mountains ascended+ and valleys descended—
To the place you established for them.
9 You set a boundary that they should not pass,+
That they should never again cover the earth.

The Biblical account thus describes earth in upheaval with mountains ascending and ocean trenches descending violently, likely mostly in one year. Like the actual observations reported by Britannica, the Scriptures can also be interpreted in different ways - but normally only one way is truly accurate.

There are other observations that point to a global flood, not just a local flood. Three for starters>:

1. Continental Shelves. A careful observation of continental shelves seem to show the old coastlines of continents - many rivers extend as underwater riverbeds as an example. This is true globally.

2. The universal flood legends I already posted one list of from our Bible dictionary.

3. The arctic permafrost. Millions of mammoths and other animals are found frozen in the arctic permafrost. Some are whole and with almost no decay indicating quick freezing in about 30 minutes which for such a massive animal would mean a wind-chill of c. -150 degrees F - colder than anywhere on earth now. This permafrost was permanent since that catastrophe until the present global warming.

Note: The Genesis account of the flood shows it began about October 31 (Halloween not likely by coincidence) and lasted 40 days until about December 10th. The latter date is close to the Northern Hemisphere winter solstice. Thus we would expect the frozen remains to be only in the Northern hemisphere polar to northern temperate areas. And, indeed, there is no such massive permafrost containing millions of animals in the southern hemisphere.

Can you provide the supportable evidence where any of the Bibles provides the precise date delineating the beginning or ending of the flood? I'm surprised that no one in Noah's immediate family thought to write down the date. What year did the global flood occur? We're told by other religious supernaturalists that the flood happened just a few thousand years ago yet neither the Chinese nor the Maya provide any indication of that event.

That would be valuable to know as there is no evidence for a global flood a few thousand years ago.

Good morning Hollie - how are you?

I already posted evidence - can you respond to what I posted? Meanwhile - how long ago do you think the millions of mammoths and other animals found in the arctic permafrost were quick-frozen and the climate change was permanent until the current global warming?

On the exact date - what is the oldest origin of the date for Halloween? Would you believe it is linked to the flood legends I posted a list of?

Good, morning. Your recent post was the first I saw citing a precise date for the beginning and end of a claimed global flood. Can you identify those dates appearing in any of the Bibles? As Noah didn't write down the date of the flood, (a rather glaring oops in terms of the god's ("oh, I changed my mind"), I was curious where those dates came from.

There are reliable dates that identify the existence of Mammoth as recently as 10,000 years ago.

39000 Years Old Frozen Woolly Mammoth found in Siberia, goes on display in Tokyo | ARCHAEOLOGY WORLD

After 39,000 years, a baby wooly mammoth is making her public debut. The prehistoric creature, nicknamed Yuka, is being put on public display in Japan, after being shipped from her home in Siberia, Russia.

archaeology-world.com

That would tend to clash with the notion of a global flood a few thousand years ago and a 6,000 year old planet. Are the chemical evilutionist atheists committing another lie?

Is it really necessary to call me an "evilutionist atheist"? I prefer the term "Realist." If you'll call me a Realist, I won't call you a Moron.

I think you missed the intent of my post. Ii was supporting your position on the subject of the Mammoth.

 

[BreezeWood]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

.
there are no records for the flood establishing the religion of antiquity there were no survivors to pass down the lore. than the lineage not found guilty - of evil.

unless you are claiming that lineage was everywhere to be found - and would agree to establishing the correct accounting of the episode that presently does not exist. for your records to be correct if for that flood.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

.
do you ever read posts you reply to.

there were no survivors, people - was the point of the episode but those that adhered to the religion of antiquity - obviously not yours.

that would be all beings, the religion of antiquity not just "2 of each kind" on a boat.

It was an allegorical account of an historical event. That was the point of the account.

The secondary point is that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

do you ever read posts you reply to.

there were no survivors, people - was the point of the episode but those that adhered to the religion of antiquity - obviously not yours.

that would be all beings, the religion of antiquity not just "2 of each kind" on a boat.

It was an allegorical account of an historical event. That was the point of the account.

The secondary point is that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

.

"It was an allegorical account of an historical event".

that makes less sense than your first response - certainly your account is made up we can agree on that.

- you give yourself away - "successful behaviors naturally lead to success" - romeo and juliet certainly would think otherwise ....

Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;
.
The which if you with patient ears attend,
what here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.
.
disinformation for the destruction of wildlife will never settle in the minds of the religious.

 

[ding]

Well, considering Humankind is a part of Universal Evolution, and Humans are lying, I suppose in a way the title of this thread could be interpreted in that way, that Humans. But there are plenty of ancient scriptures, including the Book of Genesis that discuss evolution. One great text on this topic, besides Hesiod's Works and Days, and Ovid's Metamorphosis, is the Corpus Hermeticum, Chapter X specifically.

But, I have an evolutionary traits, besides hair and eye color; where I can manipulate and generate magnetic fields to vibrate water, and atoms, telekenesis and utilize telepathy.

To clarify - Genesis teaches micro-evolution not macro-evolution.

Speciation within a Biblical kind help us understand how all kinds of land animals survived the Noachian flood on Noah's ark. Commenting on post flood speciation of the kinds of animals on the ark, our Bible dictionary notes:

Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list"

Bottom line, we believe the ball park estimate of 150-600 kinds of animals on Noah's ark have evolved by micro-evolution into as many as 1 million species. For example, there are many cat species - but likely only 1 kind. Probably only 2 cats on Noah's ark.

On your off topic tangent - if you have a fever and wear a hat you will increase the vibration of atoms in that hat - its called heat.

Here's the thing though. Noah's family was probably just in an area, such as the Persian Gulf or Red Sea that was previously not water as the Glaciers began to melt at the end of the last Ice Age. The high chance that species and people survived the Glacial melt is how so many animals survived the flooding waters from the ice melting. Stories such as the Emperor Yao and the Walum Olum of the Delaware show that many survived the floods, but that the floods lasted for a couple generations; and the Hindu Indian legend matches the Algonquin legend by the Indian scripture mentioning the World upon Turtle's Back that saved people during the flood, and the Algonquin name for the North Atlantic Island being called Turtle Island or Hahnunah.

Places such as Doggerland, are other pieces of evidence that those lands may have flooded quickly by the number of land animal fossils found there, and Human remains have been found there also.

I would have to agree that Noah's family was just in an area!

It makes sense that the elephant kind survived the flood while the mammoths went extinct since Mammoths did not live in that area so elephants but not mammoths were on the ark.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

Flood of Noah’s Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One of the many in the chart:

Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Bolivia is not a coastal country btw.

Flood legends are not just from one area though - see the charts here:

.
there are no records for the flood establishing the religion of antiquity there were no survivors to pass down the lore. than the lineage not found guilty - of evil.

unless you are claiming that lineage was everywhere to be found - and would agree to establishing the correct accounting of the episode that presently does not exist. for your records to be correct if for that flood.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

Horseshit. The surface of the earth was not covered in water. All life was not extinguished.

.
do you ever read posts you reply to.

there were no survivors, people - was the point of the episode but those that adhered to the religion of antiquity - obviously not yours.

that would be all beings, the religion of antiquity not just "2 of each kind" on a boat.

It was an allegorical account of an historical event. That was the point of the account.

The secondary point is that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

do you ever read posts you reply to.

there were no survivors, people - was the point of the episode but those that adhered to the religion of antiquity - obviously not yours.

that would be all beings, the religion of antiquity not just "2 of each kind" on a boat.

It was an allegorical account of an historical event. That was the point of the account.

The secondary point is that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

.

"It was an allegorical account of an historical event".

that makes less sense than your first response - certainly your account is made up we can agree on that.

you give yourself away - "successful behaviors naturally lead to success" - romeo and juliet certainly would think otherwise ....

Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;
.
.
The which if you with patient ears attend,
what here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.
.
disinformation for the destruction of wildlife will never settle in the minds of the religious.

Most of your posts don't make sense. Which is intentional I think to disguise your agenda.

Actually, it isn't made up. It is an allegorical account of an actual historical event. Every major ancient culture has an account of a great flood. We even have a scientific explanation for it. An asteroid strike in Greenland ~12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age vaporizing 1500 gigatons of ice creating a world wide climate disruption which led to massive rainstorms and flooding event around the globe.

As for successful behaviors naturally leading to success and failed behaviors naturally leading to failure only you would argue against this self evident truth.

 

[ding]

 

[Missourian]

My problem with evolution is randomness. Give a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters...you'll never get a single stanza of Romeo and Juliet...yet we're to believe that all these cells and proteins and DNA and RNA and mitochondria all wrote themselves randomly. That the cones and rods in your eyes learned to transmit images to a brain that built itself...randomly.

I just don't buy it.

There is no watch without a watchmaker.

 

[BreezeWood]

My problem with evolution is randomness. Give a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters...you'll never get a single stanza of Romeo and Juliet...yet we're to believe that all these cells and proteins and DNA and RNA and mitochondria all wrote themselves randomly. That the cones and rods in your eyes learned to transmit images to a brain that built itself...randomly.

I just don't buy it.

There is no watch without a watchmaker.

My problem with evolution is randomness. Give a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters...you'll never get a single stanza of Romeo and Juliet...

.
another nonsensical response ... what has your statement have to do with evolution. there is nothing random with physiology's spiritual content.

except maybe yours. and indeed most likely is your problem.

 

[ding]

My problem with evolution is randomness. Give a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters...you'll never get a single stanza of Romeo and Juliet...yet we're to believe that all these cells and proteins and DNA and RNA and mitochondria all wrote themselves randomly. That the cones and rods in your eyes learned to transmit images to a brain that built itself...randomly.

I just don't buy it.

There is no watch without a watchmaker.

My problem with evolution is randomness. Give a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters...you'll never get a single stanza of Romeo and Juliet...

.
another nonsensical response ... what has your statement have to do with evolution. there is nothing random with physiology's spiritual content.

except maybe yours. and indeed most likely is your problem.

His comment was not nonsensical. His comment was specifically addressing abiogenesis or life arising from inanimate matter through a random process.

So not only does abiogenesis require long chains of inorganic molecules that mimic amino acids but they must fold themselves in precisely the right sequence too. That is the randomness he is talking about.

So his statement is a fair comment by any objective measure and far from nonsensical.

By contrast your statement about physiology's spiritual content is nonsensical given that you seem to be arguing against abiogenesis and are arguing his response is nonsensical.

You are such a fake it isn't even funny.

 

[Newtonian]

My problem with evolution is randomness. Give a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters...you'll never get a single stanza of Romeo and Juliet...yet we're to believe that all these cells and proteins and DNA and RNA and mitochondria all wrote themselves randomly. That the cones and rods in your eyes learned to transmit images to a brain that built itself...randomly.

I just don't buy it.

There is no watch without a watchmaker.

Logical deduction. Informational molecules require input of information. For example, statistical vs. informational proteins.

Also, selection is required for the 20 amino acids in proteins. Synthesis experiments (e.g. by Miller) show most of the amino acids produced are not used in proteins.

I also posted on another thread this list of amino acids (mostly non-proteinous) produced in the Miller-Urey experiment according to their relative proportions:

Glycine - C₂H₅NO₂ - proportion: 440
Alanine - C3H7NO2 - proportion: 790
alpha-aminobutyric acid - C₄H₉NO₂ - proportion: 270
a(alpha)-Hydroxy-aminobutyric acid - C4H8O3 - proportion: 74
Norvaline - ‎C5H11NO2 - proportion: 61
Sarcosine - C3H7NO2 - proportion: 55
Aspartic acid - C4H7NO4 - proportion: 34
2,4 [alpha/gamma]-diaminobutyric acid- C4H10N2O2 - proportion: 33
alpha[2]-Aminoisobutyric acid - H2N-C(CH3)2-COOH; C₄H₉NO₂ - proportion 30
N-Ethylglycine -C4H9NO2 - proportion: 30

And this list of how the 20 amino acids in proteins are grouped according to the characteristics of their side chains:

Aliphatic - alanine , glycine, isoleucine , leucine , proline , valine
Aromatic - phenylalanine , tryptophan , tyrosine
Acidic - aspartic acid, glutamic acid
Basic - arginine , histidine , lysine
Hydroxylic - serine, threonine
Sulphur-containing - cysteine , methionine
Amidic (containing amide group) - asparagine, glutamine

And this list of chemical reaction product proportions produced by Miller relative to formic acid (the primary product = 1000 in the proportion list):

Formic acid - 1000
Glycine - 270
Glycolic acid - 240
Alanine - 146
Lactic acid - 133
beta-Alanine - 64
Acetic acid - 64
Propionic acid - 56
Iminodiacetic acid - 24
Sarcosine - 21
a·Amino-n-butyric acid - 21
a-Hydroxybutyric acid - 21
Succinic acid - 17
Urea - 17
Iminoaceticpropionic acid - 9
N-Methyl urea - 6
N-Methylalanine - 6
Glutamic acid - 4
Aspartic acid - 3.2

For example, how did Aspartic acid get selected from all of the other amino acids produced?
a·Aminoisobutyric acid - 0.4

 

[BreezeWood]

My problem with evolution is randomness. Give a million monkeys a million years on a million typewriters...you'll never get a single stanza of Romeo and Juliet...yet we're to believe that all these cells and proteins and DNA and RNA and mitochondria all wrote themselves randomly. That the cones and rods in your eyes learned to transmit images to a brain that built itself...randomly.

I just don't buy it.

There is no watch without a watchmaker.

Logical deduction. Informational molecules require input of information. For example, statistical vs. informational proteins.

Also, selection is required for the 20 amino acids in proteins. Synthesis experiments (e.g. by Miller) show most of the amino acids produced are not used in proteins.

I also posted on another thread this list of amino acids (mostly non-proteinous) produced in the Miller-Urey experiment according to their relative proportions:

Glycine - C₂H₅NO₂ - proportion: 440
Alanine - C3H7NO2 - proportion: 790
alpha-aminobutyric acid - C₄H₉NO₂ - proportion: 270
a(alpha)-Hydroxy-aminobutyric acid - C4H8O3 - proportion: 74
Norvaline - ‎C5H11NO2 - proportion: 61
Sarcosine - C3H7NO2 - proportion: 55
Aspartic acid - C4H7NO4 - proportion: 34
2,4 [alpha/gamma]-diaminobutyric acid- C4H10N2O2 - proportion: 33
alpha[2]-Aminoisobutyric acid - H2N-C(CH3)2-COOH; C₄H₉NO₂ - proportion 30
N-Ethylglycine -C4H9NO2 - proportion: 30

And this list of how the 20 amino acids in proteins are grouped according to the characteristics of their side chains:

Aliphatic - alanine , glycine, isoleucine , leucine , proline , valine
Aromatic - phenylalanine , tryptophan , tyrosine
Acidic - aspartic acid, glutamic acid
Basic - arginine , histidine , lysine
Hydroxylic - serine, threonine
Sulphur-containing - cysteine , methionine
Amidic (containing amide group) - asparagine, glutamine

And this list of chemical reaction product proportions produced by Miller relative to formic acid (the primary product = 1000 in the proportion list):

Formic acid - 1000
Glycine - 270
Glycolic acid - 240
Alanine - 146
Lactic acid - 133
beta-Alanine - 64
Acetic acid - 64
Propionic acid - 56
Iminodiacetic acid - 24
Sarcosine - 21
a·Amino-n-butyric acid - 21
a-Hydroxybutyric acid - 21
Succinic acid - 17
Urea - 17
Iminoaceticpropionic acid - 9
N-Methyl urea - 6
N-Methylalanine - 6
Glutamic acid - 4
Aspartic acid - 3.2

For example, how did Aspartic acid get selected from all of the other amino acids produced?
a·Aminoisobutyric acid - 0.4

Logical deduction. Informational molecules require input of information.

For example, how did Aspartic acid get selected from all of the other amino acids produced?

.
not that you ever support what you write ...

the spiritual content of the developing physiology is the guidance for the evolutionary advancements. - building blocks in arrangements suitable to create physiology.

the monkeys over time so disposed would by their spiritual content write a play - romeo and juliet. same as a caterpillar.

you skirt why you are even religious by your simplistic chemical analysis while all the time denying the guiding force that brought it to life.

 

[Aletheia4u]

 

[Hawkins]

Evolution is the satanic lie creating a distance between you and God. Stop to sin, repent and come back to God, otherwise it will be too late

Scientism as a whole, including ToE, is a lie for those who don't actually understand science to fall for. ToE, unlike biology or chemistry, doesn't have a single bit of falsifiability for it to be called a science.

In terms of science, not falsifiable means if it's true we can't tell. If it's false we can't tell either. That's what ToE is by far.

 

[Likkmee]

God created evolution too.9:00 or so if Facebook is molesting you