Evangelicals and Trump

Taz

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I'm not religious, where did you get that? But speaking in those kinds of terms so that you may understand my position, I don't think that the soul enters the body at conception, nor hangs around the womb. That comes into play when born, maybe a little later. Otherwise people would remember being in the womb...
>>I'm not religious, where did you get that?<<

You are in the R&E forum and you've been a participant here for a long time. You have the religion of atheism. You have faith in no God/gods. You are plenty religious.

The other thing that irritates me is that you discuss things such as soul and are mistaken. A spirit is formed during conception -- What Does the Bible Say About When Life Begins?. Life begins at conception because you are in the womb. A spirit doesn't enter the egg. That only happened at the creation of Adam. God breathed life into Adam. The spirit is what is supernatural. Nature cannot create it.

As to your position, you take so many and have so many opinions that it's hard to keep track, i.e. your faith isn't strong nor convincing. I don't even want to get into discuss remembering being in the womb or as an infant. What's important is being born again.
I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.
I doubt people would think you're agnostic. You make assumptions and have opinions that favor atheism. Maybe your faith in no God/gods is not strong. Your heart shows you favor atheism.
I don’t care what people think, I’m agnostic. No proof either way.
 

Taz

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The legal system recognizes individuals. Genetically distinct individuals are created at conception.
:link:
"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being...[this] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion, it is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence...." - Dr Jerome LeJeune, Professor of Genetics at the University of Descartes, Paris, discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down's Syndrome, and Nobel Prize Winner, Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981


Now where is YOUR link that says otherwise, dummy?
First of all, your quote by the doctor is irrelevant to a legal question, and secondly, the bill you linked to never passed!!!!!
Got anything else?:popcorn:
I got tons.

"….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council


So where are your links, dummy? :lol:
That's not a link to something legal, just to a doctor's opinion. Please try again.
Isn't that what slave owners said about slaves and the Nazi's said about the Jews?
Strike 2.
 

Votto

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Christians are the only thing holding the US back from a fate like Venezuela.
Bullshit. Religion has little to do with America’s economic well being. Anyway, there are more Democrat Christians than Republican.


View attachment 391418
Religion has little to do with America’s economic well being

This statement is just not true.

This is what Ben Franklin had to say and he was spot on!

“I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well-administred; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administred for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.”
― Benjamin Franklin


Now you could argue that "religion" does not improve morality, and there may be a certain degree of truth to that when not assessing the said religion. For example, Satanists are not improving the moral fabric of any country, yet they are "religious".

But you will find that the great majority of religions in the world today are Bible based, and as such, are the glue that holds the nations together. Those that follow its teachings give to the poor, don't steal from others, and are vital for economic prosperity. Conversely, Left wingers like you just assume all evil people are evil and must be forced to share with the poor. Then you have the government tax them where only about 9 cents on the dollar goes to those in need, the rest is lapped up by greedy corrupt government officials for God only knows what. Conversely, those of faith want to give to the poor as a form of worship to their God, and those receiving the help have gratitude for the giving. But those who get tax money don't have the same level of gratitude, in fact, it is never enough. They feel entitled, not blessed. And those paying taxes spend all day trying to get out of paying them. In fact, the person that get out of paying the most is the happiest person on earth.

The US was such a success because it was started by a diverse group of people who sought religios freedom, and as Franklin eluded to, only a moral society can be free. If society had the moral compass of a jail cell, then all that can be done is build a wall around them and hire a warden.

In fact, jail is the Left wing utopia. All meals are free, health care is free, everyone dresses the same, and every day is gay pride day.
 
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ding

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The legal system recognizes individuals. Genetically distinct individuals are created at conception.
:link:
"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being...[this] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion, it is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence...." - Dr Jerome LeJeune, Professor of Genetics at the University of Descartes, Paris, discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down's Syndrome, and Nobel Prize Winner, Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981


Now where is YOUR link that says otherwise, dummy?
First of all, your quote by the doctor is irrelevant to a legal question, and secondly, the bill you linked to never passed!!!!!
Got anything else?:popcorn:
I got tons.

"….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.” Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council


So where are your links, dummy? :lol:
That's not a link to something legal, just to a doctor's opinion. Please try again.
Isn't that what slave owners said about slaves and the Nazi's said about the Jews?
Strike 2.
Shocking you would see your beat down that way. :lol:
 

BreezeWood

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So, why don't you believe that a woman's rights should begin when her life does.
I do. I don’t agree with your religious beliefs and wonder why you seek to impose your religious beliefs on me.
How can I best prove to you that I don't have any religious views to impose on you or on anyone else?
Stop lying. Only the religiously impaired take your position.
No. That's not correct. Science tells us that a specific human life comes into existence at conception. Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.

See? No religious argument needed at all, dummy.
.
Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.
.
bing refuses to reveal the letter from his priest allowing for his vasectomy - abortion.
 

BreezeWood

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What then of religion? Has it lost its holiness, its goodness.
I subscribe to no organized religion or what they called revealed religion, however I respected all who practice whatever faith they choose ir inherent from their parents.

I detest those who “use” religion for personal and or group enrichment and political gain. Trump and Jerry Falwell Jr are the most recent in the news come to mind.
Trump’s Bible holding stunt across the street from the White is the most deplorable non-criminal, putrid, dishonest and repulsive conduct we see on matters of politics and religion.,

Christianity has not list its holiness. It is my opinion that in America Christianity has been hijacked by what generally is known as White Christian Nationalists who push the false idea that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

if you want to purify your evangelical religion you need to start by refuting the white Chrisian Nationalists and the man they worship right now. Donald J Trump.


Trump has not used religion. He has allied politically with the Religious Right, as they have shared goals, and shared enemies.


That is normal and healthy politics. No one finds it odd that black churches supported Bill Clinton.


Trump holding a bible was not "using religion" but showing respect to a significant portion of the population that is Christian.


After all, the context was a church being burnt down.
.
Trump holding a bible was not "using religion" but showing respect to a significant portion of the population that is Christian.
.
no, trump was displaying his militancy against an unsuspecting demonstration that had nothing to do with the christian church across the street. and everything to do with a photo op holding a christian bible as the excuse for his behavior.

Holding a bible does is not a show of "militancy".

Holding a bible is nothing to the "demonstration".


HIs behavior was fine.


You string your words together as though they support your argument, (which to be fair, is more than most libs can do)


but, they actually DON'T support your argument or your conclusion.

Your claims are just false.
.
Holding a bible does is not a show of "militancy".
.
really ...
.
View attachment 390918
.
take a closer look.
as for an example how to properly hold - that book
.
View attachment 390919
.
showing warmth - compassion and a sense of duty.

Holding a book upside is not a show of "militancy".


Like I said, you structure your sentences as though you have a supporting argument. But your claims are senseless garbage that only have the FORM of a supporting arrgument.


They mostly claim shit that just isn't true.


Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?


Trump is a secular billionaire who decided to run for the Presidency. He crafted a policy platform that appealed, primarily to an underserved voter bloc, ie working class and middle class whites.

That was completely valid. That it offends you, shows that you are likely racist.


That he gets political support from religious conservatives based on political reasons, despite not being personally religious is completely ok. Your attempt to gin that up into a scandal is frankly stupid and ignorant.
.
That he gets political support from religious conservatives based on political reasons, despite not being personally religious is completely ok. Your attempt to gin that up into a scandal is frankly stupid and ignorant.
.
I referred to the unsuspecting demonstrators that were militarily manhandled against their constitutional rights for a political photo-op by a narcissistic zealot.

there is nothing "completely ok" in anything you have posted.

Clearing the streets of a protest, especially in the context of widespread civil unrest to the point that words like "insurrection" and "sedition" are being used, seriously,


is also not a sign of "militancy", but simply being tired of your sides shit.


YOu do realize that as you escalate, the other side will at least match your escalations, if not escalate themselves, right?

I mean, seriously, you've started a war, and now you are whining that the other side is fighting back....


what kind of man are you?
.
I referred to the unsuspecting demonstrators that were militarily manhandled against their constitutional rights for a political photo-op by a narcissistic zealot.
Clearing the streets of a protest, especially in the context of widespread civil unrest to the point that words like "insurrection" and "sedition" are being used, seriously, ... I mean, seriously, you've started a war, and now you are whining that the other side is fighting back....
.
they were exercising their rights under the 1st amendment - you are a duplicitous liar.
 

ding

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So, why don't you believe that a woman's rights should begin when her life does.
I do. I don’t agree with your religious beliefs and wonder why you seek to impose your religious beliefs on me.
How can I best prove to you that I don't have any religious views to impose on you or on anyone else?
Stop lying. Only the religiously impaired take your position.
No. That's not correct. Science tells us that a specific human life comes into existence at conception. Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.

See? No religious argument needed at all, dummy.
.
Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.
.
bing refuses to reveal the letter from his priest allowing for his vasectomy - abortion.
What you do is between you and God. Same for me. You don't know the first thing about Catholic practices. There is a practical aspect to everything we do and you have no intention of ever trying to objectively understand it. So this conversation would be a waste of my time. You will have to figure out another way to carry on your subversion to amuse your perversion.
 

ding

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Even Margaret Sanger - founder of Planner Parenthood - understood that abortion was ending a human life and as such is an abomination. Which is why SHE wouldn't allow it in her clinics.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so selfish that they cannot recognize that they are dehumanizing human life no different than slave owners or the Nazis.
 

Correll

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What then of religion? Has it lost its holiness, its goodness.
I subscribe to no organized religion or what they called revealed religion, however I respected all who practice whatever faith they choose ir inherent from their parents.

I detest those who “use” religion for personal and or group enrichment and political gain. Trump and Jerry Falwell Jr are the most recent in the news come to mind.
Trump’s Bible holding stunt across the street from the White is the most deplorable non-criminal, putrid, dishonest and repulsive conduct we see on matters of politics and religion.,

Christianity has not list its holiness. It is my opinion that in America Christianity has been hijacked by what generally is known as White Christian Nationalists who push the false idea that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

if you want to purify your evangelical religion you need to start by refuting the white Chrisian Nationalists and the man they worship right now. Donald J Trump.


Trump has not used religion. He has allied politically with the Religious Right, as they have shared goals, and shared enemies.


That is normal and healthy politics. No one finds it odd that black churches supported Bill Clinton.


Trump holding a bible was not "using religion" but showing respect to a significant portion of the population that is Christian.


After all, the context was a church being burnt down.
.
Trump holding a bible was not "using religion" but showing respect to a significant portion of the population that is Christian.
.
no, trump was displaying his militancy against an unsuspecting demonstration that had nothing to do with the christian church across the street. and everything to do with a photo op holding a christian bible as the excuse for his behavior.

Holding a bible does is not a show of "militancy".

Holding a bible is nothing to the "demonstration".


HIs behavior was fine.


You string your words together as though they support your argument, (which to be fair, is more than most libs can do)


but, they actually DON'T support your argument or your conclusion.

Your claims are just false.
.
Holding a bible does is not a show of "militancy".
.
really ...
.
View attachment 390918
.
take a closer look.
as for an example how to properly hold - that book
.
View attachment 390919
.
showing warmth - compassion and a sense of duty.

Holding a book upside is not a show of "militancy".


Like I said, you structure your sentences as though you have a supporting argument. But your claims are senseless garbage that only have the FORM of a supporting arrgument.


They mostly claim shit that just isn't true.


Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?


Trump is a secular billionaire who decided to run for the Presidency. He crafted a policy platform that appealed, primarily to an underserved voter bloc, ie working class and middle class whites.

That was completely valid. That it offends you, shows that you are likely racist.


That he gets political support from religious conservatives based on political reasons, despite not being personally religious is completely ok. Your attempt to gin that up into a scandal is frankly stupid and ignorant.
.
That he gets political support from religious conservatives based on political reasons, despite not being personally religious is completely ok. Your attempt to gin that up into a scandal is frankly stupid and ignorant.
.
I referred to the unsuspecting demonstrators that were militarily manhandled against their constitutional rights for a political photo-op by a narcissistic zealot.

there is nothing "completely ok" in anything you have posted.

Clearing the streets of a protest, especially in the context of widespread civil unrest to the point that words like "insurrection" and "sedition" are being used, seriously,


is also not a sign of "militancy", but simply being tired of your sides shit.


YOu do realize that as you escalate, the other side will at least match your escalations, if not escalate themselves, right?

I mean, seriously, you've started a war, and now you are whining that the other side is fighting back....


what kind of man are you?
.
I referred to the unsuspecting demonstrators that were militarily manhandled against their constitutional rights for a political photo-op by a narcissistic zealot.
Clearing the streets of a protest, especially in the context of widespread civil unrest to the point that words like "insurrection" and "sedition" are being used, seriously, ... I mean, seriously, you've started a war, and now you are whining that the other side is fighting back....
.
they were exercising their rights under the 1st amendment - you are a duplicitous liar.
They are part of wide spread civil unrest, that has killed dozens and injured thousands and caused billions in damages.

Clearing the streets of them, was not a sign of "militancy".
 

BreezeWood

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So, why don't you believe that a woman's rights should begin when her life does.
I do. I don’t agree with your religious beliefs and wonder why you seek to impose your religious beliefs on me.
How can I best prove to you that I don't have any religious views to impose on you or on anyone else?
Stop lying. Only the religiously impaired take your position.
No. That's not correct. Science tells us that a specific human life comes into existence at conception. Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.

See? No religious argument needed at all, dummy.
.
Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.
.
bing refuses to reveal the letter from his priest allowing for his vasectomy - abortion.
What you do is between you and God. Same for me. You don't know the first thing about Catholic practices. There is a practical aspect to everything we do and you have no intention of ever trying to objectively understand it. So this conversation would be a waste of my time. You will have to figure out another way to carry on your subversion to amuse your perversion.
.
What you do is between you and God. Same for me. You don't know the first thing about Catholic practices. There is a practical aspect to everything we do and you have no intention of ever trying to objectively understand it. So this conversation would be a waste of my time. You will have to figure out another way to carry on your subversion to amuse your perversion.
.
you are using your false religion for the purpose it was madeup to impose your beliefs on others through forgeries and fallacies as an exercise of extortion.
 

ding

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It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
 

ding

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So, why don't you believe that a woman's rights should begin when her life does.
I do. I don’t agree with your religious beliefs and wonder why you seek to impose your religious beliefs on me.
How can I best prove to you that I don't have any religious views to impose on you or on anyone else?
Stop lying. Only the religiously impaired take your position.
No. That's not correct. Science tells us that a specific human life comes into existence at conception. Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.

See? No religious argument needed at all, dummy.
.
Common sense tells us that it is wrong to end a human life especially for selfish reasons.
.
bing refuses to reveal the letter from his priest allowing for his vasectomy - abortion.
What you do is between you and God. Same for me. You don't know the first thing about Catholic practices. There is a practical aspect to everything we do and you have no intention of ever trying to objectively understand it. So this conversation would be a waste of my time. You will have to figure out another way to carry on your subversion to amuse your perversion.
.
What you do is between you and God. Same for me. You don't know the first thing about Catholic practices. There is a practical aspect to everything we do and you have no intention of ever trying to objectively understand it. So this conversation would be a waste of my time. You will have to figure out another way to carry on your subversion to amuse your perversion.
.
you are using your false religion for the purpose it was madeup to impose your beliefs on others through forgeries and fallacies an exercise of extortion.
You don't like my religion... tough shit. I'm not asking for your permission.

I'm not imposing my beliefs, dipshit. I'm advocating for the rights of the defenseless. How many more dishonest arguments are you going to make to justify ending a human life; to justify dehumanizing human life? How many more? Let's hear them all.
 

ding

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Even Margaret Sanger - founder of Planner Parenthood - understood that abortion was ending a human life and as such is an abomination. Which is why SHE wouldn't allow it in her clinics.
 

BreezeWood

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It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
- and your purpose for the "discussion" you have not already imposed by your incendiary statements.
 

ding

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It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
- and your purpose for the "discussion" you have not already imposed by your incendiary statements.
To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.
 

BreezeWood

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It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
- and your purpose for the "discussion" you have not already imposed by your incendiary statements.
To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.
To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.
but murdering everything else in Garden Earth is ok -
.
1600726512755.png

.
you've not explained how having a vasectomy or using a condom is not the same as an abortion ... fill us in.
 

ding

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It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
- and your purpose for the "discussion" you have not already imposed by your incendiary statements.
To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.
To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.
but murdering everything else in Garden Earth is ok -
.
View attachment 391463
.
you've not explained how having a vasectomy or using a condom is not the same as an abortion ... fill us in.
Holy shit, you want to justify abortion based on that? Really?

Again, it would be super nice to have an honest discussion for once.

Do you have an honest discussion?
 

ding

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Even Margaret Sanger - founder of Planner Parenthood - understood that abortion was ending a human life and as such is an abomination. Which is why SHE wouldn't allow it in her clinics.
 

BreezeWood

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It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.
.
- and your purpose for the "discussion" you have not already imposed by your incendiary statements.
To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.
To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.
but murdering everything else in Garden Earth is ok -
.
View attachment 391463
.
you've not explained how having a vasectomy or using a condom is not the same as an abortion ... fill us in.
Holy shit, you want to justify abortion based on that? Really?

Again, it would be super nice to have an honest discussion for once.

Do you have an honest discussion?
.
you've not explained how having a vasectomy or using a condom is not the same as an abortion ... fill us in.
Again, it would be super nice to have an honest discussion for once.
.
you've been given a chance ...
 

Tom Paine 1949

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The discussion theme is “Evangelicals & Trump.” To understand the degeneration of the Republican Party into a nationalist cult in which millions actually believe Democrats, Liberals and Progressives are “satanic,” “murderers,” and “atheist communists” with whom no compromise is possible ... it is necessary to understand the GOP’s modern history, it’s opportunist turn to the religious right. Here is a view that captures the differences that 50 years have wrought on the American “Republican” Party:

Barry Goldwater, (1909-1998), was a five-term US Senator, the Republican Party nominee for President in 1964 ... a Maj. Gen. in the US Air Force Reserves, and he authored the book "The Conscience of a Conservative."

50 years ago he was fed up with the John Birchers and their ever tightening grip on the Republican Party. He called them the "Religious Right" when their term at the time was the "Moral Majority."

Surprisingly, the straw that broke the camel's back in Barry's case, was the debate about women's bodily autonomy and her right of access to abortion. "If this is going to take a fight, they're gonna find ole Goldie fighting like hell!"

"Today's ‘conservatives’ doesn't even know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. That's a decision up to the pregnant woman, not the Pope, or some do-gooders or the Religious Right. It's not a conservative issue at all."

When asked about his opinions regarding the appointment of Sandra Day O'Conner and the Jerry Falwell statement that "good Christians should be against her appointment," Barry's response was, "I said all good Christians... you should kick them in the ass!"

"When it comes to the place that these groups trying to take away the power of the American citizen, then I have to take exception to it."


Barry summed up his foresight with this quote:

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

“The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are NOT using their religious clout with WISDOM. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of ‘conservatism.’ "

50 Years Ago, Barry Goldwater Saw the Future
 
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