Evangelicals and Trump

[whutTHEYsay]

#181 reply to #163

The US was such a success because it was started by a diverse group of people who sought religios freedom, and as Franklin eluded to, only a moral society can be free.

Franklin’s ‘religious freedom and moral society’ you cite has nothing to do with the bullcrap alliance between Trump and white Christian nationalist evangelicals of today:

Read Franklin’s utmost and hearty ridicule of one of evangelical Christianity’s most important theological doctrines - original sin:

Franklin rejected original sin in his 1735 A Defense of Mr. Hemphill’s Observations:​

But lest they shou’d imagine that one of their strongest Objections hinted at here, and elsewhere, is designedly overlook’d, as being unanswerable, viz. our lost and undone State by Nature, as it is commonly call’d, proceeding undoubtedly from the Imputation of old Father Adam’s first Guilt. To this I answer once for all, that I look upon this Opinion every whit as ridiculous as that of Imputed Righteousness. ’Tis a Notion invented, a Bugbear set up by Priests (whether Popish or Presbyterian I know not) to fright and scare an unthinking Populace out of their Senses, and inspire them with Terror, to answer the little selfish Ends of the Inventors and Propagators. ’Tis absurd in it self, and therefore cannot be father’d upon the Christian Religion as deliver’d in the Gospel. Moral Guilt is so personal a Thing, that it cannot possibly in the Nature of Things be transferr’d from one Man to Myriads of others, that were no way accessary to it. And to suppose a Man liable to Punishment upon account of the Guilt of another, is unreasonable; and actually to punish him for it, is unjust and cruel.​

So if you want to revert modern America to something akin to the secular intellect and morality of our founding fathers you need to start by telling Trump and his white Christian evangelical nationalists to go fly a kite.

thank you for bringing up Benjamin Franklin.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Now you could argue that "religion" does not improve morality,

I won’t argue that "religion" does not improve morality because I understand religion throughout history has had a positive effect on morality perhaps even more so than when It’s corrupted and has a detrimental effect on morality.

My point is that the current status of Trump and white evangelical Christian NationalistS like Correll are corrupting what the OP referred to as pure religion.

Correll defends Trump’s ***** grabbing conduct as not unChristian since it’s done by a wealthy celebrity and the women didn’t object.

I’m sorry, I just can’t see Trump and white evangelical Christianity saving America from becoming Venezuela.

You make no sense - even worse with your rebuttal.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Religion has little to do with America’s economic well being

This statement is just not true.

When you tell me I’m saying something that is not true - I deserve an explanation addressed to the statement. You basically explained that Bible believers have morality and help the poor - but what does that have to do with my statement?

 

[LittleNipper]

Sorry, however, peaceful has nothing to do with setting fires, damaging cars and businesses. Peaceful doesn't apply the use of obscene language or gestures. Peaceful doesn't mean blocking traffic and throwing things at police.

Is it your argument that every single person at a peaceful protest is guilty of setting fires, throwing things at police, or damaging cars and businesses.

Please respond.

No. Clearly, the police that are there were not throwing stones at each other. But the "peaceful" protesters do owe it to those living in the neighborhoods that are being marched through, to "police" each other and turn in those getting out of hand. What is the point if someone says, "I didn't do this or that, but well, I didn't try to stop them either --- it wasn't my problem..."

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Sorry, however, peaceful has nothing to do with setting fires, damaging cars and businesses. Peaceful doesn't apply the use of obscene language or gestures. Peaceful doesn't mean blocking traffic and throwing things at police.

Is it your argument that every single person at a peaceful protest is guilty of setting fires, throwing things at police, or damaging cars and businesses.

Please respond.

No. Clearly, the police that are there were not throwing stones at each other. But the "peaceful" protesters do owe it to those living in the neighborhoods that are being marched through, to "police" each other and turn in those getting out of hand. What is the point if someone says, "I didn't do this or that, but well, I didn't try to stop them either --- it wasn't my problem..."

Very cute. Your views are the result of being confused by reality. You are wrong therefore to lump peaceful protestors in with those who commit violence and set fires

Criminals don’t commit crimes in the midst of peaceful protests.

In New York City, organized groups cased businesses during the day before returning to ransack stores at night after peaceful protests ended.​

In Sacramento, Calif., after a march against police brutality dissipated, a mob broke the windows of a pharmacy and busted through a security door. In Louisville, Ky., after looters hit a Kroger grocery store, the frustrated mayor said criminals exploited demonstrations to steal.​

As largely peaceful protests have erupted across the country—sparked by the killing of a black man, George Floyd, while in Minneapolis police custody—they have frequently been followed by looting. Criminals have stolen from high-end clothing stores on New York’s Fifth Avenue, mom-and-pop restaurants in Minneapolis, and an Amazon van in Santa Monica, Calif.​

​

Much of the destruction and theft appears to have been perpetrated by people who saw civil unrest as an opportunity to commit crimes with a low risk of being caught, according to witnesses, business owners and law enforcement.​

​

Looters Damage Businesses, Anger Protesters

Much of the destruction and theft in U.S. cities in recent days appears to have been perpetrated by people who saw the demonstrations against police brutality as an opportunity to commit crimes with a low risk of being caught.

www.google.com

 

[Correll]

It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.

.

It would be so refreshing to have an honest discussion for once with an advocate for abortion.

.
- and your purpose for the "discussion" you have not already imposed by your incendiary statements.

To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.

To state the obvious; that it is wrong to abort a human life.

but murdering everything else in Garden Earth is ok -
.
View attachment 391463
.
you've not explained how having a vasectomy or using a condom is not the same as an abortion ... fill us in.

That is moronic. Completely moronic.

 

[Correll]

The discussion theme is “Evangelicals & Trump.” To understand the degeneration of the Republican Party into a nationalist cult in which millions actually believe Democrats, Liberals and Progressives are “satanic,” “murderers,” and “atheist communists” with whom no compromise is possible ... it is necessary to understand the GOP’s modern history, it’s opportunist turn to the religious right. Here is a view that captures the differences that 50 years have wrought on the American “Republican” Party:
....

You complain about the impossibility of compromise, in the same sentence that you marginalize the entire Republican Party as a "nationalist cult".


Your side is the one that broke this system. YOURS.

Also, NATIONALISM, used to be called PATRIOTISM, and was considered a VIRTURE though the vast majority of American history.


So, when you do that, you dismiss and disavow most of American history and traditions.

 

[Correll]

#181 reply to #163

The US was such a success because it was started by a diverse group of people who sought religios freedom, and as Franklin eluded to, only a moral society can be free.

Franklin’s ‘religious freedom and moral society’ you cite has nothing to do with the bullcrap alliance between Trump and white Christian nationalist evangelicals of today:
...

1. If you are implying that White Nationalists and Evangelicals are one and the same, you are lying and a race baiting whore.

2. If you are not, then why are you so focused on the RR being mostly White? Are white groups not allowed to engage in the political process or are you just a racist?

3. And nothing wrong with Nationalism either. Your guys attempt to just decide that something is bad, and then start pretending it is, is bullcrap gaslighting.

4. Your side is the bad guys here. We both know that. YOu show that, ,when you lie so much.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The discussion theme is “Evangelicals & Trump.” To understand the degeneration of the Republican Party into a nationalist cult in which millions actually believe Democrats, Liberals and Progressives are “satanic,” “murderers,” and “atheist communists” with whom no compromise is possible ... it is necessary to understand the GOP’s modern history, it’s opportunist turn to the religious right. Here is a view that captures the differences that 50 years have wrought on the American “Republican” Party:
....

You complain about the impossibility of compromise, in the same sentence that you marginalize the entire Republican Party as a "nationalist cult".

Your side is the one that broke this system. YOURS.

Also, NATIONALISM, used to be called PATRIOTISM, and was considered a VIRTURE though the vast majority of American history.

So, when you do that, you dismiss and disavow most of American history and traditions.

The article and video highlights what Barry Goldwater believed about Evangelical preachers of the “religious right,” and how they couldn’t be reasoned with. If you have problems with it, you should take it up with Barry Goldwater. You should also learn to read, and think, in more than one dimension, when reading my own comments.

 

[Correll]

Now you could argue that "religion" does not improve morality,

I won’t argue that "religion" does not improve morality because I understand religion throughout history has had a positive effect on morality perhaps even more so than when It’s corrupted and has a detrimental effect on morality.

My point is that the current status of Trump and white evangelical Christian NationalistS like Correll are corrupting what the OP referred to as pure religion.

Correll defends Trump’s ***** grabbing conduct as not unChristian since it’s done by a wealthy celebrity and the women didn’t object.

I’m sorry, I just can’t see Trump and white evangelical Christianity saving America from becoming Venezuela.

You make no sense - even worse with your rebuttal.

1. I am not a White Nationalist nor a Evangelical. YOu are a fool.

2. I defend Trump's "***** grabbing" because it was consensual sex. YOu are a lying whore.

3. Religion in this country has always been involved in politics. Your desire to smear your enemies is leading you to just make up shit. You are a lying whore.

4. Also, get back to me, when you start having a problem with the political role that black churches play in the dem party. LOL!! You are a ******* hypocrite.

 

[Correll]

The discussion theme is “Evangelicals & Trump.” To understand the degeneration of the Republican Party into a nationalist cult in which millions actually believe Democrats, Liberals and Progressives are “satanic,” “murderers,” and “atheist communists” with whom no compromise is possible ... it is necessary to understand the GOP’s modern history, it’s opportunist turn to the religious right. Here is a view that captures the differences that 50 years have wrought on the American “Republican” Party:
....

You complain about the impossibility of compromise, in the same sentence that you marginalize the entire Republican Party as a "nationalist cult".

Your side is the one that broke this system. YOURS.

Also, NATIONALISM, used to be called PATRIOTISM, and was considered a VIRTURE though the vast majority of American history.

So, when you do that, you dismiss and disavow most of American history and traditions.

The article and video highlights what Barry Goldwater believed about Evangelical preachers of the “religious right, and how they couldn’t be reasoned with. If you have problems with it, you should take it up with Barry Goldwater. You should also learn to read, and think, in more than one dimension, when reading my own comments.

I respect Barry Goldwater as an important historical American leader.

But I do not defer to him as an Authority you can Appeal to, INSTEAD of making reasoned, supporting arguments for your conclusions or positions.


My point stands. You and yours are the ones smearing your enemies, making up reasons to marginalize them so their words are dismissed, "nationalist cult", "religious", "wacist", ect.

And then when we note that our input into the discussion is always smeared and dismissed, and thus not fairly considered or included in policy,


you pretend the problem is our reaction to your behavior, instead of your behavior.


NO. YOU DON'T GET TO SET THE RULES SO THAT YOU ALWASY WIN.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

1. I am not a White Nationalist nor a Evangelical. YOu are a fool.

you have identified yourself as one when you promote the white nationalist lie that America was founded as a white Protestant Christian nation.

do you Disagree with mostly white Evangelicals that America was founded as a Christian nation all of a sudden?

 

[Correll]

1. I am not a White Nationalist nor a Evangelical. YOu are a fool.

you have identified yourself as one when you promote the white nationalist lie that America was founded as a white Protestant Christian nation.

do you Disagree with mostly white Evangelicals that America was founded as a Christian nation all of a sudden?

Acknowledging that the interests of Jews and blacks were not high in the list of priorities of the Founding Fathers, is hardly the stuff of White Nationalism.


Indeed, I've heard many a lefty, often with impeccable lefty credentials, saying the exact same thing.


My goal at this point in time is to see you lefties and your ideology crushed, so that we can have a nation where different groups can live together without being set at each others throats by your sides constant wace mongering.


An uphill battle, I admit, but not what White Nationalists are going for. That is my point. Before you go off and try to dodge it, like you people ALWAYS do.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

1. I am not a White Nationalist nor a Evangelical. YOu are a fool.

you have identified yourself as one when you promote the white nationalist lie that America was founded as a white Protestant Christian nation.

do you Disagree with mostly white Evangelicals that America was founded as a Christian nation all of a sudden?

Acknowledging that the interests of Jews and blacks were not high in the list of priorities of the Founding Fathers, is hardly the stuff of White Nationalism.


Indeed, I've heard many a lefty, often with impeccable lefty credentials, saying the exact same thing.


My goal at this point in time is to see you lefties and your ideology crushed, so that we can have a nation where different groups can live together without being set at each others throats by your sides constant wace mongering.


An uphill battle, I admit, but not what White Nationalists are going for. That is my point. Before you go off and try to dodge it, like you people ALWAYS do.

As usual you make no sense. There is no reason at all that in all that you stated above to be spreading the lie and expecting that we all have to believe that America was founded as a white Christian protestant nation.

 

[Correll]

1. I am not a White Nationalist nor a Evangelical. YOu are a fool.

you have identified yourself as one when you promote the white nationalist lie that America was founded as a white Protestant Christian nation.

do you Disagree with mostly white Evangelicals that America was founded as a Christian nation all of a sudden?

Acknowledging that the interests of Jews and blacks were not high in the list of priorities of the Founding Fathers, is hardly the stuff of White Nationalism.


Indeed, I've heard many a lefty, often with impeccable lefty credentials, saying the exact same thing.


My goal at this point in time is to see you lefties and your ideology crushed, so that we can have a nation where different groups can live together without being set at each others throats by your sides constant wace mongering.


An uphill battle, I admit, but not what White Nationalists are going for. That is my point. Before you go off and try to dodge it, like you people ALWAYS do.

As usual you make no sense. There is no reason at all that in all that you stated above to be spreading the lie and expecting that we all have to believe that America was founded as a white Christian protestant nation.

"Founded as" makes it about the Founders intent. Their intent, from what I have seen, seems to have been focused on their fellow mostly English descended Americans.


Not sure what part of that, got your panties in a wad.

Whatever. White Nationalists are about separating from the diverse mess that America has turned into. As far as I know, I have not studied them. My intent is very different.


There, are you prepared to drop your shit about White Nationalist Christian Evangelicals now, or would you rather keep holding on to it, and thus admitting that it was just you wace baiting, because that is what you libs do?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

"Founded as" makes it about the Founders intent. Their intent, from what I have seen, seems to have been focused on their fellow mostly English descended Americans.

The founders ‘intent’ was not to establish a Christian nation. So why do you stick with the white Protestant Christian Evangelicals that insist that America was founded as a white Protestant Christian nation?

if you do believe them why do you defend their propaganda?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

@Correll defends Trump’s ***** grabbing conduct as not unChristian since it’s done by a wealthy celebrity and the women didn’t object.

2. I defend Trump's "***** grabbing" because it was consensual sex. YOu are a lying whore.

You lie as easy as you breath.

I mention the consensual part of your Comment.

“.....the women didn’t object.”

You are a stupid liar since you lie about what’s been written down.

 

[Correll]

"Founded as" makes it about the Founders intent. Their intent, from what I have seen, seems to have been focused on their fellow mostly English descended Americans.

The founders ‘intent’ was not to establish a Christian nation. So why do you stick with the white Protestant Christian Evangelicals that insist that America was founded as a white Protestant Christian nation?

if you do believe them why do you defend their propaganda?

The Founders were focused on avoiding the abuses of having a National Church. Nothing in that, does anything to change the fact that the vast majority of the country was Christian and of that, mostly Protestant.


Again, what about this is so upsetting to you? Why do you care? We have obviously as a society embraced Diversity and Secularism.


So, why so bent out of shape over a question of history from centuries ago?

 

[Correll]

@Correll defends Trump’s ***** grabbing conduct as not unChristian since it’s done by a wealthy celebrity and the women didn’t object.

2. I defend Trump's "***** grabbing" because it was consensual sex. YOu are a lying whore.

You lie as easy as you breath.

I mention the consensual part of your Comment.

“.....the women didn’t object.”

You are a stupid liar since you lie about what’s been written down.

"LET". You are the liar. Or are you pretending to be too stupid to know what the word "let" means?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

4. Also, get back to me, when you start having a problem with the political role that black churches play in the dem party. LOL!! You are a ******* hypocrite.

I will when black churches go around spreading the lie that America was founded as a Christian nation.