European needs help! Death penalty

[Libertarianman]

Thanks to everyone who replied here

My view on capital punishment is that it is easier to do it on murderers because you don't have to take care of them, but I also at times think it is not serious enough for murderers. Not a big enough deterrent. I represent a minority on capital punishment because I have not fully formed an opinion although i would be happy to help you, my German kemoshabe

What could be a bigger deterrent than getting killed?

For me, it would be life without possibility of parole. I would rather die than have to spend the rest of my life in prison.

You just supported my position. Most would rather die and as a DETTERENT we need life in prison

 

[Scholle]

Thanks again to everyone who replied
And Dave, your "little" Essay really helps me. Thank you very very much.
But one question left:
According to a statistic of the german Wikipedia (i am not allowed to post the link) there are many people who were sentenced to death but a very small amount of actual executions (especially in Florida)
Well, In conclusion the reason for the high number of persons sitting in the Death Row by contrast with the smaller number of persons actually executed since 1976 is what you just explained.

But why were Texas able to execute so much more than any other state?
Arent they bount by the U.S. Supreme Court?

 

[FA_Q2]

Thanks again to everyone who replied
And Dave, your "little" Essay really helps me. Thank you very very much.
But one question left:
According to a statistic of the german Wikipedia (i am not allowed to post the link) there are many people who were sentenced to death but a very small amount of actual executions (especially in Florida)
Well, In conclusion the reason for the high number of persons sitting in the Death Row by contrast with the smaller number of persons actually executed since 1976 is what you just explained.

But why were Texas able to execute so much more than any other state?
Arent they bount by the U.S. Supreme Court?

Texas is bound to the constitution just as much as any other state but you must understand that the constitution does not specify the process that the state must go through above and beyond a trial. In other states, opponents of the death penalty have been more successful at placing barriers in carrying out convicted criminal death sentencing. Texas has actually gone in the opposite direction as technology, through DNA and other forensic technology, has made doubt of guilt much smaller. Texas has been trying to refine the process to make it more reasonable.


Currently, many of the supposed advantages of the death penalty are moot because the process is so inefficient that it becomes more expensive and most death penalty convicts are never even put to death.

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[FA_Q2]

Thanks to everyone who replied here



What could be a bigger deterrent than getting killed?

For me, it would be life without possibility of parole. I would rather die than have to spend the rest of my life in prison.

You just supported my position. Most would rather die and as a DETTERENT we need life in prison

I find such statements dubious at best. If you really wanted death, you can always kill yourself while in prison. I am willing to bet that such statements made in the comfort of your home change really quick when you have to walk down the isle to your death. I can't think of anything more frightening that setting your death coming. It is natural to hold onto life.

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[whitehall]

First of all it seems that Germany had no trouble with wholesale executions around 70 years ago. To explain the concept of sentencing criminals to be executed would require explaining the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, especially the 5th Amendment as well as the Supreme Court to ignorant Germans. Conservative Americans are still trying to deal with the gross violation of the 5th Amendment by the Obama administration by ordering the execution of American citizens in foreign countries with drone strikes when it is apparently too difficult to bring them to trial.

 

[Politico]

What do you need help with?

 

[DGS49]

Scholle, all states are bound by the same Supreme Court rulings, but in most states there are a large number of opponents of the death penalty - many of them lawyers in the justice system - who exert a great deal of effort to delay and stop executions. Texas does not have as many opponents who are active, and the population very much supports the death penalty. Also, the Governors (including former President Bush) do not hesitate to sign the death warrants, once all of the appeals and other preliminary matter have been taken care of.

I have not checked the actual numbers, but I suppose Texas does not have a large group of prisoners on Death Row for a long time - there, they are executed.

 

[editec]

Here in America out Old Testament Xhristiansabsolutely LOVE all forms of punishment...the more punishing the better far as they're concerned

They're also deeply into schadenfreude, and blaming the victims whenever possible.

There's your answer, Kid.

About 20% of the USA suffers from Religousity Psychosis

 

[DGS49]

editec, you silly goose.

Schadenfreude has nothing to do with blaming victims; it's feeling good when some exalted person is brought low.

Only a moron would consider that any considerable portion of those convicted of capital crimes (the subject of this thread, if you would care to recall) are "victims."

The word, "justice" implies a balance between the evil perpetrated by the convict and the punishment for the crime. How else can one balance the crime of murder than by execution of the murderer?

It's not complicated, and has nothing to do with the Bible.


DGS49, f/k/a "DaveMort"

 

[Scholle]

First of all it seems that Germany had no trouble with wholesale executions around 70 years ago. To explain the concept of sentencing criminals to be executed would require explaining the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, especially the 5th Amendment as well as the Supreme Court to ignorant Germans. QUOTE]

How can I be ignorant? I join a american forum to ask american people. I want to understand you. And even if I would be ignorant, please dont use the word "Germans". I dont represent anyone but myself. It is hard to understand because the USA is one of the last "industrial countries" keeping the death penalty up.


Summarizing I think for some(!) american the capital punishment seems like the only sensible way of sentence a murder.
The supporters of the capital punishment seem to think way more rational than we do.
We see the Criminal as a Human being, derserving a punishment but deserving a second chance aswell.
Besides there are many factors like Religion (...) i have to examine.
At the end it will be hard to compare the different opinions but I have to find a way to do it.

Thanks to everyone, you guys really helped me!
Wishing you all a happy new year!

 

[Meathead]

Hello,
first of all sorry for my bad english

To introduce myself: Im German, and i have to write an exam about a comparison between German and American attitudes regarding the capital punishment. For my work it is very important to understand the american Point of view, espacially because it´s hard for most european to imagine how a state could actually kill a criminal, even if he murdered.

I would dispute your premise. I have lived in Europe most of my life and found that more people support the death penalty than are opposed to it. This is borne out:

Surprisingly, public opinion polls show that the death penalty is still popular in many of the countries where it is illegal. Support ranges from very low in Scandinavia to 65 percent in Britain. But supporters do not hold their views strongly. The death penalty is not a subject of ongoing political debate, in part because European nations do not elect judges or prosecutors. So most officials who administer the legal system are not subject to campaign pressures or fears of being depicted in television ads as soft on crime.

Europe's View of the Death Penalty - NYTimes.com

 

[freedombecki]

First of all it seems that Germany had no trouble with wholesale executions around 70 years ago. To explain the concept of sentencing criminals to be executed would require explaining the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, especially the 5th Amendment as well as the Supreme Court to ignorant Germans.

How can I be ignorant? I join a american forum to ask american people. I want to understand you. And even if I would be ignorant, please dont use the word "Germans". I dont represent anyone but myself. It is hard to understand because the USA is one of the last "industrial countries" keeping the death penalty up.


Summarizing I think for some(!) american the capital punishment seems like the only sensible way of sentence a murder.
The supporters of the capital punishment seem to think way more rational than we do.
We see the Criminal as a Human being, derserving a punishment but deserving a second chance aswell.
Besides there are many factors like Religion (...) i have to examine.
At the end it will be hard to compare the different opinions but I have to find a way to do it.

Thanks to everyone, you guys really helped me!
Wishing you all a happy new year!

Consider the source, Scholle. Our largest town has a 38% population of individuals who were not born in America. New York is a melting pot, as are areas offering jobs to a lot of people. We have a competitive society, and some people bring their old world ethnic hatreds here, who have to be placed in a facility where they can no longer harm themselves or someone else. Others are born into neighborhoods where one isn't safe unless one belongs to a gang, and that's not safe either, so they're born in situational issues and deal with as learned from peers, which often is to shoot first.

Hope that helps.

 

[freedombecki]

Here in America out Old Testament Xhristiansabsolutely LOVE all forms of punishment...the more punishing the better far as they're concerned

They're also deeply into schadenfreude, and blaming the victims whenever possible.

There's your answer, Kid.

About 20% of the USA suffers from Religousity Psychosis

It's a First Amendment protection, editec. My Auntie Emma had a saying: "If the children are annoying, don't look at 'em!"

 

[FA_Q2]

Here in America out Old Testament Xhristiansabsolutely LOVE all forms of punishment...the more punishing the better far as they're concerned

They're also deeply into schadenfreude, and blaming the victims whenever possible.

There's your answer, Kid.

About 20% of the USA suffers from Religousity Psychosis

Take your partisan blather elsewhere. This is the asshattery that I had hoped would stay out of this thread because the person here is asking for genuine insight rather than what you think others believe. It is obvious that you have no concept of why people support the death penalty.


Just as an example, I support the death penalty ant in a much more efficient way than currently applied (read faster) and I am not religious in any shape or form. The death penalty has absolutely zero to do with religion with many religious and non religious people on both sides of the issue.

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2

 

[NoNukes]

Dear Scholle:

First, you should understand that most Americans very much support the IDEA of the death penalty. That is to say, for our worst criminals if they are proven guilty and there are no mitigating circumstances (excuses), it is appropriate to execute them. If done quickly and "fairly," the death penalty not only rids our society of the worst of criminals (rather than keeping them alive in prison for 50-60 years, at taxpayers' expense), but it serves as an example to other potential criminals that they will be executed if caught and convicted. But alas, it doesn't often work that way.

Note also that the U.S. Constitution sanctions the death penalty in at least two places. Both the Fifth and the Fourteenth Amendments refer to the government "depriving a citizen of life" (that is, executing them), and stating that doing so requires "due process of law," which refers to having a trial, conviction, and so on. So if the government has a trial and does things properly, the Constitution says that the government has the right to execute them.

So, theoretically, in order to outlaw the death penalty, it would be necessary to amend the Constitution. But as with slavery 150 years ago, there is a large and vocal portion of the population that would like to eliminate the death penalty (despite the wishes of the majority), in any way that they can, even knowing that they could never get enough support for a constitutional amendment to eliminate it. Their strategies are basically the following:

They look at the 8th Amendment to the Constitution that prohibits "cruel and unusual punishments." At the time when it was passed, the authors were referring to physical torture, starvation, and things of that nature. Anti-death penalty partisans claim that the "cruel and unusual" language evolves over time, as society's standards evolve. Indeed, in 1791, when the Eighth Amendment was ratified, flogging (whipping) was a common punishment for many crimes, and the penalty for stealing a horse was execution. Obviously, contemporary Americans would be horrified to impose such penalties now, and they are generally considered to be unconstitutional, as unnecessarily "cruel and unusual." So the argument goes that the death penalty has now become "cruel and unusual," so should implicitly be prohibited. But the U.S. Supreme Court has never fully accepted this argument.

The second attack on the death penalty is a practical one. The U.S. Supreme Court over the years has simply made it incredibly difficult to execute someone. The trial court must go through many procedural steps to convict someone of a capital crime, there are mandatory appeals through the courts, appeals can be in both the state courts (where most of them are convicted) and the Federal courts on numerous grounds. The result is that in most states, it takes 8-10 years to execute someone, even if everything goes "smoothly."

Then, any governor can stop an execution any time he wants, and for any reason (or no reason at all). He can simply decline to sign the death warrant, without which the execution cannot proceed. Most American states have dozens of people who are sitting in prisons on "Death Row," and waiting to be executed. Other than in Texas, more "capital criminals" (people sentenced to death) die of old age or disease than are actually executed.

Thus, the death penalty is quite rare, and even non-existent in many states, despite the fact that the general population would prefer to have it available for the worst criminals. To be specific for a moment, we now have a U.S. military officer who opened fire on, and killed several soldiers in an internal terrorist attack a few years ago, and I would bet that 80% of the U.S. population would not only support his execution, but would gladly fire the shot into his despicable brain to accomplish the deed.

Death penalty opponents constantly spread the idea that any given person convicted of a capital offense COULD BE INNOCENT(!), and if so, the State would be guilty of MURDER! This puts some people off, and of course there have been a very few cases where people on Death Row have been vindicated. But despite a hundred years of trying, they have NEVER found a single case of someone being executed who did not in fact commit the crime for which he was convicted. Not a single case.

Hope this little essay is some help.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen von Pennsylvania (USA)

Dave

Our German friend should realize that this 'little essay' is very opinionated and should not be taken as fact.

 

[FA_Q2]

Dear Scholle:

First, you should understand that most Americans very much support the IDEA of the death penalty. That is to say, for our worst criminals if they are proven guilty and there are no mitigating circumstances (excuses), it is appropriate to execute them. If done quickly and "fairly," the death penalty not only rids our society of the worst of criminals (rather than keeping them alive in prison for 50-60 years, at taxpayers' expense), but it serves as an example to other potential criminals that they will be executed if caught and convicted. But alas, it doesn't often work that way.

Note also that the U.S. Constitution sanctions the death penalty in at least two places. Both the Fifth and the Fourteenth Amendments refer to the government "depriving a citizen of life" (that is, executing them), and stating that doing so requires "due process of law," which refers to having a trial, conviction, and so on. So if the government has a trial and does things properly, the Constitution says that the government has the right to execute them.

So, theoretically, in order to outlaw the death penalty, it would be necessary to amend the Constitution. But as with slavery 150 years ago, there is a large and vocal portion of the population that would like to eliminate the death penalty (despite the wishes of the majority), in any way that they can, even knowing that they could never get enough support for a constitutional amendment to eliminate it. Their strategies are basically the following:

They look at the 8th Amendment to the Constitution that prohibits "cruel and unusual punishments." At the time when it was passed, the authors were referring to physical torture, starvation, and things of that nature. Anti-death penalty partisans claim that the "cruel and unusual" language evolves over time, as society's standards evolve. Indeed, in 1791, when the Eighth Amendment was ratified, flogging (whipping) was a common punishment for many crimes, and the penalty for stealing a horse was execution. Obviously, contemporary Americans would be horrified to impose such penalties now, and they are generally considered to be unconstitutional, as unnecessarily "cruel and unusual." So the argument goes that the death penalty has now become "cruel and unusual," so should implicitly be prohibited. But the U.S. Supreme Court has never fully accepted this argument.

The second attack on the death penalty is a practical one. The U.S. Supreme Court over the years has simply made it incredibly difficult to execute someone. The trial court must go through many procedural steps to convict someone of a capital crime, there are mandatory appeals through the courts, appeals can be in both the state courts (where most of them are convicted) and the Federal courts on numerous grounds. The result is that in most states, it takes 8-10 years to execute someone, even if everything goes "smoothly."

Then, any governor can stop an execution any time he wants, and for any reason (or no reason at all). He can simply decline to sign the death warrant, without which the execution cannot proceed. Most American states have dozens of people who are sitting in prisons on "Death Row," and waiting to be executed. Other than in Texas, more "capital criminals" (people sentenced to death) die of old age or disease than are actually executed.

Thus, the death penalty is quite rare, and even non-existent in many states, despite the fact that the general population would prefer to have it available for the worst criminals. To be specific for a moment, we now have a U.S. military officer who opened fire on, and killed several soldiers in an internal terrorist attack a few years ago, and I would bet that 80% of the U.S. population would not only support his execution, but would gladly fire the shot into his despicable brain to accomplish the deed.

Death penalty opponents constantly spread the idea that any given person convicted of a capital offense COULD BE INNOCENT(!), and if so, the State would be guilty of MURDER! This puts some people off, and of course there have been a very few cases where people on Death Row have been vindicated. But despite a hundred years of trying, they have NEVER found a single case of someone being executed who did not in fact commit the crime for which he was convicted. Not a single case.

Hope this little essay is some help.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen von Pennsylvania (USA)

Dave

Our German friend should realize that this 'little essay' is very opinionated and should not be taken as fact.

You do realize that he is asking for the thoughts and opinions of people spring the death penalty. By the very nature of the inquiry, the posts are going to be opinionated. I don't think the thread is on the validity of the death penalty but rather WHY some (particularly the majority) in the states have an opinion that many nations consider "barbaric."

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[Politico]

Here in America out Old Testament Xhristiansabsolutely LOVE all forms of punishment...the more punishing the better far as they're concerned

They're also deeply into schadenfreude, and blaming the victims whenever possible.

There's your answer, Kid.

About 20% of the USA suffers from Religousity Psychosis

Take your partisan blather elsewhere. This is the asshattery that I had hoped would stay out of this thread because the person here is asking for genuine insight rather than what you think others believe. It is obvious that you have no concept of why people support the death penalty.


Just as an example, I support the death penalty ant in a much more efficient way than currently applied (read faster) and I am not religious in any shape or form. The death penalty has absolutely zero to do with religion with many religious and non religious people on both sides of the issue.

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2

I'm not even sure what he is asking for. If it's why do we have the DP it's a culture thing. Not even sure why he cares.

 

[FA_Q2]

Here in America out Old Testament Xhristiansabsolutely LOVE all forms of punishment...the more punishing the better far as they're concerned

They're also deeply into schadenfreude, and blaming the victims whenever possible.

There's your answer, Kid.

About 20% of the USA suffers from Religousity Psychosis

Take your partisan blather elsewhere. This is the asshattery that I had hoped would stay out of this thread because the person here is asking for genuine insight rather than what you think others believe. It is obvious that you have no concept of why people support the death penalty.


Just as an example, I support the death penalty ant in a much more efficient way than currently applied (read faster) and I am not religious in any shape or form. The death penalty has absolutely zero to do with religion with many religious and non religious people on both sides of the issue.

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2

I'm not even sure what he is asking for. If it's why do we have the DP it's a culture thing. Not even sure why he cares.

Didn't you read the OP? Its for school and a comparison between Germany and the USA. I can't think of a better place to start than actually asking Americans.

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[Politico]

His post was hard to understand. The analysis is still correct. It's a culture thing.