Consider yourself graduating from school and learning the real practice of Christian faith in real life. That's the real deal.
On the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
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On the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
If you read carefully I didn’t say hell exists. I stated …
Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God'@
Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God@
You said the SIN of unforgiveness is the unforgiveable sin. That would mean you have no choice to forgive anybody for anything. Doesn't that flip the whole concept of asking for forgiveness on it's head? "You don't have to forgive me, but you will burn in hell if you don't" doesn't sound very penetant.Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God@
Yes the whole point is we have to agree to forgive in order to receive the same.
BULLDOG in that process of agreeing to forgive, all the other steps and conditions it takes are also involved.
That is why it takes such a struggle to accept and achieve. Especially if multiple wrongs or a whole history is involved.
This is so embattling and oppressive, that is why when you see people jumping for joy, crying or shouting and acting crazy for the Lord, some of the ones most lost in anger abuse or addiction who finally find spiritual freedom by forgiveness and no longer carrying all that baggage can be so grateful to be free, they go to extremes of expressing themselves without judgment. The people who beat themselves up the worst, or projected that onto others, can either be so glad and freed, knowing they are forgiven, that they can either become extremely humbled and not impose on others. Or they can become the very evangelical charismatic types that go out of their way to share and try to free more people, without worrying how crazy it may sound.
I have seen people react both ways when they first find liberation in the truth.
Forgiveness opens the door.
And yes, any issues or baggage tied to the problems or patterns also require the same process of forgiving and working out the details for resolution.
Lots of steps involved to resolve, correct and heal all the issues people carry and bring into our relationships.
I cannot predict or dictate what order people see for the steps. I can just support whatever steps or stages work for each person, and help walk each other through the process. It is like the 12 step recovery or the 5 stages of grief. The forgiveness process can be described in different ways, from 7 steps to 17. Each person has their own path and process. If we help each other move forward, instead of fight or criticize, it makes it easier to deal with the growing pains. In severe cases, it can be as painful as rebreaking a bone to reset it so it can heal properly. Broken hearts heal crooked all the time, or missing pieces, and it can be the hardest thing in the world to rebreak hearts before they can heal correctly. But after that, they won't break anymore. So it is worth the struggle. Just takes a leap of faith in forgiveness and the process will take us to a better place than where we were before, stuck in the past refusing to forgive. Anything is better than that!
Dear BULLDOGYou said the SIN of unforgiveness is the unforgiveable sin. That would mean you have no choice to forgive anybody for anything. Doesn't that flip the whole concept of asking for forgiveness on it's head? "You don't have to forgive me, but you will burn in hell if you don't" doesn't sound very penetant.Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God@
Yes the whole point is we have to agree to forgive in order to receive the same.
BULLDOG in that process of agreeing to forgive, all the other steps and conditions it takes are also involved.
That is why it takes such a struggle to accept and achieve. Especially if multiple wrongs or a whole history is involved.
This is so embattling and oppressive, that is why when you see people jumping for joy, crying or shouting and acting crazy for the Lord, some of the ones most lost in anger abuse or addiction who finally find spiritual freedom by forgiveness and no longer carrying all that baggage can be so grateful to be free, they go to extremes of expressing themselves without judgment. The people who beat themselves up the worst, or projected that onto others, can either be so glad and freed, knowing they are forgiven, that they can either become extremely humbled and not impose on others. Or they can become the very evangelical charismatic types that go out of their way to share and try to free more people, without worrying how crazy it may sound.
I have seen people react both ways when they first find liberation in the truth.
Forgiveness opens the door.
And yes, any issues or baggage tied to the problems or patterns also require the same process of forgiving and working out the details for resolution.
Lots of steps involved to resolve, correct and heal all the issues people carry and bring into our relationships.
I cannot predict or dictate what order people see for the steps. I can just support whatever steps or stages work for each person, and help walk each other through the process. It is like the 12 step recovery or the 5 stages of grief. The forgiveness process can be described in different ways, from 7 steps to 17. Each person has their own path and process. If we help each other move forward, instead of fight or criticize, it makes it easier to deal with the growing pains. In severe cases, it can be as painful as rebreaking a bone to reset it so it can heal properly. Broken hearts heal crooked all the time, or missing pieces, and it can be the hardest thing in the world to rebreak hearts before they can heal correctly. But after that, they won't break anymore. So it is worth the struggle. Just takes a leap of faith in forgiveness and the process will take us to a better place than where we were before, stuck in the past refusing to forgive. Anything is better than that!
www.curablehealth.com
I have practiced forgiveness. Anger, hatred and jealousy are negative emotions that do you more damage than good. My forgiveness doesn’t mean I am not careful around people who have caused me problems in the past.Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (and refuse to ask God's help with forgiveness which is always granted by asking), God does not forgive us.
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God's help to forgive where our will or ability falls short.
vasuderatorrent How this applies to you, as long as you choose a more secular approach rather than religious out of forgiveness and acceptance of differences, this doesn't cause harm or obstructions. However if you are rejecting things "due to unforgiveness" those problems you are not resolving will merely follow you into your chosen path or approach. Eventually any issues still have to be forgiven and resolved for any path to work. Changing paths or approaches is natural as we find the best way that works for us. But solving conflicts or differences still requires forgiveness, so that is why Christians teach that when we as human beings fail and will stay with our personal biases, it takes faith in God's higher love and truth to overcome our individual faults and biased conditions so we can be fair in treating others equally as ourselves. Christianity teaches that only Christ Jesus is that perfect, and by committing to let that Perfect Justice and Love lead the way, then we can overcome our own self interests and work with others as equal neighbors in that context.
You are just choosing to approach this secularly without religious conditions or rituals attached. But the same spiritual process of peace and justice still involves everyone as an equal and unique contributor to humanity.
The language does not matter as much as the common love of truth peace and justice for all humanity. As long as we receive each other in that spirit, it is the same spiritual process symbolized in the Bible.
We aren't talking about hell on all those other levels. We're talking about the level where you are on fire forever. If forgiveness between people isn't the deciding factor for that hell, then that just leaves God. After reading the bible, a lot, I've seen lots of places where a loving god, if he did exist, would have asked for forgiveness, but he never did. Clarify just who I'm required to forgive to not burn forever, and am I required to forgive without even being asked?Dear BULLDOGYou said the SIN of unforgiveness is the unforgiveable sin. That would mean you have no choice to forgive anybody for anything. Doesn't that flip the whole concept of asking for forgiveness on it's head? "You don't have to forgive me, but you will burn in hell if you don't" doesn't sound very penetant.Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God@
Yes the whole point is we have to agree to forgive in order to receive the same.
BULLDOG in that process of agreeing to forgive, all the other steps and conditions it takes are also involved.
That is why it takes such a struggle to accept and achieve. Especially if multiple wrongs or a whole history is involved.
This is so embattling and oppressive, that is why when you see people jumping for joy, crying or shouting and acting crazy for the Lord, some of the ones most lost in anger abuse or addiction who finally find spiritual freedom by forgiveness and no longer carrying all that baggage can be so grateful to be free, they go to extremes of expressing themselves without judgment. The people who beat themselves up the worst, or projected that onto others, can either be so glad and freed, knowing they are forgiven, that they can either become extremely humbled and not impose on others. Or they can become the very evangelical charismatic types that go out of their way to share and try to free more people, without worrying how crazy it may sound.
I have seen people react both ways when they first find liberation in the truth.
Forgiveness opens the door.
And yes, any issues or baggage tied to the problems or patterns also require the same process of forgiving and working out the details for resolution.
Lots of steps involved to resolve, correct and heal all the issues people carry and bring into our relationships.
I cannot predict or dictate what order people see for the steps. I can just support whatever steps or stages work for each person, and help walk each other through the process. It is like the 12 step recovery or the 5 stages of grief. The forgiveness process can be described in different ways, from 7 steps to 17. Each person has their own path and process. If we help each other move forward, instead of fight or criticize, it makes it easier to deal with the growing pains. In severe cases, it can be as painful as rebreaking a bone to reset it so it can heal properly. Broken hearts heal crooked all the time, or missing pieces, and it can be the hardest thing in the world to rebreak hearts before they can heal correctly. But after that, they won't break anymore. So it is worth the struggle. Just takes a leap of faith in forgiveness and the process will take us to a better place than where we were before, stuck in the past refusing to forgive. Anything is better than that!
I think you are mixing forgiveness between people, which involves physical debts and damages to other people, and forgiveness from God which is purely spiritual.
I am talking about the spiritual level.
Unforgiveness injures the person harboring it.
It causes stress, resentment and other negative impact on the mental energy, health, relations and ability to function.
This has nothing to do with any threat or force from other people. It is natural health and science that forgiveness is better for mental health and faster recovery from setbacks.
As for any person "trying to force you to forgive them" -- No. That isn't how it works. Again if people want to be forgiven, they have to forgive. Those who fully forgive and heal take responsibility for their actions and making peace with others.
Forgiveness for wrongs man does to other neighbors is different because this isn't just on a spiritual level between us and God. Forgiveness is still involved in correcting wrongs between neighbors, but that does not replace or cancel the need for physical reparations owed for debts or damages.
The "hell" that is self induced is repeating the same abusive patterns in an endless cycle of retribution and resentment until that cycle is broken by forgiveness and correction.
That happens by natural laws where people refuse to forgive each other and keep fighting to control or force the other their way.
The scenario you cite already involves the factor of refusing to forgive. So that is why that fails and perpetuates suffering.
The person doing the wrong has to forgive in order not to keep imposing such threats against another person.
Or it will go in circles, and yes that causes hell on any number of levels.
Forgiveness Is Not What You Think It Is
Dr. Fred Luskin the Director of the Standford University Forgiveness Project explains how most people don't understand forgiveness and the power 'unforgiveness' has over your mind and body.
Regardless of what is decided.......you can seek all the accolades you wish in the hope of seeking approval of other humanists, whether you choose to live by the words of the Holy Scriptures or not, these same words will judge you as they will judge everyone. (John 12:48).
I don't know what your experiences are or path is.We aren't talking about hell on all those other levels. We're talking about the level where you are on fire forever. If forgiveness between people isn't the deciding factor for that hell, then that just leaves God. After reading the bible, a lot, I've seen lots of places where a loving god, if he did exist, would have asked for forgiveness, but he never did. Clarify just who I'm required to forgive to not burn forever, and am I required to forgive without even being asked?Dear BULLDOGYou said the SIN of unforgiveness is the unforgiveable sin. That would mean you have no choice to forgive anybody for anything. Doesn't that flip the whole concept of asking for forgiveness on it's head? "You don't have to forgive me, but you will burn in hell if you don't" doesn't sound very penetant.Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God@
Yes the whole point is we have to agree to forgive in order to receive the same.
BULLDOG in that process of agreeing to forgive, all the other steps and conditions it takes are also involved.
That is why it takes such a struggle to accept and achieve. Especially if multiple wrongs or a whole history is involved.
This is so embattling and oppressive, that is why when you see people jumping for joy, crying or shouting and acting crazy for the Lord, some of the ones most lost in anger abuse or addiction who finally find spiritual freedom by forgiveness and no longer carrying all that baggage can be so grateful to be free, they go to extremes of expressing themselves without judgment. The people who beat themselves up the worst, or projected that onto others, can either be so glad and freed, knowing they are forgiven, that they can either become extremely humbled and not impose on others. Or they can become the very evangelical charismatic types that go out of their way to share and try to free more people, without worrying how crazy it may sound.
I have seen people react both ways when they first find liberation in the truth.
Forgiveness opens the door.
And yes, any issues or baggage tied to the problems or patterns also require the same process of forgiving and working out the details for resolution.
Lots of steps involved to resolve, correct and heal all the issues people carry and bring into our relationships.
I cannot predict or dictate what order people see for the steps. I can just support whatever steps or stages work for each person, and help walk each other through the process. It is like the 12 step recovery or the 5 stages of grief. The forgiveness process can be described in different ways, from 7 steps to 17. Each person has their own path and process. If we help each other move forward, instead of fight or criticize, it makes it easier to deal with the growing pains. In severe cases, it can be as painful as rebreaking a bone to reset it so it can heal properly. Broken hearts heal crooked all the time, or missing pieces, and it can be the hardest thing in the world to rebreak hearts before they can heal correctly. But after that, they won't break anymore. So it is worth the struggle. Just takes a leap of faith in forgiveness and the process will take us to a better place than where we were before, stuck in the past refusing to forgive. Anything is better than that!
I think you are mixing forgiveness between people, which involves physical debts and damages to other people, and forgiveness from God which is purely spiritual.
I am talking about the spiritual level.
Unforgiveness injures the person harboring it.
It causes stress, resentment and other negative impact on the mental energy, health, relations and ability to function.
This has nothing to do with any threat or force from other people. It is natural health and science that forgiveness is better for mental health and faster recovery from setbacks.
As for any person "trying to force you to forgive them" -- No. That isn't how it works. Again if people want to be forgiven, they have to forgive. Those who fully forgive and heal take responsibility for their actions and making peace with others.
Forgiveness for wrongs man does to other neighbors is different because this isn't just on a spiritual level between us and God. Forgiveness is still involved in correcting wrongs between neighbors, but that does not replace or cancel the need for physical reparations owed for debts or damages.
The "hell" that is self induced is repeating the same abusive patterns in an endless cycle of retribution and resentment until that cycle is broken by forgiveness and correction.
That happens by natural laws where people refuse to forgive each other and keep fighting to control or force the other their way.
The scenario you cite already involves the factor of refusing to forgive. So that is why that fails and perpetuates suffering.
The person doing the wrong has to forgive in order not to keep imposing such threats against another person.
Or it will go in circles, and yes that causes hell on any number of levels.
Forgiveness Is Not What You Think It Is
Dr. Fred Luskin the Director of the Standford University Forgiveness Project explains how most people don't understand forgiveness and the power 'unforgiveness' has over your mind and body.
Nope. I'm not going to let you tap dance and try to make out like I have some underlying trauma preventing me from accepting religion. I asked some legitimate questions. If you can't or won't answer them, then that's fine, but I thought you were above cheap misdirection.I don't know what your experiences are or path is.We aren't talking about hell on all those other levels. We're talking about the level where you are on fire forever. If forgiveness between people isn't the deciding factor for that hell, then that just leaves God. After reading the bible, a lot, I've seen lots of places where a loving god, if he did exist, would have asked for forgiveness, but he never did. Clarify just who I'm required to forgive to not burn forever, and am I required to forgive without even being asked?Dear BULLDOGYou said the SIN of unforgiveness is the unforgiveable sin. That would mean you have no choice to forgive anybody for anything. Doesn't that flip the whole concept of asking for forgiveness on it's head? "You don't have to forgive me, but you will burn in hell if you don't" doesn't sound very penetant.Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God@
Yes the whole point is we have to agree to forgive in order to receive the same.
BULLDOG in that process of agreeing to forgive, all the other steps and conditions it takes are also involved.
That is why it takes such a struggle to accept and achieve. Especially if multiple wrongs or a whole history is involved.
This is so embattling and oppressive, that is why when you see people jumping for joy, crying or shouting and acting crazy for the Lord, some of the ones most lost in anger abuse or addiction who finally find spiritual freedom by forgiveness and no longer carrying all that baggage can be so grateful to be free, they go to extremes of expressing themselves without judgment. The people who beat themselves up the worst, or projected that onto others, can either be so glad and freed, knowing they are forgiven, that they can either become extremely humbled and not impose on others. Or they can become the very evangelical charismatic types that go out of their way to share and try to free more people, without worrying how crazy it may sound.
I have seen people react both ways when they first find liberation in the truth.
Forgiveness opens the door.
And yes, any issues or baggage tied to the problems or patterns also require the same process of forgiving and working out the details for resolution.
Lots of steps involved to resolve, correct and heal all the issues people carry and bring into our relationships.
I cannot predict or dictate what order people see for the steps. I can just support whatever steps or stages work for each person, and help walk each other through the process. It is like the 12 step recovery or the 5 stages of grief. The forgiveness process can be described in different ways, from 7 steps to 17. Each person has their own path and process. If we help each other move forward, instead of fight or criticize, it makes it easier to deal with the growing pains. In severe cases, it can be as painful as rebreaking a bone to reset it so it can heal properly. Broken hearts heal crooked all the time, or missing pieces, and it can be the hardest thing in the world to rebreak hearts before they can heal correctly. But after that, they won't break anymore. So it is worth the struggle. Just takes a leap of faith in forgiveness and the process will take us to a better place than where we were before, stuck in the past refusing to forgive. Anything is better than that!
I think you are mixing forgiveness between people, which involves physical debts and damages to other people, and forgiveness from God which is purely spiritual.
I am talking about the spiritual level.
Unforgiveness injures the person harboring it.
It causes stress, resentment and other negative impact on the mental energy, health, relations and ability to function.
This has nothing to do with any threat or force from other people. It is natural health and science that forgiveness is better for mental health and faster recovery from setbacks.
As for any person "trying to force you to forgive them" -- No. That isn't how it works. Again if people want to be forgiven, they have to forgive. Those who fully forgive and heal take responsibility for their actions and making peace with others.
Forgiveness for wrongs man does to other neighbors is different because this isn't just on a spiritual level between us and God. Forgiveness is still involved in correcting wrongs between neighbors, but that does not replace or cancel the need for physical reparations owed for debts or damages.
The "hell" that is self induced is repeating the same abusive patterns in an endless cycle of retribution and resentment until that cycle is broken by forgiveness and correction.
That happens by natural laws where people refuse to forgive each other and keep fighting to control or force the other their way.
The scenario you cite already involves the factor of refusing to forgive. So that is why that fails and perpetuates suffering.
The person doing the wrong has to forgive in order not to keep imposing such threats against another person.
Or it will go in circles, and yes that causes hell on any number of levels.
Forgiveness Is Not What You Think It Is
Dr. Fred Luskin the Director of the Standford University Forgiveness Project explains how most people don't understand forgiveness and the power 'unforgiveness' has over your mind and body.
In general if there are people or groups you have trouble forgiving and treating with equal respect you want for yourself, that usually reflects areas that need work so you don't carry burdens that obstruct you.
A lot of people project their own personal issues onto political groups or figures they want to blame. But the real issues started before then.
Only you can determine what is healthy for you and what is detrimental.
If you like how you are happier talking and interacting with some people but not others, then ask yourself would you rather be as free to interact with all people the same way where it is comstructive and edifying?
Only you can answer that.
Everyone keeps some biases and isn't going to go through the trouble to reconcile with everyone. But if you focus on the people you are motivated to work ideas out with, that is usually enough to prioritize how far you want to go with forgiveness and resolving differences.
Usually if problems stand in the way of you more effectively communicating and working to achieve your goals or objectives, that is a signal to focus there.
I tend to focus on whatever causes me extreme stress or whatever motivates me to improve or change for the better.
Your priorities and path are going to be different. Whatever is causing you obstructions, problems or stress are usually the areas where unforgiven or unresolved issues are created deadlocks.
All those knots can be loosened up by figuring out where the attachments and conditions are being imposed, and trying to work backwards to undo the cause of clashing.
You should focus more on the journey and worry less about the destination.Nope. I'm not going to let you tap dance and try to make out like I have some underlying trauma preventing me from accepting religion. I asked some legitimate questions. If you can't or won't answer them, then that's fine, but I thought you were above cheap misdirection.I don't know what your experiences are or path is.We aren't talking about hell on all those other levels. We're talking about the level where you are on fire forever. If forgiveness between people isn't the deciding factor for that hell, then that just leaves God. After reading the bible, a lot, I've seen lots of places where a loving god, if he did exist, would have asked for forgiveness, but he never did. Clarify just who I'm required to forgive to not burn forever, and am I required to forgive without even being asked?Dear BULLDOGYou said the SIN of unforgiveness is the unforgiveable sin. That would mean you have no choice to forgive anybody for anything. Doesn't that flip the whole concept of asking for forgiveness on it's head? "You don't have to forgive me, but you will burn in hell if you don't" doesn't sound very penetant.Aren't there requirements for forgiveness? Can a person expect to be forgiven if he doesn't acknowledge the reason he needs forgiveness, or attempt to make ammends? What about if he continues to do what ever it was, should he expect forgiveness anyway?Dear Batcat cc vasuderatorrentOn the chance there is a hell obviously you don’t want to end up there.
Some say there is only one unforgivable sin.
Unforgivable sins? Here's a list
Q: What is the unforgivable sin? -- B., via e-mail
In the Christian Scriptures, there are three verses that take up the subject of unforgivable sin. In the Book of Matthew (12: 31-32), we read, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
The same idea that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable is found in Luke 12:10 and Mark 3:29.
What constitutes such blasphemy is not so clear, but generally the idea is that rejecting God and God's good news for salvation is the most radical and thorough rejection a person can make, and thus it separates the blasphemer most profoundly from the community of faith. This is not so much a punishment for the sinner as it is a fact about the sinner's willful rejection of God's grace.
The way I understand what makes blasphemies against the Holy Spirit "unforgiveable in this world or the next" is these involve the sin of Unforgiveness.
The Bible clearly instructs if we forgive others, God forgives us. But where we fail to forgive (ie asking God's help with forgiveness, God does not forgive us).
The blasphemies about denying God or Jesus are still the forgiveable type mentioned in the passages PROVIDED this is done with forgiveness.
What makes it impossible for God to forgive and help correct is if we REFUSE forgiveness.
This sin of unforgiveness prevents God's grace truth and will from entering our minds hearts relations and lives. It shuts God out because God respects our free will to consciously choose to receive and trust in God's will.
No one, not even God, can force someone to forgive against our will. We either have to agree for it to work, or actively seek God@
Yes the whole point is we have to agree to forgive in order to receive the same.
BULLDOG in that process of agreeing to forgive, all the other steps and conditions it takes are also involved.
That is why it takes such a struggle to accept and achieve. Especially if multiple wrongs or a whole history is involved.
This is so embattling and oppressive, that is why when you see people jumping for joy, crying or shouting and acting crazy for the Lord, some of the ones most lost in anger abuse or addiction who finally find spiritual freedom by forgiveness and no longer carrying all that baggage can be so grateful to be free, they go to extremes of expressing themselves without judgment. The people who beat themselves up the worst, or projected that onto others, can either be so glad and freed, knowing they are forgiven, that they can either become extremely humbled and not impose on others. Or they can become the very evangelical charismatic types that go out of their way to share and try to free more people, without worrying how crazy it may sound.
I have seen people react both ways when they first find liberation in the truth.
Forgiveness opens the door.
And yes, any issues or baggage tied to the problems or patterns also require the same process of forgiving and working out the details for resolution.
Lots of steps involved to resolve, correct and heal all the issues people carry and bring into our relationships.
I cannot predict or dictate what order people see for the steps. I can just support whatever steps or stages work for each person, and help walk each other through the process. It is like the 12 step recovery or the 5 stages of grief. The forgiveness process can be described in different ways, from 7 steps to 17. Each person has their own path and process. If we help each other move forward, instead of fight or criticize, it makes it easier to deal with the growing pains. In severe cases, it can be as painful as rebreaking a bone to reset it so it can heal properly. Broken hearts heal crooked all the time, or missing pieces, and it can be the hardest thing in the world to rebreak hearts before they can heal correctly. But after that, they won't break anymore. So it is worth the struggle. Just takes a leap of faith in forgiveness and the process will take us to a better place than where we were before, stuck in the past refusing to forgive. Anything is better than that!
I think you are mixing forgiveness between people, which involves physical debts and damages to other people, and forgiveness from God which is purely spiritual.
I am talking about the spiritual level.
Unforgiveness injures the person harboring it.
It causes stress, resentment and other negative impact on the mental energy, health, relations and ability to function.
This has nothing to do with any threat or force from other people. It is natural health and science that forgiveness is better for mental health and faster recovery from setbacks.
As for any person "trying to force you to forgive them" -- No. That isn't how it works. Again if people want to be forgiven, they have to forgive. Those who fully forgive and heal take responsibility for their actions and making peace with others.
Forgiveness for wrongs man does to other neighbors is different because this isn't just on a spiritual level between us and God. Forgiveness is still involved in correcting wrongs between neighbors, but that does not replace or cancel the need for physical reparations owed for debts or damages.
The "hell" that is self induced is repeating the same abusive patterns in an endless cycle of retribution and resentment until that cycle is broken by forgiveness and correction.
That happens by natural laws where people refuse to forgive each other and keep fighting to control or force the other their way.
The scenario you cite already involves the factor of refusing to forgive. So that is why that fails and perpetuates suffering.
The person doing the wrong has to forgive in order not to keep imposing such threats against another person.
Or it will go in circles, and yes that causes hell on any number of levels.
Forgiveness Is Not What You Think It Is
Dr. Fred Luskin the Director of the Standford University Forgiveness Project explains how most people don't understand forgiveness and the power 'unforgiveness' has over your mind and body.
In general if there are people or groups you have trouble forgiving and treating with equal respect you want for yourself, that usually reflects areas that need work so you don't carry burdens that obstruct you.
A lot of people project their own personal issues onto political groups or figures they want to blame. But the real issues started before then.
Only you can determine what is healthy for you and what is detrimental.
If you like how you are happier talking and interacting with some people but not others, then ask yourself would you rather be as free to interact with all people the same way where it is comstructive and edifying?
Only you can answer that.
Everyone keeps some biases and isn't going to go through the trouble to reconcile with everyone. But if you focus on the people you are motivated to work ideas out with, that is usually enough to prioritize how far you want to go with forgiveness and resolving differences.
Usually if problems stand in the way of you more effectively communicating and working to achieve your goals or objectives, that is a signal to focus there.
I tend to focus on whatever causes me extreme stress or whatever motivates me to improve or change for the better.
Your priorities and path are going to be different. Whatever is causing you obstructions, problems or stress are usually the areas where unforgiven or unresolved issues are created deadlocks.
All those knots can be loosened up by figuring out where the attachments and conditions are being imposed, and trying to work backwards to undo the cause of clashing.
Sage advice. Because we are all worm food. So try to enjoy the one life you have to live.
