Empire of Japan attacks America, this day in 1941

[Polishprince]

Today in History: In 1941, Japan attacks Pearl Harbor

Today is Thursday, Dec. 7, the 341st day of 2023. There are 24 days left in the year.

santamariatimes.com

On the morning of December 7th, the Japanese pulled a Pearl Harbor job in the US territory of Hawaii.

They laughed about the devious attack until the 1980's, I remember Mr. Fuji laughing on TV "We fooled you stupid Americans in Pearl Harbor, and we will do the same to capture the WWF tag team belts".


But in reality, it was the fault of the ultraliberal Roosevelt, who should have seen the devious look in the eyes of these fiends and realized that Pearl Harbor in Honolulu was the idea site to pull a Pearl Harbor job.

 

[1srelluc]

 

[JGalt]

If one was a "conspiracy theorist", they would say "On this day in 1941, the Lizard People launched a successful attack on Pearl Harbor, killing 2,335 servicemen and 68 civilians. The attack thrust the USA into WW2, creating a new wartime economy and world government authority."

But I'm not a "conspiracy theorist" and don't believe in "lizard people." If you don't believe me, just ask luiza.

She knows.

 

[BlindBoo]

They laughed about the devious attack until the 1980's

They weren't laughing in Aug of 1945 after the sleeping giant turned whole cities into cinders were they?

 

[lg325]

I expect another Pearl Harbor along with another 911 to come real soon .

 

[protectionist]

Now, in 2023, the most important thing to take note of is that just as the Japs did in 1941, Hamas could do the same thing, and on a much larger scale. They could hit a dozen or more US cities, with Oct 7 type attacks. This is especially true for blue cities, where people walk around unarmed from strict gun control laws, and the Democrat population tend to mimimize the jihadist threat.

 

[protectionist]

I expect another Pearl Harbor along with another 911 to come real soon .

It seems almost undeniable.

 

[toobfreak]

On the morning of December 7th, the Japanese pulled a Pearl Harbor job in the US territory of Hawaii. But in reality, it was the fault of the ultraliberal Roosevelt, who should have seen the devious look in the eyes of these fiends and realized that Pearl Harbor in Honolulu was the idea site to pull a Pearl Harbor job.

Actually, as I recall, the real fault for Pearl Harbor laid with the commander who ignored the radar warnings. The radar operator on that day contacted his commander to report that he was getting a large echo return coming their way, which was the Japanese fleet of airplanes coming, but instead, the commander dismissed it as a false signal, a flock of birds or some such thing, our own people, etc., and told them to ignore it. Apparently things were low key that day and he didn't want any excitement. Had he responded, America could have scrambled their own planes and likely averted the disaster.

 

[toobfreak]

Actually, as I recall, the real fault for Pearl Harbor laid with the commander who ignored the radar warnings. The radar operator on that day contacted his commander to report that he was getting a large echo return coming their way, which was the Japanese fleet of airplanes coming, but instead, the commander dismissed it as a false signal, a flock of birds or some such thing, our own people, etc., and told them to ignore it. Apparently things were low key that day and he didn't want any excitement. Had he responded, America could have scrambled their own planes and likely averted the disaster.

Here is an article I found which goes into some of the details:

What happened to the officer who ignored the radar warning at Pearl Harbor

In the aftermath of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, there was plenty of blame to go around in the U.S. Navy. At first, Adm. Husband J. Kimmel caught

www.wearethemighty.com

 

[protectionist]

Actually, as I recall, the real fault for Pearl Harbor laid with the commander who ignored the radar warnings. The radar operator on that day contacted his commander to report that he was getting a large echo return coming their way, which was the Japanese fleet of airplanes coming, but instead, the commander dismissed it as a false signal, a flock of birds or some such thing, our own people, etc., and told them to ignore it. Apparently things were low key that day and he didn't want any excitement. Had he responded, America could have scrambled their own planes and likely averted the disaster.

Just as liberals are now calling conservatives "paranoid", about an imminent Hamas attack inside the US.

Hamas are the Japs of 2023/2024. Especially with the wide open Mexican border.

 

[toobfreak]

Just as liberals are now calling conservatives "paranoid", about an imminent Hamas attack inside the US.
Hamas are the Japs of 2023/2024. Especially with the wide open Mexican border.

Nothing is more worrisome that when democrats tell you that you have nothing to fear and that they are just here to help you.

 

[BlindBoo]

Actually, as I recall, the real fault for Pearl Harbor laid with the commander who ignored the radar warnings. The radar operator on that day contacted his commander to report that he was getting a large echo return coming their way, which was the Japanese fleet of airplanes coming, but instead, the commander dismissed it as a false signal, a flock of birds or some such thing, our own people, etc., and told them to ignore it. Apparently things were low key that day and he didn't want any excitement. Had he responded, America could have scrambled their own planes and likely averted the disaster.

Kermit Tyler’s experiences as a fighter pilot in World War II were similar to many other fighter pilots who served in the Pacific theater, with one notable exception—on the morning of December 7, 1941 he was the officer in charge of the air information center at Fort Shafter on O’ahu who mistook the radar image of an incoming wave of Japanese attack aircraft for a flight of B-17 bombers he expected from the US mainland

Kermit Tyler: A Call That Would Live in Infamy | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

On December 7, 1941, Kermit Tyler was called about aircraft approaching Pearl Harbor and told the radar tech not to worry about it. His reply has been debated for the past 80 years.

www.nationalww2museum.org

Kermit Tyler’s turn to learn this new technology came during the first week of December 1941. At 4:00 a.m. on Wednesday, December 3, Tyler arrived for his first four-hour shift in the information center. Officially, his job there was to assist the controllers in vectoring pursuit aircraft to meet any identified incoming enemy threats, however, he was really there to learn about this new process and how it worked. Though he had received a brief orientation in mid-November, Tyler received no training before, during, or after his first shift and nothing of note occurred during that first four hours. Therefore, when Tyler showed up to work his second shift at 4:00 a.m. on Sunday, December 7, 1941, he had no reason to think that morning would be any different. How wrong he was.

 

[Polishprince]

Actually, as I recall, the real fault for Pearl Harbor laid with the commander who ignored the radar warnings. The radar operator on that day contacted his commander to report that he was getting a large echo return coming their way, which was the Japanese fleet of airplanes coming, but instead, the commander dismissed it as a false signal, a flock of birds or some such thing, our own people, etc., and told them to ignore it. Apparently things were low key that day and he didn't want any excitement. Had he responded, America could have scrambled their own planes and likely averted the disaster.

Radar was pretty much cutting edge technology at the time, and discerning what a threat was could be difficult. My old man was involved in WW2 and he related stories of standing out in the snow in Newfoundland waiting on a Kraut attack because of the radar.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Japan didn't have the radar system until the post-war era, only relying on scout planes in the Pacific War. The US enjoyed a technological advantage in sea battles in the later stage of the war, such as Midway, which was no surprise because of the radar. Yamamoto planned to pull off another Pearl Harbor at Midway but it didn't work.

 

[whitehall]

The Carriers were conveniently out to sea and the outdated Battleships were parked seemingly as targets. COS Marshall had the decoded Japanese message in his hand for hours and he finally sent a lame telegram warning Pearl Harbor that arrived at the same time as the Japanese attack. Marshall was credited with a near photographic memory but for some reason he couldn't remember where he was on the night before the Day of Infamy. MacArthur had done his duty as COS and retired but was recalled by FDR for some reason to be the commander of the area most likely to be invaded. He had about a day to ready his troops for the inevitable attack but his entire air force was shot to hell parked wing to wing on the ground and the war plan was never enacted.

 

[toobfreak]

Radar was pretty much cutting edge technology at the time, and discerning what a threat was could be difficult.

Yes it was and the USA had a big hand in developing it, in fact, our radar given to England was in large part what helped them keep Hitler out, but in this case, it was mainly a case of inexperience--- the people on duty that day were basically trainees who were not experienced in how to interpret radar images. Pearl Harbor was a comedy of inexperience, lack of proper communication and lucky happenstance.

 

[Mushroom]

Actually, as I recall, the real fault for Pearl Harbor laid with the commander who ignored the radar warnings.

Would not really have mattered.

The RADAR station first detected the aircraft at 7:02 AM. And notified headquarters at 7:20 AM. The fighters first arrived at 7:40.

Twenty minutes is not enough time to have done a damned thing to change the outcome.

Even if the reports from the USS Ward about attacking a submarine at 6:45 were taken seriously, that likely would not have changed the outcome.

Japan attacked with over 350 aircraft, and it takes between four to six hours to get a Battleship from a cold start. The only battleship operating boilers at the time of the attack was the USS Nevada (BB-36) which was at the end of the column and was not connected to local power. Because of that they had to maintain at least one of their two boilers operational at all time, and just happened to have started the procedure to change off boilers so both were still lit when the attack started.

That is why that was the only battleship to move during the attack. Even if warned by the RADAR, it would have made no difference as none of them were capable of doing anything different than they already did.

 

[whitehall]

When Brit experts visited Washington after Pearl Harbor they were shocked that there was no national intelligence network or espionage network in place in the aging FDR administration. Strangely enough the U.S. government in the mid 20th century relied on rumors and racial profiles to judge the Japanese military. The logical conclusion is that the FDR invited the Japanese attack assuming that it would be a minor situation that could convince citizens to support a real war in Europe.

 

[toobfreak]

Would not really have mattered.

Well, perhaps in the 20-40 minutes they might have had warning then, maybe they could have sounded alarms and order all to abandon ship and at least some lives could have been saved.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Actually, as I recall, the real fault for Pearl Harbor laid with the commander who ignored the radar warnings. The radar operator on that day contacted his commander to report that he was getting a large echo return coming their way, which was the Japanese fleet of airplanes coming, but instead, the commander dismissed it as a false signal, a flock of birds or some such thing, our own people, etc., and told them to ignore it. Apparently things were low key that day and he didn't want any excitement. Had he responded, America could have scrambled their own planes and likely averted the disaster.

You are partially right. But it wasn’t a commanding officer, it was a low ranking officer of the day who had no idea how radar worked and had a peacetime mindset. Even if he had called an alert, all the Army fighters were lined up in neat rows with empty fuel tanks and no ammo in their guns. The ammo was all locked up, most of it in ammo depots in remote locations where it wouldn’t damage anything if it blew up. It was also Sunday morning before duty hours so most of the aircraft maintainers, ordnance troops and truck drivers were off duty, asleep and in many cases still drunk from partying Saturday night.

The radar operators spotted the incoming strike at 0702 and reported it slightly later. The actual air strike started at 0758 about thirty minutes after the duty officer declined to sound the alert. That wouldn’t have allowed any fighters time to be fueled and armed. Only fourteen American fighters got aloft and they were from remote fields. The two most effective were Lieutenants Welch and Taylor who got airborne from the Haleiwa strip used for gunnery training. Their P-40s only had ammo for the thirty caliber wing guns between then they got two kills and a damage.

The only benefit of a successful alert would have been to give the Navy time to man it’s AA guns and unlock the magazines and ready use ammo lockers on the ships.