Electric Car Sales Double

[Mr. H.]

This is cool...

Protean Electric rolls towards making in-wheel electric motors a reality

Yahoo!

Each motor pushes 100-hp and features a monstrous 739 lb.-ft. of torque—a figure Protean claim to be the "highest torque density of any of today’s leading electric drive systems." With a weight of 75 lbs. per motor and a regenerative braking system that recovers 85-percent of kinetic energy, the whole unit fits within a conventional 18-inch wheel.

 

[bianco]

This is cool...

Protean Electric rolls towards making in-wheel electric motors a reality

Yahoo!

Each motor pushes 100-hp and features a monstrous 739 lb.-ft. of torque—a figure Protean claim to be the "highest torque density of any of today’s leading electric drive systems." With a weight of 75 lbs. per motor and a regenerative braking system that recovers 85-percent of kinetic energy, the whole unit fits within a conventional 18-inch wheel.

It certainly is cool.
Aren't engineers just brilliant.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

I was not big on electric cars ... at first. They are making me eat crow, now!

 

[Old Rocks]

This is cool...

Protean Electric rolls towards making in-wheel electric motors a reality

Yahoo!

Each motor pushes 100-hp and features a monstrous 739 lb.-ft. of torque—a figure Protean claim to be the "highest torque density of any of today’s leading electric drive systems." With a weight of 75 lbs. per motor and a regenerative braking system that recovers 85-percent of kinetic energy, the whole unit fits within a conventional 18-inch wheel.

Electric Mini: 0-60 in 4 Seconds: It Has Motors In Its Wheels : TreeHugger


Justin Thomas
Transportation / Cars
August 30, 2006


A British engineering firm has put together a high-performance hybrid version of BMW's Mini Cooper. The PML Mini QED has a top speed of 150 mph, a 0-60 mph time of 4.5 seconds. The car uses a small gasoline engine with four 160 horsepower electric motors — one on each wheel. The car has been designed to run for four hours of combined urban/extra urban driving, powered only by a battery and bank of ultra capacitors. The QED supports an all-electric range of 200-250 miles and has a total range of about 932 miles (1,500 km). For longer journeys at higher speeds, a small conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) is used to re-charge the battery. In this hybrid mode, fuel economies of up to 80mpg can be achieved.

Looks like this experimental car is moving into mainstream. Would love to covert my big van to this system. Acres of room underneath for batteries, could be a very long range EV.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh boy. Chinese. Fellows, we either start catching up with the Asian nations in graduating engineers and funding innovation, or we start sucking the hind tit for a couple of generations.

 

[Old Rocks]

Nor am I dinging the Chinese. Kudus to them for this development. But I would much rather see our nation at the forefront of technology. And we are rapidly being left in the dust because of our educational system and timidity in experimenting with advanced technology. We invented the net, yet our net is a couple of generations behind that of South Korea. We invented cell phones, yet our system is a couple of generations behind that in Europe. See the pattern?

 

[Mr. H.]

Oh boy. Chinese. Fellows, we either start catching up with the Asian nations in graduating engineers and funding innovation, or we start sucking the hind tit for a couple of generations.

I just finished watching a PBS doc about Silicon Valley, Robert Noyce, Intel, etc. Very cool. They all managed to attract talent and capital, so what's the problem today?

 

[Old Rocks]

I really don't know. We invented the net. We went to the moon. We invented cell phones. And now, we see people constantly damning people like Elon Musk, who has created a distributed solar utility, a paying private space company, and one of the best cars in the world, which also happens to be an EV. Instead of cheering that we have leadership in that field, they never fail to damn him and his cars. Why? Because it is a leading innovation?

Seems to be an unnerving lack of imaginations at all levels in this nation.

 

[Old Rocks]

I was not big on electric cars ... at first. They are making me eat crow, now!

Yep. And as the batteries get cheaper, with an order of magnitude more capacity, they are going to get really interesting. Many of the engineering constraints of the ICE will be gone, and the designs can be a lot more imaginative.

 

[Mr. H.]

I really don't know. We invented the net. We went to the moon. We invented cell phones. And now, we see people constantly damning people like Elon Musk, who has created a distributed solar utility, a paying private space company, and one of the best cars in the world, which also happens to be an EV. Instead of cheering that we have leadership in that field, they never fail to damn him and his cars. Why? Because it is a leading innovation?

Seems to be an unnerving lack of imaginations at all levels in this nation.

Well with re: to Silicon Valley's products, there was... demand.

 

[Politico]

I was not big on electric cars ... at first. They are making me eat crow, now!

Not sure why. They have always been cool.

 

[initforme]

WHile I don't see electric cars booming yet, I do like the wave of smaller cars on the market and I see an increase in the numbers of those little huggers on the road even where I live which gets snowfalls of 4 inches plus commonly. THOSE little cars hug the road like my 4 wheel drive F150. For college kids, the fuel efficiency is awesome too. No matter how much oil we produce in this country, the big lie is that the more oil we create ourselves the lower the gas prices. THat is just a bunch of bunk. Big oil is going to make their incredible profits and if we produce fifty million times the oil we do now, mark my words, gas prices stay where they are. So owning one of these little cars might be the wave of the future.

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh boy. Chinese. Fellows, we either start catching up with the Asian nations in graduating engineers and funding innovation, or we start sucking the hind tit for a couple of generations.

I just finished watching a PBS doc about Silicon Valley, Robert Noyce, Intel, etc. Very cool. They all managed to attract talent and capital, so what's the problem today?

Serious problem.. The core cause of our national slide into technological irrevelence.
I know you didn't want the long version -- but it's my top cause in life right now.. Sat on a regional tech council panel about a year ago -- and here's the bullet items...

1) Tech investment lost tons of credibility in the mid to late 90s as the "internet boom" grew a bubble. I watch more Jaguar/Ferrari/Rolls dealers spring up per square mile in Silicon Valley than any place outside of Dubai.. Biggest fraudulent transfer of wealth in my lifetime.

2) As a result of the 90s tech bubble, investors learned that HARDWARE based products are largely more expensive and more risky than SOFTWARE based products.. ((kinda contraindicated by the recent evidence, but nonetheless its true))

3) We completely blew up the domestic supply chain for national technology development by off-shoring. It's like an eco-system.. You muck with a couple species and the whole chain is endangered. We HAD the piece parts to build almost ANYTHING. With adequate engineering support from LOCAL manufacturers. I'm talking about the resistors, capacitors, image sensors, motors, switches, packaging, displays, semiconductor parts, printed circuits, etc.. ALL GONE NOW...

4) We convinced our sons and daughters that the SAFE HAVEN for them during Globalization was to shun the tech and hard sciences and go get an MBA.. The story was that we would "allow" the rest of the world to dirty their hands doing the manufacturing --- but that we needed more logistics, economic modeling, and management to control everything remotely.. NOW -- it's hard to find a Smith or Rogers or Jones enrolled in graduate level science and engineering.

5) The damn MBAs took over the Silicon Valley startups. No more TJ Rogers or Noyce's.. And they "OPTIMIZED" the customer bases for the products. Discovered that 2% of the customers ordered 80% of the product.. So they SLASHED applications engineering and sales and customer support. If you don't IMMEDIATELY WANT 1,000,000 pieces of something --- you're SOL... So much for start-ups with a fabulous idea getting any help from vendors.

6) As regards Silicon Valley in particular -- the power outages of the 90s, higher taxes and onerous regulation took its toll.. Couldn't get local PCB boards made economically any more. Intel got tired of losing $8Mill in product when the lights went out.. Housing prices went out of sight, traffic got unbearable and many of us LEFT for better environments.

The ONLY THING that makes a country relevent in a Global Economy is either INNOVATION and TECH or Natural Resources. We're circling the drain and almost down the tubes. And if WE DON'T get OUR KIDS into the right curriculums, and get capital to flow to the right places --- the lights are gonna go out all over this country..

 

[Shrimpbox]

The technology parts are so neat for the curious, gets you thinking, and am all for it. But technology for nasty batteries gets way more press than technology for diesels. Small diesels from VW and others eat the EVs lunch with 50-60 miles per gallon with almost zero pollution. And poor EVs also have the worst resale values of any vehicles. The market has spoken.

 

[Old Rocks]

Keep dreaming boys. And it is good to dream. However, so long as the cost of EV's is as high as it is forget huge growth. They are the playthings of the well to do and will be for many a year.

Just save the hyperbole.

$20,000 EV.

2014 Chevy Spark EV | Electric Vehicle | Chevrolet

 

[Old Rocks]

Protean Electric Putting Electric Hub Motors into Production Chinese VW Next Year ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

This past year, we called out 10 of 2013′s most-promising new technologies, and alongside stuff such as super plastics, fancy batteries, and precipitation-dodging headlights sat the ever-production-elusive electric hub motor. Specifically, we spoke to a Protean Electric design that actually appeared as if it might see the light of day; it turns out that we were on the right track. The Michigan-based company has announced that it will begin producing hub motors next year in China, and that it is building an electric driveline for an EV to be sold by Volkswagen’s Chinese partner, FAW-Volkswagen.

The new EV, to be based on the FAW-Volkswagen New Bora compact sedan, will utilize a pair of rear-mounted Protean hub motors. Each wheel’s unit makes 100 horsepower, and all of the control electronics are packaged inside the motors. Of course, the motors’ most important stat is weight—the more poundage, the more unsprung weight vehicle engineers must contend with—and Protean claims each one weighs 75 pounds. That’s a lot of extra unsprung weight to wreak havoc on ride and handling, but Protean previously conducted tests with Lotus Engineering that proved regular folks wouldn’t notice any difference.

We remain skeptical, but not as skeptical as we are about the benefits of installing hub motors in an entry-level vehicle like the Bora. The hoopla surrounding hub motors—the reason design students the world over keep doodling them into their designs—has everything to do with enhanced vehicle packaging. Moving the driveline to the wheels frees up real estate for passengers, cargo, safety cages, and so on, not to mention adding untold flexibility to vehicle architectures.

 

[Old Rocks]

A lot of very intelligent people working on this.

NREL: Continuum Magazine - Electric Vehicle Battery Development Gains Momentum

CAEBAT collaboration targets EDV batteries with longer range and lifespan, at a lower cost.
Enlarge image
NREL's modeling, simulation, and testing activities include battery safety assessment, next-generation battery technologies, material synthesis and research, subsystem analysis, and battery second use studies.
Photo by Dennis Schroeder, NREL

"When people get behind the wheel of an electric car, it should be a great driving experience. Period." Dr. Taeyoung Han, GM technical fellow, said, "Battery performance is vital in meeting drivers' expectations."

Electric-drive vehicles (EDVs) promise to curb greenhouse gas emissions and slash America's need for imported oil. However, designing high-performance, cost-effective, and safe energy storage systems can present considerable challenges.

Batteries, which are typically some of the most expensive EDV components, power the motor and other electrical systems, while storing grid-fed energy as well as kinetic energy from regenerative braking. To appeal to drivers, electric cars need to have a range of 250 to 300 miles between charges, placing greater pressure on the vehicles' battery packs.

At the same time, for EDVs to gain meaningful market share, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has determined that battery costs need to be cut from $400-$600 per kilowatt hour (kWh) to $125/kWh, and battery lifespan needs to be extended to 15 years from its current eight years.

Increase the storage by a factor of four, cut the cost by half, and the batteries are where they will compete head to head with ICE's and win, hands down.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh boy. Chinese. Fellows, we either start catching up with the Asian nations in graduating engineers and funding innovation, or we start sucking the hind tit for a couple of generations.

I just finished watching a PBS doc about Silicon Valley, Robert Noyce, Intel, etc. Very cool. They all managed to attract talent and capital, so what's the problem today?

Serious problem.. The core cause of our national slide into technological irrevelence.
I know you didn't want the long version -- but it's my top cause in life right now.. Sat on a regional tech council panel about a year ago -- and here's the bullet items...

1) Tech investment lost tons of credibility in the mid to late 90s as the "internet boom" grew a bubble. I watch more Jaguar/Ferrari/Rolls dealers spring up per square mile in Silicon Valley than any place outside of Dubai.. Biggest fraudulent transfer of wealth in my lifetime.

2) As a result of the 90s tech bubble, investors learned that HARDWARE based products are largely more expensive and more risky than SOFTWARE based products.. ((kinda contraindicated by the recent evidence, but nonetheless its true))

3) We completely blew up the domestic supply chain for national technology development by off-shoring. It's like an eco-system.. You muck with a couple species and the whole chain is endangered. We HAD the piece parts to build almost ANYTHING. With adequate engineering support from LOCAL manufacturers. I'm talking about the resistors, capacitors, image sensors, motors, switches, packaging, displays, semiconductor parts, printed circuits, etc.. ALL GONE NOW...

4) We convinced our sons and daughters that the SAFE HAVEN for them during Globalization was to shun the tech and hard sciences and go get an MBA.. The story was that we would "allow" the rest of the world to dirty their hands doing the manufacturing --- but that we needed more logistics, economic modeling, and management to control everything remotely.. NOW -- it's hard to find a Smith or Rogers or Jones enrolled in graduate level science and engineering.

5) The damn MBAs took over the Silicon Valley startups. No more TJ Rogers or Noyce's.. And they "OPTIMIZED" the customer bases for the products. Discovered that 2% of the customers ordered 80% of the product.. So they SLASHED applications engineering and sales and customer support. If you don't IMMEDIATELY WANT 1,000,000 pieces of something --- you're SOL... So much for start-ups with a fabulous idea getting any help from vendors.

6) As regards Silicon Valley in particular -- the power outages of the 90s, higher taxes and onerous regulation took its toll.. Couldn't get local PCB boards made economically any more. Intel got tired of losing $8Mill in product when the lights went out.. Housing prices went out of sight, traffic got unbearable and many of us LEFT for better environments.

The ONLY THING that makes a country relevent in a Global Economy is either INNOVATION and TECH or Natural Resources. We're circling the drain and almost down the tubes. And if WE DON'T get OUR KIDS into the right curriculums, and get capital to flow to the right places --- the lights are gonna go out all over this country..

Here in the Silicon Forest things are still going well. And we have plenty of power and are installing more wind and solar on a daily basis. With the hydro base, our future is bright, both for the power and the technology.

 

[flacaltenn]

I just finished watching a PBS doc about Silicon Valley, Robert Noyce, Intel, etc. Very cool. They all managed to attract talent and capital, so what's the problem today?

Serious problem.. The core cause of our national slide into technological irrevelence.
I know you didn't want the long version -- but it's my top cause in life right now.. Sat on a regional tech council panel about a year ago -- and here's the bullet items...

1) Tech investment lost tons of credibility in the mid to late 90s as the "internet boom" grew a bubble. I watch more Jaguar/Ferrari/Rolls dealers spring up per square mile in Silicon Valley than any place outside of Dubai.. Biggest fraudulent transfer of wealth in my lifetime.

2) As a result of the 90s tech bubble, investors learned that HARDWARE based products are largely more expensive and more risky than SOFTWARE based products.. ((kinda contraindicated by the recent evidence, but nonetheless its true))

3) We completely blew up the domestic supply chain for national technology development by off-shoring. It's like an eco-system.. You muck with a couple species and the whole chain is endangered. We HAD the piece parts to build almost ANYTHING. With adequate engineering support from LOCAL manufacturers. I'm talking about the resistors, capacitors, image sensors, motors, switches, packaging, displays, semiconductor parts, printed circuits, etc.. ALL GONE NOW...

4) We convinced our sons and daughters that the SAFE HAVEN for them during Globalization was to shun the tech and hard sciences and go get an MBA.. The story was that we would "allow" the rest of the world to dirty their hands doing the manufacturing --- but that we needed more logistics, economic modeling, and management to control everything remotely.. NOW -- it's hard to find a Smith or Rogers or Jones enrolled in graduate level science and engineering.

5) The damn MBAs took over the Silicon Valley startups. No more TJ Rogers or Noyce's.. And they "OPTIMIZED" the customer bases for the products. Discovered that 2% of the customers ordered 80% of the product.. So they SLASHED applications engineering and sales and customer support. If you don't IMMEDIATELY WANT 1,000,000 pieces of something --- you're SOL... So much for start-ups with a fabulous idea getting any help from vendors.

6) As regards Silicon Valley in particular -- the power outages of the 90s, higher taxes and onerous regulation took its toll.. Couldn't get local PCB boards made economically any more. Intel got tired of losing $8Mill in product when the lights went out.. Housing prices went out of sight, traffic got unbearable and many of us LEFT for better environments.

The ONLY THING that makes a country relevent in a Global Economy is either INNOVATION and TECH or Natural Resources. We're circling the drain and almost down the tubes. And if WE DON'T get OUR KIDS into the right curriculums, and get capital to flow to the right places --- the lights are gonna go out all over this country..

Here in the Silicon Forest things are still going well. And we have plenty of power and are installing more wind and solar on a daily basis. With the hydro base, our future is bright, both for the power and the technology.

Yeah? Going great huh... How many new startups per year? How many gone public in the last decade? Actually manufacuring stuff up in "the forest?? Beside medicinal bud?

Whats the annual venture capital outlay for your forest? If its 10% of the Silicon valley boom years, id be impressed.

 

[GHook93]

A lot of very intelligent people working on this.

NREL: Continuum Magazine - Electric Vehicle Battery Development Gains Momentum

CAEBAT collaboration targets EDV batteries with longer range and lifespan, at a lower cost.
Enlarge image
NREL's modeling, simulation, and testing activities include battery safety assessment, next-generation battery technologies, material synthesis and research, subsystem analysis, and battery second use studies.
Photo by Dennis Schroeder, NREL

"When people get behind the wheel of an electric car, it should be a great driving experience. Period." Dr. Taeyoung Han, GM technical fellow, said, "Battery performance is vital in meeting drivers' expectations."

Electric-drive vehicles (EDVs) promise to curb greenhouse gas emissions and slash America's need for imported oil. However, designing high-performance, cost-effective, and safe energy storage systems can present considerable challenges.

Batteries, which are typically some of the most expensive EDV components, power the motor and other electrical systems, while storing grid-fed energy as well as kinetic energy from regenerative braking. To appeal to drivers, electric cars need to have a range of 250 to 300 miles between charges, placing greater pressure on the vehicles' battery packs.

At the same time, for EDVs to gain meaningful market share, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has determined that battery costs need to be cut from $400-$600 per kilowatt hour (kWh) to $125/kWh, and battery lifespan needs to be extended to 15 years from its current eight years.

Increase the storage by a factor of four, cut the cost by half, and the batteries are where they will compete head to head with ICE's and win, hands down.

We can only hope. The electric car is in it's first generation. Funny I was listening to the history channel about the 100 inventions that changed the world. They mentioned the microwave. I believe they stated it came out in the 30s or 40s. The first microwaves cost $5K!!! That would be way too expensive for todays standard, but imagine that price tag in 30-40s!!!

I digress, first gen is always every expensive and not as efficient as needed. 2nd gen the price comes down and efficiency usu hits means or exceeds current technology. 3rd gen the price becomes competitive to the mainstream market and efficiency blows away current tech.

1st Gen: Price is high and gas motor is better 2010-2016
2nd Gen Estimates: Price around $45-$65K, but average 300 mpc. 2016-2022
3rd Gen Estimates: Price around $20-$30K and have average charge of 400 mpc 2022-2030
Replacement: by 2028 there will be ZERO gas power cars sold at dealerships. Gas stations will be replace with energy stations, with maybe one or two gas pumps at primo prices.


Funny thing is Natural Gas will be the stationary source fueling the revolution.