Dylann Roof: Poster Child For The Death Penalty or Not

[Russ Alllah Gehry]

I wonder if killing a member of law enforcement is much worse than a mass shooting in a house of worship. I wonder if it is wrong to punish people with death, even if one is against killing. Is the state killing somebody the same thing as a person killing another?

All good questions, more emphasis is put on the killing of law enforcement because they have the onus of having to confront someone who is willing to kill them... and no one who is against killing is compelled by the government against their will to kill anyone, even in times of war...Not if the "someone" committed murder.

Then there is the ideology and philosophical motives of this Mr Roof

Not mention the motives of those who like to point to his skin color and religion

He bragged about shooting up Black Christians in their house of worship

 

[Frankeneinstein]

What about anti black Christian?

What about them?...Try going after them in the same viscous liberal manner to find out...I knew it was only a matter of time before your argument fell so completely apart that you would need "THE BLACK SHIELD"

 

[Russ Alllah Gehry]

No one said it was worse. A cop killer deserves the death penalty.

Please do not hijack this thread, No one is talking about that shit

 

[Pogo]

Conservative White Christian Hate Criminal and Mass Shooter Dylann Roof is an interesting case for a discussion of the death penalty.

It does indeed. Good point.

An asshole arms up, barges into a church, starts picking people off, intentionally lets one or two live specifically so they can relate what they witnessed, and then fully admits to it. No question he did the deed. The question of executing someone who might be innocent doesn't apply.

Now the remaining question becomes -- does the State have the right to take a life. I say no. Because no one gets that. Once you start waiving that, Pandora opens her box.

 

[Syriusly]

Conservative White Christian Hate Criminal and Mass Shooter Dylann Roof is an interesting case for a discussion of the death penalty.

I actually agree.

So let me put forth my thoughts on the death penalty.

I am not morally opposed to the death penalty. I don't think the death penalty does anything to reduce crime but I do think that it is a fitting punishment.

If I could be certain that every person condemned to death was guilty of the crime of murder that he or she was convicted of- I would be okay with them being executed.

But- and here is why I oppose the death penalty- our justice system is neither blind- or perfect. We make mistakes. Too many convicted murderers on death row have been proven innocent of their crime later. And there is no taking back an execution.

So that brings me back to Dylan Roof. The evidence appears to be overwhelming- and if it is so- then I have no issue theoretically with him receiving the death penalty.

But all convictions of murder should be based on 'overwhelming' evidence- evidence 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. We don't have a 'pretty sure' category of conviction.

So according to the law, Roof will be no more proven guilty than the last death row inmate released because his verdict of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt was found to be incorrect.

I would prefer we have no executions rather than execute a single innocent man or woman. A person held in prison for 20 or 30 years can still be released if found innocent later- but not someone executed.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

He bragged about shooting up Black Christians in their house of worship

What does that have to do with those who point out his skin color and religion? who did he brag to?

 

[OldLady]

What about anti black Christian?

What about them?...Try going after them in the same viscous liberal manner to find out...I knew it was only a matter of time before your argument fell so completely apart that you would need "THE BLACK SHIELD"

If it makes you feel better, Roof was hoping to start a race war, so he must consider himself a soldier, and therefore willing to give his life in the Cause. He said he was surprised he didn't have to shoot himself when he left the church, so sure he was that the cops would already be waiting for him. So he is prepared to die.

 

[Pete7469]

Conservative White Christian Hate Criminal and Mass Shooter Dylann Roof is an interesting case for a discussion of the death penalty.

Why?


Assuming he's guilty, which I can do with enough certainty that I'd flip the switch, he should have been shot before he managed to hurt someone else but that isn't how it worked this time.

I'll be happy when he dies at the hand of the state, just as I'm happy when violent criminals are killed when they hit acute victim selection failure.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

If it makes you feel better, Roof was hoping to start a race war, so he must consider himself a soldier, and therefore willing to give his life in the Cause. He said he was surprised he didn't have to shoot himself when he left the church, so sure he was that the cops would already be waiting for him. So he is prepared to die.

Why do you assume that I need to feel better, I don't...and what does any of that have to do with my posts?...Your post would have been better directed at those who want know his motive and philosophical thinking...so if you don't mind I will use it try and fill in the blanks for them while of course giving you full credit.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

It is important to define as precisely as possible, what Dylann sees himself as. He committed a serious crime with some serious ideological and philosophical motives.

Here ya go!

Courtesy of "old lady":

If it makes you feel better, Roof was hoping to start a race war, so he must consider himself a soldier, and therefore willing to give his life in the Cause. He said he was surprised he didn't have to shoot himself when he left the church, so sure he was that the cops would already be waiting for him. So he is prepared to die.

 

[OldLady]

If it makes you feel better, Roof was hoping to start a race war, so he must consider himself a soldier, and therefore willing to give his life in the Cause. He said he was surprised he didn't have to shoot himself when he left the church, so sure he was that the cops would already be waiting for him. So he is prepared to die.

Why do you assume that I need to feel better, I don't...and what does any of that have to do with my posts?...Your post would have been better directed at those who want know his motive and philosophical thinking...so if you don't mind I will use it try and fill in the blanks for them while of course giving you full credit.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your meaning.

 

[JoeMoma]

I am for frying him; however, when we consider the court costs of the multiple appeals and that he will he will get to sit on death roll for 20 to 40 years anyway, I have no problem with locking up for life with no chance for parole.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

If it makes you feel better, Roof was hoping to start a race war, so he must consider himself a soldier, and therefore willing to give his life in the Cause. He said he was surprised he didn't have to shoot himself when he left the church, so sure he was that the cops would already be waiting for him. So he is prepared to die.

Why do you assume that I need to feel better, I don't...and what does any of that have to do with my posts?...Your post would have been better directed at those who want know his motive and philosophical thinking...so if you don't mind I will use it try and fill in the blanks for them while of course giving you full credit.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your meaning.

It wasn't the meaning that was misinterpreted, I was just the wrong poster for that interpretation to be directed at..I took care of it

 

[Fenton Lum]

It's wrong to kill, so to punish you for killing, we're gonna kill ya.

I know, its like; It's wrong to detain and hold someone against there will, so to punish you, we're going to lock you up...its just so crazy.

Kill him, fine with me.

That was easy

He's not worth any effort at all. Murder away.

 

[Fenton Lum]

It's wrong to kill, so to punish you for killing, we're gonna kill ya.

I know, its like; It's wrong to detain and hold someone against there will, so to punish you, we're going to lock you up...its just so crazy.

Kill him, fine with me.

Of course it is, he's a "conservative white christian"

If you think so.

 

[Correll]

It is important to define as precisely as possible, what Dylann sees himself as. He committed a serious crime with some serious ideological and philosophical motives.

Did he?

Or are you just pretending he did to smear your enemies?

IMO, this is a poor test case. Too much possibility of extenuating mental illness.


Plenty of more clear cut cases of murderers killing in vile manners for petty reasons, justifying the maximum penalty.


But, yes, if this man is found sane, fry him.

 

[martybegan]

Conservative White Christian Hate Criminal and Mass Shooter Dylann Roof is an interesting case for a discussion of the death penalty.

It does indeed. Good point.

An asshole arms up, barges into a church, starts picking people off, intentionally lets one or two live specifically so they can relate what they witnessed, and then fully admits to it. No question he did the deed. The question of executing someone who might be innocent doesn't apply.

Now the remaining question becomes -- does the State have the right to take a life. I say no. Because no one gets that. Once you start waiving that, Pandora opens her box.

Hang em' high.

Some crimes call for the ultimate punishment. this idiot would get 3 hots and a cot, and unless put in supermax will be the bell of the ball with the Aryan Brotherhood in prison.

Some may say put him in gen pop with the brothers, but that is the same as a death sentence, only its outside the law.

Death row, 10 years of appeals, needle, done.

 

[Pogo]

Conservative White Christian Hate Criminal and Mass Shooter Dylann Roof is an interesting case for a discussion of the death penalty.

It does indeed. Good point.

An asshole arms up, barges into a church, starts picking people off, intentionally lets one or two live specifically so they can relate what they witnessed, and then fully admits to it. No question he did the deed. The question of executing someone who might be innocent doesn't apply.

Now the remaining question becomes -- does the State have the right to take a life. I say no. Because no one gets that. Once you start waiving that, Pandora opens her box.

Hang em' high.

Some crimes call for the ultimate punishment. this idiot would get 3 hots and a cot, and unless put in supermax will be the bell of the ball with the Aryan Brotherhood in prison.

Some may say put him in gen pop with the brothers, but that is the same as a death sentence, only its outside the law.

Death row, 10 years of appeals, needle, done.

If anyone deserved a DP, I'd agree this guy certainly should be first in line. No argument there.

My point is that we can't go around saying "no one can take a life", and then go "the State can take a life". It's inconsistent. Once we do that we have redefined what 'life' means at a heavy discount, and it's not at all a reach to start making more exceptions.

In a State-mandated DP the State merely becomes another murderer. What after all is the moral difference between me murdering the guy who killed my child, and the State doing it?

 

[Pogo]

It is important to define as precisely as possible, what Dylann sees himself as. He committed a serious crime with some serious ideological and philosophical motives.

Did he?

Or are you just pretending he did to smear your enemies?

IMO, this is a poor test case. Too much possibility of extenuating mental illness.


Plenty of more clear cut cases of murderers killing in vile manners for petty reasons, justifying the maximum penalty.


But, yes, if this man is found sane, fry him.

I don't think his motives are relevant. The end result is what's relevant.

Study the motives and how they led to the event, if they did, sure. And that's one more argument against the DP. But murder is murder. That's what he's convicted of, and rightly so.

The only exception I can see to considering a motive would be euthenasia. But that's a completely different animal, unrelated to murder.

 

[martybegan]

Conservative White Christian Hate Criminal and Mass Shooter Dylann Roof is an interesting case for a discussion of the death penalty.

It does indeed. Good point.

An asshole arms up, barges into a church, starts picking people off, intentionally lets one or two live specifically so they can relate what they witnessed, and then fully admits to it. No question he did the deed. The question of executing someone who might be innocent doesn't apply.

Now the remaining question becomes -- does the State have the right to take a life. I say no. Because no one gets that. Once you start waiving that, Pandora opens her box.

Hang em' high.

Some crimes call for the ultimate punishment. this idiot would get 3 hots and a cot, and unless put in supermax will be the bell of the ball with the Aryan Brotherhood in prison.

Some may say put him in gen pop with the brothers, but that is the same as a death sentence, only its outside the law.

Death row, 10 years of appeals, needle, done.

If anyone deserved a DP, I'd agree this guy certainly should be first in line. No argument there.

My point is that we can't go around saying "no one can take a life", and then go "the State can take a life". It's inconsistent. Once we do that we have redefined what 'life' means at a heavy discount, and it's not at all a reach to start making more exceptions.

In a State-mandated DP the State merely becomes another murderer. What after all is the moral difference between me murdering the guy who killed my child, and the State doing it?

Life can be taken, but there has to be a very good, and very legally sound reason for it.

And no, a State sanctioned execution is not Murder (but it is a homicide). The very legal nature of the execution makes it not murder, or manslaughter, or any other crime involving the death of another. Just as killing in war is not considered murder, nor is legal killing by police officers in the line of duty, or by civilians when properly exercising their right to self defense.