Dresden in 1945

[Deadstick]

Both Al Qaeda and the Taliban were variations of Islamic Jihad.
Same league, different teams within.

The Taliban are domestic fighters most Pashtun they have not liked their land being invaded for centuries, they defeated two British expaditionary forces in the 19th century and early 20th century.

 

[fncceo]

I preferred Catch-22..

I would never read anything that questions the morality of war.

 

[Deadstick]

NATO is basically a creation of the USA, meant to integrate the military of member nations in co-ordination to block what was Soviet Russia and Warsaw Pact threat of attack upon Western Europe.
Those European members of NATO have done quit a bit of weapons making and marketing on their own, BTW.

Nato was formed five years before the Warsaw pact, the Warsaw pact have been gone for decades, so WTF is Nato for?

 

[fncceo]

It described the efforts of Allied scientists to destroy a German dam regardless of collateral damage of every living thing below the dam

In the words of the warrior poet, Will Smith

 

[Stryder50]

The RAF targeted civilians. The USAAF targeted industrial plants. Given the technology of the times, they also killed a lot of civilians since the Germans located their industrial plants in cities. The Germans deliberately targeted civilians all throughout the war. The only time they didn't was in the early phase of the BoB when the Germans targeted the RAF airfields and Chain Home radar stations in an effort to secure air superiority for the planned invasion. When that failed the Germans went back to terror bombing civilians. Railways couldn't be knocked out by airpower in WWII. Any damage could be repaired in hours or days at most. Even if the railways could have been damaged or destroyed, the oh so civilized Germans would simply have driven the Jews to the camps on foot a bayonet point.

The RAF early on realized their bombers lacked adequate protection from fighter attacks and the bombers also didn't have the equipment for an real "precision bombing". Hence resorted to night missions for the bombers and that meant area bombing of a general target.

The USAAF thought that with the Norden bomb-sight they could perform "Precision Bombing" ~ 'drop the bomb into a pickle barrel from 30,000 feet'. Turns out not quite so precise. USAAF bombers were better armed for fending off fighter attacks, though they still needed to have friendly fighter escorts as well. And USAAF daylight bombing usually could remain somewhat concentrate on the target, if the weather was clear, still in the large formations they flew, there was quite a bit of spill over out of the target area.

Railways can be knocked out significantly if hitting the marshaling yards. Post bombing photo show such. Biggest problem for Germany was scrounging up the steel and making replacement rails from it. Plus scrounge up the labor and wooden ties, etc. If all those ducks got in a row, might take weeks to months to rebuild, depending on extent of damage. Not to mention that often some locomotives and rolling stock would be destroyed as well. Destroying rail yards was more for sake of constricting movement of troops, weapons, and material.

 

[Stryder50]

Nato was formed five years before the Warsaw pact, the Warsaw pact have been gone for decades, so WTF is Nato for?

But the Russian army was still very large and threatening during those years while occupying Eastern Europe. Also it took a while for the European members to build up much military component for NATO. Initially it was to also facility USA basing and logistics in Western Europe, since for many Years the major military units of NATO were USA.

 

[Mushroom]

At the time we were far from the most powerful nation in military terms. Especially with regard to the size of or Army and Air Forces compared to the other belligerents of the time.

At the start of the war, most of the nations were pretty equal when it comes to their equipment. In fact, most of the Axis powers were actually more advanced there as they had started to invest in things like that much earlier than the Allied Powers did. The only real difference was the size of the military based upon their individual populations, and how many personnel they could logistically support.

At the start of the war, Germany and France were pretty much the strongest by far. Both with large and modern military forces, and very short logistical trains from their base of supply to their forward forces. England was not far behind, but being an island it made their logistics more challenging. Japan would have had a similar problem, but they had already spent almost half a century building up forces and logistical capability on Asia, so their only challenge was supporting their remote soldiers and bringing goods back to Japan.

The US had mostly space, as none of the Axis powers was ever in a position to actually attack them directly. That allowed them the time to build up the logistics they needed to move against the Axis Powers. Plus they had a lot of space, which allowed them to place a lot of their war industry in remote locations deep inside the country. And that was when the US for the first time really did become a "military powerhouse". Before the war the nation was one of the world leaders when it comes to both raw materials and manufactured goods. Which is natural, since it had always been a mercantile nation. And it was staggering what could be done when that industry is turned almost 100% into war production.

Before the war even began, the US was already the largest exporter of oil, iron and steel, vehicles, machinery, and food. But in reality had a rather small and poorly equipped military. Hell, in that aspect Japan was way ahead of the US. Their only biwing aircraft was the E11A "Laura", which was a recon aircraft and not intended for combat. The Japanese Navy was almost entirely a modern monowing force several years before the war even began. Meanwhile, the US only retired the last of their biwing combat aircraft in 1941. The nations the US was fighting starting in 1942 had some of the best equipment in the world at the time, almost nobody doubts that. Meanwhile the US "got off the dime" rather late, and often had to rely upon sheer mass of numbers to make up for the lesser quality.

In 1941, unquestionably the US was in 4th or 5th place, only up for grabs with the Soviet Union for last. But the advantage that worked in their favor was they already had some great equipment on the drawing boards or in production at the time. The USS Iowa for example, laid down in 1940. But it would not enter service until 1943. Or the USS Essex, laid down in 1941 and entering service on the last day of 1942. It was only during that war that the US became a real military power. And their most famous equipment like the B-24 and B-29 came out after the war started.

 

[Stryder50]

The Taliban are domestic fighters most Pashtun they have not liked their land being invaded for centuries, they defeated two British expaditionary forces in the 19th century and early 20th century.

The Pushtun fighters of 19th-20th century were not "Taliban". They were Islamic though. And Islamic Jihad has been a concept and goal for Islam the past 1400 years. Until all of humanity are Moslem.

The Taliban are an Islamic faction organized and equip by the Pakistani ISI, with weapons left over USA efforts in the 1980s to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

The problem the USA faced post 9/11 was that to defeat the Taliban means needing to deal with the ISI and about half of Pakistan that would support them. No one was ready to expand the war into Pakistan to that degree.

 

[Mushroom]

The RAF early on realized their bombers lacked adequate protection from fighter attacks and the bombers also didn't have the equipment for an real "precision bombing". Hence resorted to night missions for the bombers and that meant area bombing of a general target.

And that was common military doctrine if attempting to bomb defended targets. That is why the majority of German bomber raids on England happened at night also. And that even dates back to WWI, when the 51 attacks by Germany against England in WWI with Zeppelins were also conducted at night.

 

[Mushroom]

The Taliban are an Islamic faction organized and equip by the Pakistani ISI, with weapons left over USA efforts in the 1980s to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

Actually, that is not really true. Other than REDEYES and early generation STINGERS, what the US primarily sent was food and medical supplies. The rest of the military equipment was primarily AK-47s and ammo. Something the Taliban had no problem in getting their hands on. The Soviets left a lot of military equipment behind when they pulled out, and Soviet era weapons are readily available internationally.

And what STINGERS they had left by that time would have been completely useless. The BCUs that are required to operate them (Battery Cooling Unit) only have a shelf life of around two or three years. So they could have had a thousand of those laying around, but without BCUs they are only paperweights. That is why most third world forces use old Soviet equipment like the SA-7. They only require a battery, and not the liquid argon that the STINGER requires to operate.

That is why you had organizations like al-Qaeda develop techniques in the early 1990s to take down aircraft with volley firing of RPG-7s. Those were plentiful and easy to get their hands on. The Battle of Mogadishu did not have helicopters shot down with MANPADS, but with anti-tank rockets. Because by then, any MANPADS they could have gotten their hands on in Afghanistan would have been completely useless. Without the liquid argon in the BCU, the seeker heads would have been completely unable to track a target. And when the US was in Afghanistan, every attack upon their aircraft was conducted not by MANPADS but RPGs.

 

[Mushroom]

The Pushtun fighters of 19th-20th century were not "Taliban". They were Islamic though. And Islamic Jihad has been a concept and goal for Islam the past 1400 years. Until all of humanity are Moslem.

And to touch on this again, as most people are amazingly ignorant of Afghanistan and the groups there, both in the past and today.

In Afghanistan in 2001 you had two major groups fighting a civil war. And labeling either of them "Pushtun" is rather silly to be honest.

One one side you had the Taliban, radical Islamists who wanted to install a theocracy. And a lot of them were actually foreigners, like Mustafa Hamid, Osama bin Laden, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, and thousands of others. The split between what would become the two major groups was already forming during the Afghan-Soviet War. As the secular Mujahedeen resented the "radical Islamist foreigners" flocking to join in the fight, so most of them in turn banded together into what would become the Taliban.

Then on the other hand you had the Northern Alliance. This group was almost entirely Afghan (other than a small number of advisors and not fighters), and is actually where most of the Mujahedeen fighters rallied around when the civil war broke out. They were supporters of a modern secular Afghanistan. With the main philosophy being "Islamic Democracy", believing that both Islam and Democracy can exist. And that while being an important aspect of their life, Islam should not be the rule of a nation. Not unlike the majority of nations that are recognized as say "Catholic". A lot of "Christian Nations" have huge Catholic populations, but very few want to see any kind of theocracy rule their lives.

And the Northern Alliance in most ways still lives on. Now called the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan, under the leadership of the son of the man that led the Northern Alliance.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nato was formed five years before the Warsaw pact, the Warsaw pact have been gone for decades, so WTF is Nato for?

In 2012 I would have agreed with you. But Russia’s actions have shown that NATO or something like it is necessary.

 

[0311]

Yes, and over 30,000 were killed in the London Blitz/ The point is what, exactly? Of course, never mind that Dresden was a major manufacturing and transit center.

The old, An Eye For An Eye. Nice how all you so-called "Right to Life" types quickly hypocrites at the drop of a hat.

 

[Stryder50]

Actually, that is not really true. Other than REDEYES and early generation STINGERS, what the US primarily sent was food and medical supplies. The rest of the military equipment was primarily AK-47s and ammo. Something the Taliban had no problem in getting their hands on. The Soviets left a lot of military equipment behind when they pulled out, and Soviet era weapons are readily available internationally.

And what STINGERS they had left by that time would have been completely useless. The BCUs that are required to operate them (Battery Cooling Unit) only have a shelf life of around two or three years. So they could have had a thousand of those laying around, but without BCUs they are only paperweights. That is why most third world forces use old Soviet equipment like the SA-7. They only require a battery, and not the liquid argon that the STINGER requires to operate.

That is why you had organizations like al-Qaeda develop techniques in the early 1990s to take down aircraft with volley firing of RPG-7s. Those were plentiful and easy to get their hands on. The Battle of Mogadishu did not have helicopters shot down with MANPADS, but with anti-tank rockets. Because by then, any MANPADS they could have gotten their hands on in Afghanistan would have been completely useless. Without the liquid argon in the BCU, the seeker heads would have been completely unable to track a target. And when the US was in Afghanistan, every attack upon their aircraft was conducted not by MANPADS but RPGs.

And most of this was because of a Texas Congressman by name of Charlie Wilson. While many may know of the movie, it was based on a more detailed and informative book. Main point being that to help the Afghani's defeat the Soviet occupation during the 1980s, Charlie and partners chose to supply Soviet style weapons as much as possible to easy integration with what might be captured by the mujahedin.

Charlie Wilson's War: The Extraordinary Story of the Largest Covert Operation in History - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Stingers came in towards the end, to break the deadlock of the Soviet Hind's attack helicopters.

Mil Mi-24 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A footnote here relates to the 1996 crash of TWA Flight 800 off of Long Island New York. A few dozen plus witnesses from ground perspective claimed to have seen a fast 'streak' from ground upward towards the aircraft before the explosion. The following link will chronicle some of that. It should be noted that most of the "ground" witnesses were out on the water, it being a warm Summer day ideal for boating. If it was a MANPAD type anti-aircraft missile, a Stinger would be the most likely given the altitude of intercept. So perhaps those who fired such acquired a BCU from somewhere.

Interestingly, there was another 747 scheduled to take off at the same time frame, this an Israeli Air-El flight, so some speculation is the wrong aircraft would have been fired at.

BTW, the APU for that model 747 is located under the center fuel tank and it's heated exhaust points directly down, making a huge heat image for the missile to lock onto.

The official investigation was that the empty center fuel tank had enough vapors for an electrical short inside to have set such off, caused the explosion. Maybe, but ...
Not long after that event I had to change a fuel pump in my Wife's LTD. Bitch was we had just filled the tank when the pump went out. The pump is located to the upper rear, almost against the back of the backseat, so had to drain as much fuel as I could siphon, to lighten it and using jacks lower it down to reach the pump. Now the interesting thing is the portion where the wiring connects to the pump was inside the fuel tank. And contact tabs for the wires result with exposed metal. Got me wondering how come there weren't a bunch of LTD's exploding due to spark/arching of the fuel point wiring contacts inside the fuel tank. Gasoline has a much lower flash point than kerosene~jet fuel.

TWA Flight 800 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

And to touch on this again, as most people are amazingly ignorant of Afghanistan and the groups there, both in the past and today.

In Afghanistan in 2001 you had two major groups fighting a civil war. And labeling either of them "Pushtun" is rather silly to be honest.

One one side you had the Taliban, radical Islamists who wanted to install a theocracy. And a lot of them were actually foreigners, like Mustafa Hamid, Osama bin Laden, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, and thousands of others. The split between what would become the two major groups was already forming during the Afghan-Soviet War. As the secular Mujahedeen resented the "radical Islamist foreigners" flocking to join in the fight, so most of them in turn banded together into what would become the Taliban.

Then on the other hand you had the Northern Alliance. This group was almost entirely Afghan (other than a small number of advisors and not fighters), and is actually where most of the Mujahedeen fighters rallied around when the civil war broke out. They were supporters of a modern secular Afghanistan. With the main philosophy being "Islamic Democracy", believing that both Islam and Democracy can exist. And that while being an important aspect of their life, Islam should not be the rule of a nation. Not unlike the majority of nations that are recognized as say "Catholic". A lot of "Christian Nations" have huge Catholic populations, but very few want to see any kind of theocracy rule their lives.

And the Northern Alliance in most ways still lives on. Now called the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan, under the leadership of the son of the man that led the Northern Alliance.

Note I was replying to deadstick's post and he inserted the Pushtan.
However, since the Taliban is largely based in that region of Western Pakistan/Eastern Afghanistan, a mountainous area referred to as the Pushtan, the reference isn't that far off.

In the 1980's the Northern Alliance is who Wilson and the CIA would rather have worked with, but with Soviet occupation between the South and North, and no "friendly" nations on northern border of Afgahnistan access to the Northern Alliance was difficult to near impossible.

I encourage reading Crile's book. Very informative and insightful.

BTW, it's been my finding that in the vacuum of the Soviet retreat, the ISI, Pakistan's version of a CIA, chose to support the Taliban as their faction to seize control in Afghanistan.

Inter-Services Intelligence - Wikipedia​

 

[Stryder50]

Nato was formed five years before the Warsaw pact, the Warsaw pact have been gone for decades, so WTF is Nato for?

NATO continues for the same reason it was formed.
To be a counter-point to Russian aggression.

 

[zaangalewa]

Stryder50

Eh?

 

[zaangalewa]

NATO is basically a creation of the USA, meant to integrate the military of member nations in co-ordination to block what was Soviet Russia and Warsaw Pact threat of attack upon Western Europe.
Those European members of NATO have done quit a bit of weapons making and marketing on their own, BTW.

The USA under their high traitor Donald Trump left the defense alliance NATO. But likes to be the leader of the NATO. Not the best situation now. Specially also because the USA fights against the international court.

And the USA misused their influence in the NATO as their most important single member in many cases to take care that Germany (and Europe) always will be military helpless without the USA. I remember for example when in context of the so called "Weimarer Dreieck" (the Weimar Triangle) a short time after the reunion of Germany (Germany is a sovereign country only since 35 years) we tried to make first steps to a European army, which we would need now. We tried to let find a better coordination between the French army, the German army and the Polish army. The USA stopped this project with the influence of the NATO by saying "Only the NATO will defend Europe".

The NATO made in general also not everything well but sometimes also very heavy mistakes under a wrong influence of the USA - for example when Germany transformed their army in a kind of worldwide active operational force. So we stopped our compulsory military service. This is not good now, because we need much more soldiers and other weapon systems. No need to say that the USA disappointed Germany very hard in Afghanistan.

So even in a time when the USA still had been the leading nation of the West the USA made heavily wrong decisions because of their own felt needs (for example the illegal war in Iraq) and by interpreting totally wrong the real dangers in the world.

The strange thing: Never needed the USA the NATO and Europe more than now. And never the USA fought harder against Europe. Trump is like a kind of negative sparkler on the Chistmas tree. He sparkles darkness instead of light. Trump not knows what to defend.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Thanks,

Yes, simple and irrefutable facts are anathema to this brainwashed gaggle of "Hollywood educated" Holocaustian cult members.

What else can you expect when you're dealing with individuals too dumb to know that the Allies used propaganda too.

America's wartime propaganda ministry was the O.W.I. (Office of War Information).
Today, since the beginning of the Gaza Genocide, Hollywood is desperately churning out fictitious Holocaust fodder so dear to small minded anti German bigots.

Right down there with the fictitious "human skin lampshades", shrunken heads, "human skin pocketbooks" etc is the "Homicidal Gas Chamber" and infamous "vaporizer" (1)

View attachment 1079209
The Holocaust Industry was lying then just as it is lying today.





(1). "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"

https://www.kultur.lu.se/media/utbildning/dokument/kurser/SASH65/20171/Auschwitz__Myths_and_Facts.pdf

EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales." CONTINUED

The reaganut zombies do the same thing with regan,go by whst thier corrupt school system and Hollywood taught them.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Hey, Dummy, Why not make it "6 Trillion Jews"?

Is there any moronic fable you won't believe?

Even Jewish sources debunk your "6 million Jews" scam.


"Was there Really a Holocaust?"

WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST

cdn.preterhuman.net

EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED

Come back when you've got something other than profitable Holocaust fairy tales.

Him and mushroom are paid shills from Langley,they endorse the Warren commission so that speaks volumns of their credibility.