Does raising the minimum wage reduce poverty?

[Theowl32]

If the answer is no, and I'm pretty sure it is, then why have a minimum wage at all? If you raise the minimum wage to $15 all you're doing is ensuring that any job worth less than that won't exist legally, and that means unskilled people will have less job opportunities and less possibilities for expanding their value in the market. Grown people should not be inhibited by the government when it comes to their ability to negotiate their own labor. It's immoral, patronizing and it doesn't actually achieve its intended effect. It does ensure less jobs and less business opportunities though.

The minimum wage is well-intentioned, and our economy can survive despite it, but all it really does is limit the people that are worth the least. The impact a $15/hr minimum wage would have on the job market, particularly in more rural states, is no doubt massive. I consider myself left wing. I support a lot of left wing ideas. This is not one of them though. There shouldn't be a minimum wage. It's not actually helping poor people. I think it's bad for everybody.

No, it causes inflation, unemployment to rise and destroys the middle class.

But

The ignorant don't understand this. Funny, how a few years ago the typical hollywood leftists all chanted for higher minimum wage.

Then...

When they found out that it crippled a legendary theater that had been there for years, those same stupid leftist millionaires sung a different tune.

L.A. Actors Protest Union Plan For Minimum Wage At 99-Seat Theaters

Armed with picket signs and the support of such recognizable stars as Tim Robbins and Helen Mirren, some 350 people marched Monday afternoon a mile-long route to the North Hollywood office of the Actors’ Equity Association to protest the union’s proposal that would require small theaters to pay...

deadline.com

Now, the commiefornia is utterly wiping out any and all trace of small business owners or aspirations by raising minimum wage to more than 17 dollars an hour.

And so.....


Rent rises to 4000 dollars a month a 1 bedroom apartment.

Don't worry though. Candycorn lives along a rising ocean cause her dandy husband makes enough money where they can afford to and coyote lives in a log cabin with good wifi.

 

[struth]

In Podunk, Iowa it does.

In New York City, it doesn't.

no it doesn’t in either place

 

[struth]

there is no reason for a Govt dictated labor price mandate

all it does is drives up UE and the cost to do business, therein price is goods and services

 

[Devils_Advocate]

You think there will be jobs that just don't get done? That's just goofy.

At this time there are many openings and so few people filling them, so yeah there are jobs not getting done…

 

[22lcidw]

Short term it helps them. I don’t think it fixes anything long-term.

We have the poverty/poverty servicing complex. Police, firefighters, medical squads, childrens services, free hospital services, and everything else related. Plus all of the government free money programs for everything to be corrupted. The government responds by increasing taxes, fees and fines in every way possible. Hidden revenue enhancers all over the place. A penny here, a penny there and it costs. Why the hell do we need to send hundreds of billions of dollars on child care and trillions when women have been tricked to go into the workforce. Who benefits are lesbians like Rapino. And millions of others suffer for it.

 

[DudleySmith]

Actually it's proof of what we say. Correct, very few are making minimum wage today, and prior to this labor shortage very few made MW back then; something like 2.5% of the workforce. But the reason we fought a $15.00 minimum wage was to avoid what we're experiencing today. We have a labor shortage because people were conditioned to stay home and inflation because everything costs so much more.

You can't raise wages for just one group of people. It creates a domino effect.

The two leftist myths we've been trying to put to rest are 1. When the employer has more business costs, he must dig deeper into his pocket. Never happened and never will. He or she pass all costs to the consumer. 2. Wages are the only concern an employer has. Wrong. Wages are just the start. When an employer increases wages, they have many other costs that go up as well such as matching the employees SS and Medicare contributions, higher workman's compensation and unemployment insurance rates, losing more money when the employee is paid for not working such as vacation and holidays.

More rubbish. The fact is minimum wage exists for a good reason, and the fact it has been ignored and stagnated for decqades is now catching up to all these 'businessmen' who got a free ride on crap wages and now the free ride is ending for them, and they find they never had enough business to justify hiring many people in the first place even at minimum wage on jobs criminal illegal aliens can't dominate. You of course like to pretend all those SS and Medicare costs are going up because destroying the wage base has led to those increases as a percentage of pay, not the other way around. Raise the wages and it makes it viable to lower the percentages back down, duh. If minimum wage was so bad ti would have crashed a long time ago, but it hasn't and it never will cause inflation, it has always lagged inflation, a fact you can't handwave away. Labor cost as a percentage of business costs has dropped off for many years now; just because it might raise costs for some ass clown who sits in a truck playing with himself while his wetbacks mow and trim your yard isn't a reason to do away with minimum wage, it just means the ass clown might have to get off his ass and do his own work is all.

 

[DudleySmith]

For those who support raising the minimum wage, have you ever seen a dog run around in circles, trying to catch their tail? That's how minimum wage works.

That's that is what minimum wage does. Raise MW, prices go up, and those earning MW have less earning power and want to raise the MW again so they can afford the newer higher prices everyone is forced to pay.

So you've tried licking your own balls?

You know shit about it.

 

[DudleySmith]

At this time there are many openings and so few people filling them, so yeah there are jobs not getting done…

Rubbish. Just because say, St. Louis has high unemployment and Dallas needs a lot of dishwashers and janitors doesn't mean the jobs wont get done and people should be stupid enough to to hitchhike from St. Louis to Dallas for part time minimum wage jobs just because some businessman doesn't want to pay the going rates for labor in a boom town nobody can afford to live in. The people who can't pay decent wages will go out of business and somebody smarter will fill that slot if it was worth filling in the first place. If nobody caters to that market then obviously there was never any demand for it.

 

[DudleySmith]

What do you think I meant when I said the union was asking their retirees to find people interested in the trade, that meant finding journeymen? Of course that means trainees, WTF did you think it meant? The union will train people for free if they are willing to do the job. Yes, when you become a journeyman you will make five times more than a McDonald's worker. What do you mean skilled labor doesn't pay more?

Now you're going to use the excuse people shouldn't take the job because one day there may be too many bricklayers? Do you know how stupid of an argument that is? What if doctors and engineers looked at their potential careers the same way?

Nobody has to go into low paying service industries when there are plenty of fields of work that pay well and very much in demand.

lol more rubbish and handwaves. Nobody wants to train their own employees, they have had decades of suckering the govt. into paying to pay and produce an excess of labor in most fields, only to find out most employers lie a lot about 'shortages' and now nobody bites on 'yeah just train for a few years for suckers' wages and you'll get big Bux later!!!' scam any more, especially in construction trades.
'Nobody has to go into low paying service industries??? What planet to do you live on??? In many tech industries just turning 35 is a career ender.

 

[Theowl32]

More rubbish. The fact is minimum wage exists for a good reason, and the fact it has been ignored and stagnated for decqades is now catching up to all these 'businessmen' who got a free ride on crap wages and now the free ride is ending for them, and they find they never had enough business to justify hiring many people in the first place even at minimum wage on jobs criminal illegal aliens can't dominate. You of course like to pretend all those SS and Medicare costs are going up because destroying the wage base has led to those increases as a percentage of pay, not the other way around. Raise the wages and it makes it viable to lower the percentages back down, duh. If minimum wage was so bad ti would have crashed a long time ago, but it hasn't and it never will cause inflation, it has always lagged inflation, a fact you can't handwave away. Labor cost as a percentage of business costs has dropped off for many years now; just because it might raise costs for some ass clown who sits in a truck playing with himself while his wetbacks mow and trim your yard isn't a reason to do away with minimum wage, it just means the ass clown might have to get off his ass and do his own work is all.

Are you against the Chinese Communist Party and their labor practices that our beloved corporations (who sold their collective souls to the yellow devil) have taken advantage of?

How about Nike or commie kaepernick being paid 50 million dollars by Nike with their factories in veitnam and Pakistan taking advantage of cheap labor?

Have any problem with that? Hmmm?

 

[Anomalism]

Raising the minimum wage reduces poverty. Every single time. It also reduced the unemployment rate.

Next time you have a stupid question, try google.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/01/04/economists-agree-raising-the-minimum-wage-reduces-poverty/

Raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2024 would lift wages for 41 million American workers

Gradually raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2024 would directly lift the wages of 22.5 million workers and directly or indirectly lift wages for 41.5 million workers, nearly 30 percent of all U.S. workers. The workers who would receive a pay increase are overwhelmingly adult workers, most of...

www.epi.org

Raising dollar per our wages is not the same as reducing poverty. Others in this thread have tried to explain why you can't actually artificially force up the value somebody has to the market relative to everybody else. You'll just create wage inflation. Your link doesn't seem to show that raising minimum wage reduces poverty. It just makes me think you can't see why causing wage inflation won't reduce poverty. After the market corrects itself they're back to where they started.

I don't agree with the minimum wage for several reasons, but I also don't stop there. I support taxes and social safety nets too. Jacking up the minimum wage is not how we should go about trying to reduce poverty.

 

[Turtlesoup]

The minimum wage gives people more financial incentive to get off the government dole.

Don't see how---it hurts the elderly and others who save along with those who don't make minimum wage because they have worked their way up----usually they at best get small raises if any, while less skilled get paid more closer to their wage. Then inflation kicks so the guy that was making above minimum can afford less while the guy now making the new minimum wage still lives in poverty.

 

[Anomalism]

What do you mean you bet? You couldn't even be bothered to read the whys? Once more, your title asks "Does raising the Minimum Wage reduce poverty?" The answer provided by that link is yes, most of the time, for those experiencing poverty (of course), but it's far from being the only solution. If you meant to title it "Can a minimum wage increase poverty in some cases?" then that's what you should have done. Then everyone could just say "Duh!" and you'd have your jollies.

Alternate (dumb) questions:
"Would paying people nothing generally reduce poverty?"
"Is there any wage that's too little?"
"Could a maximum wage reduce poverty?"
"Do employers generally prefer paying people less?"
If, as Ray suggests, this all comes down to those damn pot smokers, drug screens, and workman's comp rates, then "Who's job is it to tell those insurance behemoths to go fish? {choices: a). the gubmint? or b). the employer/union bosses?}"
"Who mostly pays for lobbyists and to bribe congress critters {choices: a). workers? b). the poor? c). employers?"

It's a shitty solution. We should not be trying to control the market with government mandates. There are other paths to take.

 

[AntonToo]

I doubt it outstrips the raise. I just don’t see it helping much either.

You’re just going to raise the cost of living and there will be fewer jobs offered as companies will go for more automation and less low-skilled positions. The resulting benefit for minimum wage earners will be minimal at best.

I want to help reduce poverty as much as you do, but I don’t think this is the way to do it. I’m more in favor of affordable housing and reducing the cost of college tuition.

You don't think but mainstream economists who study these effects do and the question is why you don't want to listen to them.

How Increasing the Federal Minimum Wage Could Affect Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office

This interactive tool, updated in January 30, 2024, allows users to explore how various policies to increase the federal minimum wage would affect earnings, employment, family income, and poverty.

www.cbo.gov

 

[DudleySmith]

Are you against the Chinese Communist Party and their labor practices that our beloved corporations (who sold their collective souls to the yellow devil) have taken advantage of?

How about Nike or commie kaepernick being paid 50 million dollars by Nike with their factories in veitnam and Pakistan taking advantage of cheap labor?

Have any problem with that? Hmmm?

Are you claiming I've said anything about outsourcing and have been praising it or something? As I've pointed out repeatedly on this forum the big multi-nationals loves them some Red Chinese labor racketeering, and many of those same companies signed on to support BLM too; corporations loves the Red Chinese 'business model', and right wingers just love to throw even more tax breaks at them like dumbasses.

 

[DudleySmith]

As for wages and inflation, let's see what handwaves and bullshit excuses right wingers come up with re meatpackers and Reagan's beloved wetbacks. This should generate a more hilarious idiotic arguments from the right.

1985–1986 Hormel strike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ultimately, only about 20% of the strikers would return to their jobs at the plant.[2][23] Many of those involved in the strike were removed from the rehiring list due to activities during the strike.[59] Citing the clause barring support for any boycott of Hormel, some former strikers were removed from the list due to having bumper stickers supporting the boycott or for attending rallies where the boycott was promoted.[10] Furthermore, in 1989, Hormel began to sublease a part of the plant to a firm that paid $6.50 per hour.[65][23] This company, called Quality Pork Processors (QPP), took over much of the animal slaughter part of the plant's operations, and by the mid-1990s had brought in a new workforce of mostly Mexican American men.[25] The results of the strike also had an impact on the demographics of Austin, as approximately a quarter of the population in 2010 were minority.[26]

You can bet the company hiring the Mexicans likely cheated them even on that $6.50 an hour, i.e. unpaid overtime, etc.

Wholesale prices of meat before, during and after the strike ended around 1986:

Meat Price Spreads | Economic Research Service

This data set provides monthly average price values, and the differences among those values, at the farm, wholesale, and retail stages of the production and marketing chain for selected cuts of beef, pork, and broilers.

www.ers.usda.gov

Click on Historical monthly price spread data for beef, pork, broilers at the link and check the wholesale prices on on all three; it's a spreadsheet in Excel so you will need a reader of some kind.

Obviously labor costs had pretty much nothing to do with wholesale meat prices even after wages were cut in half and bennies gone.

 

[eagle1462010]

but it hasn't and it never will cause inflation,

You are an idiot. Go play in traffic idiot.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As for wages and inflation, let's see what handwaves and bullshit excuses right wingers come up with re meatpackers and Reagan's beloved wetbacks. This should generate a more hilarious idiotic arguments from the right.

1985–1986 Hormel strike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ultimately, only about 20% of the strikers would return to their jobs at the plant.[2][23] Many of those involved in the strike were removed from the rehiring list due to activities during the strike.[59] Citing the clause barring support for any boycott of Hormel, some former strikers were removed from the list due to having bumper stickers supporting the boycott or for attending rallies where the boycott was promoted.[10] Furthermore, in 1989, Hormel began to sublease a part of the plant to a firm that paid $6.50 per hour.[65][23] This company, called Quality Pork Processors (QPP), took over much of the animal slaughter part of the plant's operations, and by the mid-1990s had brought in a new workforce of mostly Mexican American men.[25] The results of the strike also had an impact on the demographics of Austin, as approximately a quarter of the population in 2010 were minority.[26]

You can bet the company hiring the Mexicans likely cheated them even on that $6.50 an hour, i.e. unpaid overtime, etc.

Wholesale prices of meat before, during and after the strike ended around 1986:

Meat Price Spreads | Economic Research Service

This data set provides monthly average price values, and the differences among those values, at the farm, wholesale, and retail stages of the production and marketing chain for selected cuts of beef, pork, and broilers.

www.ers.usda.gov

Click on Historical monthly price spread data for beef, pork, broilers at the link and check the wholesale prices on on all three; it's a spreadsheet in Excel so you will need a reader of some kind.

Obviously labor costs had pretty much nothing to do with wholesale meat prices even after wages were cut in half and bennies gone.

Fine and dandy if prices were controlled that way, but they're not. They are controlled by the commodities market. Like fuel, grains, agriculture, livestock is also an international market. The reason for that is like the other items listed, there are always fluctuations and at times huge fluctuations. To lay it on one entity is to be totally ignorant on how prices are set in the US and world.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

lol more rubbish and handwaves. Nobody wants to train their own employees, they have had decades of suckering the govt. into paying to pay and produce an excess of labor in most fields, only to find out most employers lie a lot about 'shortages' and now nobody bites on 'yeah just train for a few years for suckers' wages and you'll get big Bux later!!!' scam any more, especially in construction trades.
'Nobody has to go into low paying service industries??? What planet to do you live on??? In many tech industries just turning 35 is a career ender.

First off construction is not like industry. Because all jobs are temporary, you actually work for the union. It's the union that sends you to school to learn the trade, and then you gain experience on job sites they send you on. There is no other way to learn how to do it. So they send you to the job site, the bricklaying part of the job is finished, and you are laid off. You contact the union and they send you to another job site. That's how it works.

Making big bucks in construction is not anything new. It's paid good money all along, so your theory is totally flawed. Trust me, I'm from a construction family so I know. My father and his brothers built the house I grew up in from ground up.

That aside, let's move to my former line of work in transportation. What's wrong with people getting into that? I did it, why can't anybody else do it? I made a decent living at it, invested in real estate, and have been a landlord for nearly 30 years. I could have made much more money but I was restricted due to medical problems, but I still made a decent living. However with no such restrictions, you can make six figures depending on what kind of work you're willing to do. Even if you don't do anything risky or difficult, you can still make 55K or more a year if you don't have my restrictions. I kept this ad as an example. This was before covid, but we need even more drivers today than before the virus hit us.

Walmart to hire hundreds of truck drivers, raise salary to nearly $90,000

Walmart has announced it will hire “hundreds” of truck drivers and raise driver pay in 2019. Last year, the company saw same-store comp sales hit three percent, “which is leading …

fox8.com

 

[DBA]

You don't think but mainstream economists who study these effects do and the question is why you don't want to listen to them.

How Increasing the Federal Minimum Wage Could Affect Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office

This interactive tool, updated in January 30, 2024, allows users to explore how various policies to increase the federal minimum wage would affect earnings, employment, family income, and poverty.

www.cbo.gov

I thought we weren’t supposed to pay attention to the CBO? Oh wait, that was just in the particular case of evaluating the cost of the Build Back Better plan.

Lemmings