Zone1 Does Medical Capacity Mean We Should?

[LibertyKid]

Does Medical Capacity Mean We Should?

I've mentioned this in a few other threads and curious if it may generate reasonable conversation (I doubt it since a good portion of you are only after a good jab and rhetoric). And I'm not approaching this with an absolute determined opinion as I think through the various variables.

Human history, for 1000s of years have record evidence of homosexuality, and in some societies, openly accepted. For 1000s of years, it appears that most homosexuals accepted their orientation while it seemed that they also accepted their bodies.

Not until the 20th Century did we embark into therapy and surgeries for transition with limited success. Currently, modern hormonal and surgical techniques allow for much greater physical success in transitioning, but still require lifelong therapy, physically, medically, and maybe even mentally. But do we fully understand the long term mental, physical, and sociological effects well enough that we want to encourage transitioning and therapies as such young ages? Does it make better sense to encourage love of one's own body and acceptance of that biological body rather than encouraging the drastic and irreversible methods of surgery?

 

[Dekster]

1. No for children.

2. For adults, I don't care what you do as far as your body.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Does Medical Capacity Mean We Should?

I've mentioned this in a few other threads and curious if it may generate reasonable conversation (I doubt it since a good portion of you are only after a good jab and rhetoric). And I'm not approaching this with an absolute determined opinion as I think through the various variables.

Human history, for 1000s of years have record evidence of homosexuality, and in some societies, openly accepted. For 1000s of years, it appears that most homosexuals accepted their orientation while it seemed that they also accepted their bodies.

Not until the 20th Century did we embark into therapy and surgeries for transition with limited success. Currently, modern hormonal and surgical techniques allow for much greater physical success in transitioning, but still require lifelong therapy, physically, medically, and maybe even mentally. But do we fully understand the long term mental, physical, and sociological effects well enough that we want to encourage transitioning and therapies as such young ages? Does it make better sense to encourage love of one's own body and acceptance of that biological body rather than encouraging the drastic and irreversible methods of surgery?

[ I will let experts in the issue discuss and decide what is best for all of these young people, who unlike previous generations where it was not possible to do so, can now do it because the science is available for it. ]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

The association provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of its update ahead of publication in a medical journal, expected later this year. The international group promotes evidence-based standards of care and includes more than 3,000 doctors, social scientists and others involved in transgender health issues.

The update is based on expert opinion and a review of scientific evidence on the benefits and harms of transgender medical treatment in teens whose gender identity doesn’t match the sex they were assigned at birth, the group said. Such evidence is limited but has grown in the last decade, the group said, with studies suggesting the treatments can improve psychological well-being and reduce suicidal behavior.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

• Professional medical organizations recommend against puberty blockers for children who have not reached puberty, which typically begins between ages 10 and 12.

• Hormone treatment for feminization or masculinization of the body is typically not considered until patients are at least 16 years old.

• Gender reassignment surgery is typically only available to those 18 and older in the United States.

PolitiFact - No, young children cannot take hormones or change their sex

Misinformation about medical treatments for transgender patients has proliferated in recent weeks, as a spate of events

www.politifact.com

 

[LibertyKid]

[ I will let experts in the issue discuss and decide what is best for all of these young people, who unlike previous generations where it was not possible to do so, can now do it because the science is available for it. ]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

The association provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of its update ahead of publication in a medical journal, expected later this year. The international group promotes evidence-based standards of care and includes more than 3,000 doctors, social scientists and others involved in transgender health issues.

The update is based on expert opinion and a review of scientific evidence on the benefits and harms of transgender medical treatment in teens whose gender identity doesn’t match the sex they were assigned at birth, the group said. Such evidence is limited but has grown in the last decade, the group said, with studies suggesting the treatments can improve psychological well-being and reduce suicidal behavior.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

Interesting. From the article you posted, "Many experts say more kids are seeking such treatment because gender-questioning children are more aware of their medical options and facing less stigma."

Within the same article it appears advocates still have internal debates

Critics, including some from within the transgender treatment community, say some clinics are too quick to offer irreversible treatment to kids who would otherwise outgrow their gender-questioning.
Psychologist Erica Anderson resigned her post as a board member of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health last year after voicing concerns about “sloppy” treatment given to kids without adequate counseling.
She is still a group member and supports the updated guidelines, which emphasize comprehensive assessments before treatment. But she says dozens of families have told her that doesn’t always happen.
“They tell me horror stories. They tell me, ‘Our child had 20 minutes with the doctor’” before being offered hormones, she said. “The parents leave with their hair on fire.”

This article seems to support my question, are we going to quickly into the transitioning field. Should the medical community take a step back and before they jump down this rabbit hole ask a few more questions? Why now is "gender" so questioned by children and parents? Why can't a child be gay while learning to love the body they were born when the majority of history, their "cis" body was okay?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Interesting. From the article you posted, "Many experts say more kids are seeking such treatment because gender-questioning children are more aware of their medical options and facing less stigma."

Within the same article it appears advocates still have internal debates

Critics, including some from within the transgender treatment community, say some clinics are too quick to offer irreversible treatment to kids who would otherwise outgrow their gender-questioning.
Psychologist Erica Anderson resigned her post as a board member of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health last year after voicing concerns about “sloppy” treatment given to kids without adequate counseling.
She is still a group member and supports the updated guidelines, which emphasize comprehensive assessments before treatment. But she says dozens of families have told her that doesn’t always happen.
“They tell me horror stories. They tell me, ‘Our child had 20 minutes with the doctor’” before being offered hormones, she said. “The parents leave with their hair on fire.”

This article seems to support my question, are we going to quickly into the transitioning field. Should the medical community take a step back and before they jump down this rabbit hole ask a few more questions? Why now is "gender" so questioned by children and parents? Why can't a child be gay while learning to love the body they were born when the majority of history, their "cis" body was okay?

I would say that none of us know the history of any of these trans people. Their experiences, thoughts, the fears they have felt for being different and not having the ability to validate who they really were.

Scientists and doctors are learning all the time, and it is all they learn which will lead the decisions as to how young to start the physical and psychological treatments and at what age any of them will be allowed to have the surgery.

As per the other article, in the US, 18 is the allowed age for surgeries. Family, friends, understanding until then is very important.

 

[LibertyKid]

I would say that none of us know the history of any of these trans people. Their experiences, thoughts, the fears they have felt for being different and not having the ability to validate who they really were.

Scientists and doctors are learning all the time, and it is all they learn which will lead the decisions as to how young to start the physical and psychological treatments and at what age any of them will be allowed to have the surgery.

Learning all the time, but should we be practicing while learning as we go with such a potential non-reversible process (at least at some point it isn't reversible).

 

[Dragonlady]

Interesting. From the article you posted, "Many experts say more kids are seeking such treatment because gender-questioning children are more aware of their medical options and facing less stigma."

Within the same article it appears advocates still have internal debates

Critics, including some from within the transgender treatment community, say some clinics are too quick to offer irreversible treatment to kids who would otherwise outgrow their gender-questioning.
Psychologist Erica Anderson resigned her post as a board member of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health last year after voicing concerns about “sloppy” treatment given to kids without adequate counseling.
She is still a group member and supports the updated guidelines, which emphasize comprehensive assessments before treatment. But she says dozens of families have told her that doesn’t always happen.
“They tell me horror stories. They tell me, ‘Our child had 20 minutes with the doctor’” before being offered hormones, she said. “The parents leave with their hair on fire.”

This article seems to support my question, are we going to quickly into the transitioning field. Should the medical community take a step back and before they jump down this rabbit hole ask a few more questions? Why now is "gender" so questioned by children and parents? Why can't a child be gay while learning to love the body they were born when the majority of history, their "cis" body was okay?

Their CIS body was “Ok” and didn’t feel wrong until it started to change.

I know of one trans man who came from the deeply religious evangelical family. It was always my impression that being attracted to women was so “wrong” that it would only be acceptable if he was a man. Every time I looked at “him”, I saw a skinny little girl.

But 10 years layer I met another young trans person who clearly was a young boy.

In the 1970’s, we had a customer at my bank who everyone thought was a man, until they pulled the account and saw the name. She worked as a farm hand and her hand were big and thick like a man. Tellers greeted her with “Can I help you sir?”. And were mortified when they saw her name.

Trans have always been here. They’ve just be even more closeted than gays. Now they have more potential life options.

 

[LibertyKid]

Trans have always been here. They’ve just be even more closeted than gays. Now they have more potential life options.

But it's not that easy to say they have options. The options require a lifetime of treatments. The risks of surgery are still very present. Sexual pleasure is at risk. It is not a guarantee that a trans-woman will be able to climax.
The current narrative makes "transitioning" sound simple, and easy. It's the fix for mental issues and social acceptance. I'm just not sure it's as easy as currently presented by "professionals".

 

[Dragonlady]

But it's not that easy to say they have options. The options require a lifetime of treatments. The risks of surgery are still very present. Sexual pleasure is at risk. It is not a guarantee that a trans-woman will be able to climax.
The current narrative makes "transitioning" sound simple, and easy. It's the fix for mental issues and social acceptance. I'm just not sure it's as easy as currently presented by "professionals".

I think the current narrative makes it sound is fucking difficult as hell. I can’t imagine that any surgically created sexual organs are ever going to match up with the real thing.

And then there’s the whole cultural thing that’s going on now. I know a family with a trans child who has already trief to commit suicide once, and that was before all of this trans hate started.

I don’t even know what to say to the parents. “Oh, you’ll get through this. It’ll all be fine.”. I can’t even pretend that I think it will.

 

[Dwell]

Does Medical Capacity Mean We Should?

I've mentioned this in a few other threads and curious if it may generate reasonable conversation (I doubt it since a good portion of you are only after a good jab and rhetoric). And I'm not approaching this with an absolute determined opinion as I think through the various variables.

Human history, for 1000s of years have record evidence of homosexuality, and in some societies, openly accepted. For 1000s of years, it appears that most homosexuals accepted their orientation while it seemed that they also accepted their bodies.

Not until the 20th Century did we embark into therapy and surgeries for transition with limited success. Currently, modern hormonal and surgical techniques allow for much greater physical success in transitioning, but still require lifelong therapy, physically, medically, and maybe even mentally. But do we fully understand the long term mental, physical, and sociological effects well enough that we want to encourage transitioning and therapies as such young ages? Does it make better sense to encourage love of one's own body and acceptance of that biological body rather than encouraging the drastic and irreversible methods of surgery?

You appear to be conflating homosexuality and transgenderism. Those are two different things.

As for transgenderism, that's a very difficult topic to address. I accept transgenderism as a real thing and not some kind of delusion. I believe that we, as a society, should start by accepting it as a natural phenomenon that we don't yet understand. Because we don't understand it, I believe medical professionals should not rush to potentially dangerous or irreversible treatment, and it looks like most of them are already taking that approach. Psychologists need more time to analyze all the nuances. In the meantime, I believe it's important for us as a society to openly accept all young people claiming to be transgender. Every individual's situation is different. Give the psychologists time to try to sort it all out. We can't let our current political nonsense dictate to us how to proceed with something this complex. We don't need any quick, kneejerk responses to show us the 'way'.