does God love us?

[presonorek]

You'll find comfort and reassurance in the black book called "The Bible."

Mine is brown.

I have a brown one too but most of mine are black.

 

[harmonica]

after killing 3 million people with one virus, it seems to me God is an asshole, if he exists even

there is no god

 

[presonorek]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

I was exposed to religion when I was young. I realized quite early that I had no need for it.

Religion isn't God. Why are you equivocating?

I'm not. I have no use for gods therefore I have no use for religion.

I never equated them. That's you making shit up again

 

[presonorek]

Show me every verse where it is mentioned so that the proper context can be established. There aren't that many.

You're a bible follower.

He zips and zings his way out of being held to any standard. Don’t waste your time researching the Bible to argue with ding. He will just make this slippery claim that God was smoking cigars with him and told him that part of the Bible was just a joke. It’s hilarious to watch his flexibility. Christians live by the Bible. Ding lives by what is good and he is against all that is bad. Don’t even try to play the gotcha card on him. God will just tell him that you are wrong and ding is right. Isn’t it uncanny that God never tells ding that he is wrong. Weird.

 

[presonorek]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

So... from a child's perspective. Got it. What could possibly go wrong with that?

It hasn't changed.

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Why don't you tell me where it states that there will be no rewards from god no matter how devout a person is.

I’m not going to waste my time looking up the Bible verses but the doctrine of predestination is a belief that God chooses some and rejects others. Their level of devotion to God is irrelevant. But yes the mainstream evangelical Christians accept Jesus Christ as their savior to avoid hell and to gain heaven. It is the basis of their philosophical system. I think if you studied traditional Christianity this would be less of a focus. The modern Christian is mostly motivated by the hedonistic mindset of rewards and punishment.

I agree with your observation but I don’t believe you are analyzing religious texts. You are making your claim based on observation of religious persons.

 

[presonorek]

No, not a magician. Consciousness.

That's it, keep moving the goalposts until you find something that makes sense. But this isn't it.

Just because you perceive God to be some magical fairy tale and skew everything to that end doesn't mean I have to. It's no wonder there is no evidence you will accept for God's existence.

Your (fucked up) perception of God is not my perception of God. My perception of God is consciousness without form. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality. Such that Mind has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. It's not a coincidence that the universe popped into existence hardwired to produce intelligence.

No goal post moving here. This has always been my assertion, dummy.

So where does the vengeful god and the bible come in?

You tell me. I don't read the bible like you guys do.

That's it, add a little smoke while you move the goalposts to and fro.

Because I don't read the Bible like a militant atheist?

I do find it intriguing that Christians hate the Bible and atheists love it.

I used to be a teacher in a Christian school. It was uncanny that I was scolded on more than one occasion for letting kids read the inappropriate parts of the Bible.

Christians will dart and dive and jump over tables and chairs to avoid discussing anything in the Old Testament that isn’t the Ten Commandments.

Christians hate the Bible with a perfect hatred. I continue to scratch my head. There are a fair number of atheists that have actually read the Bible all the way through. Weird. Name two Christians that have read the Bible all the way through.

 

[presonorek]

But as I said before I have never ever heard a sermon on heaven and hell.

Dang. I grew up in a Baptist Church in the 80s. I probably wouldn’t be exaggerating if I said over 50% of the sermons I heard mentioned hell as the central theme. Heaven wasn’t as common but yes. I heard about hell a lot.

 

[presonorek]

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It is only through the workings of God that every single one of us has the opportunity to gain everlasting life. He loves you and wants you to succeed and find everlasting happiness.

.

if your religion makes you hate someone, you need a new religion, my friends

.
- rewriting the one they made up would be helpful as well,
.
View attachment 472317
.
couldn't be any worse that what they have ...
.

What about if you have no religion and you hate other people for having religion?

It is only through the workings of God that every single one of us has the opportunity to gain everlasting life. He loves you and wants you to succeed and find everlasting happiness.

.
what century have they ever not been at the forefront of persecution and victimization of the innocent - and merrily go on their way.

You must be confusing them with the militant atheists of the 20th century.

.

You must be confusing them with the militant atheists of the 20th century.

.
really, you have confusion recognizing your own congregation - sorry, that's a rather extraordinary tale of denial even for a christian.

no confusion here, speaking of the 20th century - those goons are 20th century and fine specimens of your religion after evolving similarly through each century since the 4th ... and you are whining about a little well deserved retribution with at best marginal success - from the atheists. count your lucky stars they are as dumb as they are.

The militant atheists are representative of your beliefs, dummy.

.

The militant atheists are representative of your beliefs, dummy.

.
really, the triumph of good vs evil - mine are from antiquity - yours are from a 10000 page book of forgeries and fallacies ... only a dummy would worship. your problem not mine.

Exactly how many people besides you know about and follow your religious beliefs?

There is not even a website for the Religion of Antiquity. I’m going to go with just one follower.

Not just that but it is one follower that doesn’t have enough passion to start a website.

 

[Blues Man]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

So... from a child's perspective. Got it. What could possibly go wrong with that?

It hasn't changed.

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Why don't you tell me where it states that there will be no rewards from god no matter how devout a person is.

I’m not going to waste my time looking up the Bible verses but the doctrine of predestination is a belief that God chooses some and rejects others. Their level of devotion to God is irrelevant. But yes the mainstream evangelical Christians accept Jesus Christ as their savior to avoid hell and to gain heaven. It is the basis of their philosophical system. I think if you studied traditional Christianity this would be less of a focus. The modern Christian is mostly motivated by the hedonistic mindset of rewards and punishment.

I agree with your observation but I don’t believe you are analyzing religious texts. You are making your claim based on observation of religious persons.

The theme of salvation, rewards and punishment is pervasive throughout the history of Christianity.

Not that much has changed

 

[BULLDOG]

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

The concept of a loving all powerful God did not come from the Bible. I’m not sure which Bible the lovey dovey people are reading. Just joking. They aren’t reading it. I knew that already.

God killed the heck out of some people. Murdered hard core for centuries. God was constantly pissed at his chosen people. God even got so pissed off he tortured his son to appease his anger. Yeah. I’m just not following the lovey dovey crowd. I don’t find their ignorance cute or even annoying. I find their ignorance infuriating. Their misrepresentation of God is blatantly opposite of the God in the Bible. It pisses me off to no end. Do these people think they are three years old and unable to handle what their religion is really about? Do they really have to resort to believing things that feel good instead of learning at least a little bit? This is beyond annoying. It is infuriating. I have a perfect hatred for anybody that ignorantly asserts that “God is love”. They must be reading the Precious Moments translation of the Bible.

I wasn't talking about the god that was described in the Bible. I'm talking about the one they have manufactured to meet their fondest wishes. The one they choose to believe is real.

 

[Meriweather]

God killed the heck out of some people. Murdered hard core for centuries. God was constantly pissed at his chosen people. God even got so pissed off he tortured his son to appease his anger. Yeah. I’m just not following the lovey dovey crowd. I don’t find their ignorance cute or even annoying. I find their ignorance infuriating. Their misrepresentation of God is blatantly opposite of the God in the Bible. It pisses me off to no end. Do these people think they are three years old and unable to handle what their religion is really about? Do they really have to resort to believing things that feel good instead of learning at least a little bit? This is beyond annoying. It is infuriating. I have a perfect hatred for anybody that ignorantly asserts that “God is love”. They must be reading the Precious Moments translation of the Bible.

Or studying ancient cultures, languages, cultures and researching what Jewish scholars and rabbis down through the ages have noted about their own book, their own culture, etc. It is quite different from what you concluded from the modern Western culture perspective reading the Modern English translation. God is love. I do not find your ignorance of this annoying or infuriating. I do pity it. You have said you have sought God but never experienced Him. Consider that looking for an angry God is like looking for a place to surf in the desert.

Have you ever read what Jesus said and believed about God? Ever reflected on the Prodigal Son? Jesus believed in God, his mission of announcing Sins Are Forgiven. If announcing this good news should lead to his death, he would choose death over disobedience to God.

Have you ever considered that only the Totally Depraved see God as an angry murderer? They listen carefully but do not understand; look intently but do not see. Their hearts are hardened and they refuse to turn to God less those hard hearts be healed.

 

[Meriweather]

Name two Christians that have read the Bible all the way through.

Catholics and Orthodox who attend Sunday Mass read through the Bible every three years. Those who attend Daily Mass read it through once a year.

 

[Meriweather]

But as I said before I have never ever heard a sermon on heaven and hell.

Dang. I grew up in a Baptist Church in the 80s. I probably wouldn’t be exaggerating if I said over 50% of the sermons I heard mentioned hell as the central theme. Heaven wasn’t as common but yes. I heard about hell a lot.

Yet in al my years as a Catholic, I have heard only three homilies where hell was ever mentioned. That's right, listening to the yearly homily on Church finances is therefore much more often preached than hell. You should realize Catholic and Orthodox are the greatest majority of Christians. Your brand of Christianity is only heard by the minority.

 

[Votto]

after killing 3 million people with one virus, it seems to me God is an asshole, if he exists even

And here I thought Trump killed all those people.

Damn for CNN lying to me!!!

 

[Meriweather]

I wasn't talking about the god that was described in the Bible. I'm talking about the one they have manufactured to meet their fondest wishes. The one they choose to believe is real.

Lived, not manufactured. Jews and Christians both agree these are the Greatest Commandments:

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

This way of life, this reality, is the way of truth. Admittedly, we often live it imperfectly, but our experiences of a loving God, and yes a loving humanity, are true and real experiences, not just fond wishes.

 

[BreezeWood]

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It is only through the workings of God that every single one of us has the opportunity to gain everlasting life. He loves you and wants you to succeed and find everlasting happiness.

.

if your religion makes you hate someone, you need a new religion, my friends

.
- rewriting the one they made up would be helpful as well,
.
View attachment 472317
.
couldn't be any worse that what they have ...
.

What about if you have no religion and you hate other people for having religion?

It is only through the workings of God that every single one of us has the opportunity to gain everlasting life. He loves you and wants you to succeed and find everlasting happiness.

.
what century have they ever not been at the forefront of persecution and victimization of the innocent - and merrily go on their way.

You must be confusing them with the militant atheists of the 20th century.

.

You must be confusing them with the militant atheists of the 20th century.

.
really, you have confusion recognizing your own congregation - sorry, that's a rather extraordinary tale of denial even for a christian.

no confusion here, speaking of the 20th century - those goons are 20th century and fine specimens of your religion after evolving similarly through each century since the 4th ... and you are whining about a little well deserved retribution with at best marginal success - from the atheists. count your lucky stars they are as dumb as they are.

The militant atheists are representative of your beliefs, dummy.

.

The militant atheists are representative of your beliefs, dummy.

.
really, the triumph of good vs evil - mine are from antiquity - yours are from a 10000 page book of forgeries and fallacies ... only a dummy would worship. your problem not mine.

Exactly how many people besides you know about and follow your religious beliefs?

There is not even a website for the Religion of Antiquity. I’m going to go with just one follower.

Not just that but it is one follower that doesn’t have enough passion to start a website.

.

there are a fair number of atheists that have actually read the Bible all the way through.

There is not even a website for the Religion of Antiquity. I’m going to go with just one follower.

Not just that but it is one follower that doesn’t have enough passion to start a website.

.
you have no idea what - oral tradition - means. few christians are aware of what is in your book - they, most, are christians by the oral tradition they are raised with. since the 4th century.

contrary however are snips of true oral from the forgeries and fallacies of the christian bible.
.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

the above is an example of a forgery written in the 4th century - the roman empire.
.
.
“Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani” - - “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
.
an example of oral tradition - spoken during the crucifixion - the final chapter, oral tradition the 4th century was bound to include as to its authenticity, contradictory to the very premise they wrote their book by. and makes little sense whichever side one straddles - relevant and unanswered to this day.

* the scriptural religions are dead. frozen - - > unfulfilled.

 

[ding]

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

The concept of a loving all powerful God did not come from the Bible. I’m not sure which Bible the lovey dovey people are reading. Just joking. They aren’t reading it. I knew that already.

God killed the heck out of some people. Murdered hard core for centuries. God was constantly pissed at his chosen people. God even got so pissed off he tortured his son to appease his anger. Yeah. I’m just not following the lovey dovey crowd. I don’t find their ignorance cute or even annoying. I find their ignorance infuriating. Their misrepresentation of God is blatantly opposite of the God in the Bible. It pisses me off to no end. Do these people think they are three years old and unable to handle what their religion is really about? Do they really have to resort to believing things that feel good instead of learning at least a little bit? This is beyond annoying. It is infuriating. I have a perfect hatred for anybody that ignorantly asserts that “God is love”. They must be reading the Precious Moments translation of the Bible.

The Gnostics had the same problem as you. They couldn't reconcile the seemingly apparent differences between the old and new testaments. Their solution was to believe two gods existed; an evil god and a good god. Which is almost as stupid as your conclusion that there must be no God.

 

[ding]

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

I’d be satisfied with non magical like perhaps giving me a lollipop on my birthday or some simple gesture like that.

Creating existence and winning the cosmic lottery wasn't enough for you? Ungrateful much?

 

[ding]

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

According to Machiavelli either will work but using fear to govern is more foolproof. Love can be faked.

Machiavelli was wrong. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. The problem is when people become satisfied they become proud and less virtuous. It's the moral of the OT that you can't see because your love for yourself keeps getting in the way of.

 

[ding]

spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism.

I’m an atheist that believes this statement. Religious people are more functional people than those without religions.

That's nice but that not exactly what that means.