Yo
I'm not an organic chemist so the issues people have with Miller-Urey are of little interest to me. I just consider them to be a God-of-the-gaps issue. We can't explain it so it must have been God.
Sorry, you lost me as someone credible with your much false discussion on a paper you presented to me and which I read. You admit now that it isn't anything which you can discuss and furthermore I do not think you understand. That makes me very disappointed in you because you are a
faker. I did the work to look at Miller-Urey and understand it and found the link where one can actually do their experiment.
The Miller-Urey links allows one to replicate their experiment in an easy and safe environment online. All one has to do is click on the gas they want to add. The sparker and boiling water for water vapor is all set up for you. You would've discovered any oxygen presence would cause an explosion. Moreover, I used the gases you presented in your paper and it caused an explosion. It means they produced oxygen.
It means to me that you have no clue in what you are talking about haha.
I think you've confused me with another poster. I never brought up or discussed Miller-Urey and the link that you seem to refer to, the Carbon Cycle, was not 'presented' to you. However, if you fused Miller-Urey to the Carbon Cycle, frankly I'd be very impressed. As I stated, I'm not a chemist so I'm missing the significance of what you've done.
You lost me on that one! Hollie brought Miller up, then claimed not to, then brought Miller up! But carbon was in the environment Miller used - in the form of Methane = CH4. Actually, early earth's atmosphere was mostly CO2 not CH4 - but chemical evolutionists prefer no Oxygen though earth's geology proves oxygen is the most abundant element in earth's crust. Also carbonates in earth's crust contain over 64 million petagrams of carbon! But carbonates contain more oxygen than carbon and were formed by the geologic carbon cycle when earth's ocean(s) absorbed CO2 from the atmosphere and precipitated it out due to reactions with Sodium, Potassium and Calcium ions in earth's primordial waters.
To simplify for you:
CO2 (carbon dioxide) is removed from the atmosphere by the oceans (thankfully or global warming would be much worse than it is). The oceans contain salts (e.g. NaCl - sodium chloride = common table salt) which become separate ions of Sodium (or Calcium or Potassium) and Chlorine (Cl). The Sodium ions combine (react with) the CO3 (carbonate) ions in the oceans to produce carbonates in earth's sediments.
I can simplify or explain further if you would like me to. I am not a chemist either - but I love chemistry (along with science in general).
I think the disconnect is free oxygen (O2) verses oxides where oxygen is combined with another element (e.g., CO2). Oxygen is very reactive and readily combines so unless there is a continuous source of free O2 (e.g., photosynthesis) it will gradually disappear from the environment. I think it is generally agreed that there was little O2 in the early atmosphere.
True. But it is a known fact (usually ignored) that sunlight (UV radiation specifically) causes photolysis/photodissociation of water (H2O) into free Hydrogen and free Oxygen - and it is agreed early earth had plenty of water - otherwise the geologic carbon cycle could not have produced the vast carbonate deposits in earth's crust, containing over 64 million petagrams of carbon (oxidized).
So, if sunlight and water were present, then free Oxygen had to also be present. But as you posted, it may have been a low percentage of earth's atmosphere - perhaps as low as CO2 is today! However, even a low percentage of Oxygen would react - as you note it is reactive - but it is not intelligent enough to just oxidize minerals but not oxidize organic compounds!ygen
[Note: from the creation account (assuming creative days were c. 7,000 years long each as we used to believe) there was likely not even enough Oxygen for plants to have their night-time reaction, where they take in Oxygen, until the 3rd creative day. And still longer for plants to produce, by photosynthesis to produce enough Oxygen for animals to be created and survive in later creative days. Photosynthesis produces way more Oxygen then photolysis of water.]
These oxidized minerals go quite deep into earth's crust before elements like Iron are non-oxidized (very deep) - apparently Oxygen was oxidizing elements for a very long time!
The reaction producing free Oxygen starts by producing super-reactive atomic Oxygen (O) and then the Oxygen molecule (O2) - to wit:
H2O + UV radiation yields H2 + O - but this quickly becomes:
2H2O + UV radiation yields 2H2 + O2.
Oh, and this still is a continuous source of free Oxygen - the exact proportion is disputed. I think it is likely less than 1% - but some have proposed higher amounts from photolysis of water by UV radiation. I think the extremely low percentage of CO2 on earth today may have been similar to the percentage of O2 on early earth when life was created.
How convenient, really. When the authors of the Bibles write 7 days and that becomes an inconvenient timeframe, just change "days" to mean 7,000 years or whatever timeframe fits the fable.
I think you are inadvertently revealing you are not a Bible student. You see, Moses wrote both Genesis and the 90th Psalm. The latter has 2 math equations applying to God's concept of time compared with us earthlings - to wit:
Psalms 90:4
For a thousand years are in your eyes just as yesterday when it is past,
+
Just as a watch during the night.
Now the first equation is obvious - 1,000 years in our concept of time is like 24 hours in God's concept of time - see 2 Peter 3:8.
We can be thankful that God used this merciful definition of "day" when pronouncing the death sentence on Adam and Eve. Adam lived 930 years - just short of a 1,000 year day. Jehovah could rightly fully have executed them in the same 24 hour day - He did not say which definition of day he would use (he likely had not decided this yet) in his warning that the day they ate the forbidden fruit they would die.
Surely Eve knew it was possible she would die within 24 hours - no wonder Eve gave credit to Jehovah in Genesis 4:1 for allowing her to have children! We wouldn't be here if mercy had not been shown to them!
But the second equation depends on how long the watch would be during the night. Two obvious examples (there are others):
A. A 4 hour watch. In that case, 1,000 years is like 4 hours, so 24 hours would be like 6,000 years.
B. A 3 hour watch. In that case, 1,000 years is like 3 hours, so 24 hours would be like 8,000 years.
We (Jehovah's Witnesses) used to believe the creative days were all of the same length and were 7,000 years long each - now we have humbly admitted we do not know either. We let scientists determine that - or, at least, try to.
Two key ways to determine the timing (usually ignored by today's scientists) are:
1. The rate of removal of atmospheric CO2 from earth's primordial waters by the geologic carbon cycle such that over 64 million petagrams of carbon (C in CO2) are in earth's crustal carbonates were deposited over time.
2. The amount of time it takes for significant atmospheric change such that enough Oxygen was present for plants to use in their night-time reaction/transpiritation; and then how long for atmospheric composition of free Oxygen to be produced by plants so that animals could then be created and survive by breathing.
The former likely took billions of years but the latter likely took only thousands of years. The rate of atmospheric change due to human activity leading to global warming shows it would take a long time - but not millions of years for plants to accomplish!
On the lighter side - us animals tend to be more animate than plants - we move faster than plants!
On the other hand, while we are faster than most other animals (like sloths), we don't go that fast.
Unless we are cheaters! Or, er, Cheetahs!
wol.jw.org
. It's not just the light cone.
