Does God Exist?

[rikules]

Prove that you are a result of God's work. You can't. You can believe you are, but that is not proof....

It's evidence. Enough to draw a hypothosis and test it.

You have two choices. You can wait around for proof of everything and learn nothing. Or you can test and try things and learn something.

Maybe you should stop waiting for people to prove things to you and instead take an interest in learning things for yourself. Test and try things. It makes life fun.

Explain to me why children die of cancer if there is a god.

speaking of nazi conservatives


there were a number of attempts to kill/assassinate hitler....

ALL of them failed!

it was as if hitler was being protected by....god......

i can't worship a god that protects hitler, fixes football games, and intends to punish good people for all eternity simply for not believing in him

 

[logical4u]

A great quote that I'd heard a while ago.......

I'd rather live as if there WAS a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live like there ISN'T a God and die to find out there is.

What are you implying, that you only do the right thing because you think God is watching and judging?

You want to be close to G*d because: if He is merciful and allows you to go to heaven, it will be ecstasy for ever after, just from being close to Him (groupies have no idea how great it will be, comparitively speaking).
You do not want to offend G*d because: once you have been in His presence, and are forced to be away from Him, it will cause excruciating grief (if you were still in physical form, you would be insane).

 

[uscitizen]

A great quote that I'd heard a while ago.......

I'd rather live as if there WAS a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live like there ISN'T a God and die to find out there is.

What are you implying, that you only do the right thing because you think God is watching and judging?

You want to be close to G*d because: if He is merciful and allows you to go to heaven, it will be ecstasy for ever after, just from being close to Him (groupies have no idea how great it will be, comparitively speaking).
You do not want to offend G*d because: once you have been in His presence, and are forced to be away from Him, it will cause excruciating grief (if you were still in physical form, you would be insane).

A God junkie?

 

[HUGGY]

Religion is fraud on a global scale. If someone tried to sell what religion sells every day they would go to prison. How convenient for god that one has to be dead to get the rewards promised by Christians. You people are so stupid it just astounds me that you remember to breath.

 

[logical4u]

So I'm still not understanding what children cancer patients did or didn't do to deserve to be killed at such a young innocent age. Why doesn't God let them live full productive lives?
Maybe you can explain in layman's terms what this means in relation to children dying of cancer - "people utilize their self will and by not following God's direction, end up in places (or have things happen) that is away from Him, and then they die."

Please correct me where I have this wrong, but the way I'm reading what you wrote is that children with cancer, have cancer because they failed to follow the direction of God and the result they get is Cancer. Do I have that right?

I had a similar conversation with my preacher back when my Mom died from cancer, RDD, and I've taken his advice to heart,
When something happens I don't see it as "something bad happening TO me". It could be something good happening FOR someone else.
I recently lost a friend of mine. He dated a grand daughter of mine for years. He partied too hard with pills an booze.
Now there are 4 or 5 other people that just got a new lease of life.
There were several young people, at his memorial, that came up to speak about the lesson they have taken from his death.
This one death could, potentially, save dozens of others.

That's great that people learned something from his death. But what has a child done to deserve death at such a young age. What productive lesson could possibly be learned from hundreds of thousands of children dying of cancer every year? It doesn't add up.

Children are the result of "parents". What two people do to their bodies, can and does affect their children. People have "free will". If the Lord goes around stopping those that make bad decisions, free will is useless (people would not learn).
In some cases those that are sick, diseased, tortured are touching other people that the Lord is trying to reach. Their pain makes those around them "grow" as "humans". It does not seem fair to us that the Lord does not stop that, but we do not know how much the Lord is actually helping them: reducing the pain that they would feel, helping keep their spirits high, keeping them from sinking into self-pity. It is possible that when the Lord knows the pain of watching loved ones suffer is unbearable, He takes them to a much better place where they will never have to live thru the suffering and pain they would have had to endure as teenagers or adults. Once they are in His presence, all pain is forgotten.

While "His" hope would be that we all would just know of His love and His wish for us to do well, He has to let us do it for ourselves. To choose Him, takes faith.

 

[ABikerSailor]

It's evidence. Enough to draw a hypothosis and test it.

You have two choices. You can wait around for proof of everything and learn nothing. Or you can test and try things and learn something.

Maybe you should stop waiting for people to prove things to you and instead take an interest in learning things for yourself. Test and try things. It makes life fun.

Explain to me why children die of cancer if there is a god.

speaking of nazi conservatives


there were a number of attempts to kill/assassinate hitler....

ALL of them failed!

it was as if hitler was being protected by....god......

i can't worship a god that protects hitler, fixes football games, and intends to punish good people for all eternity simply for not believing in him

Are you sure it was God protecting Hitler? If so, wanna explain why God would want the eradication of His Chosen People? I don't thing it was God protecting Hitler, it was someone else...............think really LOW.

God doesn't fix football games either, that is done by greedy humans.

And does God punish people for all eternity? No. Read the Talmud and the Torah sometime.

As far as cancer? Anyone ever think of the possibility that cancer is kinda like polio, and mankind should work TOGETHER to find a cure? And by the way......as far as a cure for cancer, look up "cancer" and "nanodiamonds" sometime. Some VERY promising research on that front right now.

 

[logical4u]

What are you implying, that you only do the right thing because you think God is watching and judging?

You want to be close to G*d because: if He is merciful and allows you to go to heaven, it will be ecstasy for ever after, just from being close to Him (groupies have no idea how great it will be, comparitively speaking).
You do not want to offend G*d because: once you have been in His presence, and are forced to be away from Him, it will cause excruciating grief (if you were still in physical form, you would be insane).

A God junkie?

Beats the alternative!

 

[RDD_1210]

Explain to me why children die of cancer if there is a god.

speaking of nazi conservatives


there were a number of attempts to kill/assassinate hitler....

ALL of them failed!

it was as if hitler was being protected by....god......

i can't worship a god that protects hitler, fixes football games, and intends to punish good people for all eternity simply for not believing in him

Are you sure it was God protecting Hitler? If so, wanna explain why God would want the eradication of His Chosen People? I don't thing it was God protecting Hitler, it was someone else...............think really LOW.

Ok so look at the flip side then, why did God allow 6 million+ jews to be tortured and murdered? Let me guess, to teach us all another lesson? God sure does teach alot of lessons? You'd think the world would be a safer place today. LOL.

As far as cancer? Anyone ever think of the possibility that cancer is kinda like polio, and mankind should work TOGETHER to find a cure? And by the way......as far as a cure for cancer, look up "cancer" and "nanodiamonds" sometime. Some VERY promising research on that front right now.

Actually yes, mankind should work together to find a cure. That happens without God though since God is the one who decided to give children cancer to teach others a lesson apparently. So I guess God isn't all loving, more like a teacher who isn't very good at his job at getting his message across.

OR.....there is no invisible man in the sky watching us and teaching us lessons that don't really work and in reality kids die from cancer because that's just a fact of nature and how the cycle of life works. Which one seems more likely?

 

[ABikerSailor]

RDD, you're a Really Dumb Dude who can't look past their own nose.

Not up to me to convince you, because I do know and am happy about the answers.

It's only the self absorbed who want to deny something exists that try to use the arguments you've been using.

 

[RDD_1210]

I had a similar conversation with my preacher back when my Mom died from cancer, RDD, and I've taken his advice to heart,
When something happens I don't see it as "something bad happening TO me". It could be something good happening FOR someone else.
I recently lost a friend of mine. He dated a grand daughter of mine for years. He partied too hard with pills an booze.
Now there are 4 or 5 other people that just got a new lease of life.
There were several young people, at his memorial, that came up to speak about the lesson they have taken from his death.
This one death could, potentially, save dozens of others.

That's great that people learned something from his death. But what has a child done to deserve death at such a young age. What productive lesson could possibly be learned from hundreds of thousands of children dying of cancer every year? It doesn't add up.

Children are the result of "parents". What two people do to their bodies, can and does affect their children. People have "free will". If the Lord goes around stopping those that make bad decisions, free will is useless (people would not learn).
In some cases those that are sick, diseased, tortured are touching other people that the Lord is trying to reach. Their pain makes those around them "grow" as "humans". It does not seem fair to us that the Lord does not stop that, but we do not know how much the Lord is actually helping them: reducing the pain that they would feel, helping keep their spirits high, keeping them from sinking into self-pity. It is possible that when the Lord knows the pain of watching loved ones suffer is unbearable, He takes them to a much better place where they will never have to live thru the suffering and pain they would have had to endure as teenagers or adults. Once they are in His presence, all pain is forgotten.

While "His" hope would be that we all would just know of His love and His wish for us to do well, He has to let us do it for ourselves. To choose Him, takes faith.

LOL, so let me get this straight. Innocent children who have never harmed anyone are being killed by God because of something that their parents did? This is what you are claiming? That all children who die of cancer because their parents are evil? So God punishes the innocent due to the action of the evil? Doesn't seem like a person I'd vote for, for Mayor let alone pray to as my "god".

 

[RDD_1210]

RDD, you're a Really Dumb Dude who can't look past their own nose.

Not up to me to convince you, because I do know and am happy about the answers.

It's only the self absorbed who want to deny something exists that try to use the arguments you've been using.

Insults now?

I'm asking for explanations to the obviously flawed logic as to how God could let terrible things happen to innocent people. I've yet to hear a sensible response.

Don't get mad at me because you're entire world is based on lies and just the thought that there might not be a God scares you so much that you feel the need to insult people who offer counter-opinions.

I'd love if there was an invisible entity all around us, watching us and keeping us safe. But you look at the world and see the way things work and it makes me realize that no God could possibly let some of the horrible things happen that occur every day. So that makes me think that either god doesn't care, God has no power, OR........There is no God.

 

[ABikerSailor]

RDD, you're a Really Dumb Dude who can't look past their own nose.

Not up to me to convince you, because I do know and am happy about the answers.

It's only the self absorbed who want to deny something exists that try to use the arguments you've been using.

Insults now?

I'm asking for explanations to the obviously flawed logic as to how God could let terrible things happen to innocent people. I've yet to hear a sensible response.

Don't get mad at me because you're entire world is based on lies and just the thought that there might not be a God scares you so much that you feel the need to insult people who offer counter-opinions.

I'd love if there was an invisible entity all around us, watching us and keeping us safe. But you look at the world and see the way things work and it makes me realize that no God could possibly let some of the horrible things happen that occur every day. So that makes me think that either god doesn't care, God has no power, OR........There is no God.

Wrong.........basically you're like those idiots back in the 60's and early 70's who stated that the moon landing was a hoax. We really DID go there, and brought back rocks, but someone who thought the landing was faked would state those are just simple volcanic rocks that someone found.

You're doing the same thing with cancer and other things. God doesn't necessarily decide to off someone because He needs entertainment, but because YOU don't believe in something and act accordingly, you reinforce your own negative view of Him.

Try looking outside your own narrow views sometime and you may see it. By the way, my beliefs didn't start with Christianity, because the Christians had lied to me repeatedly, with many different varieties when I was younger. After I became a Taoist and saw things, I started to see where things were similar rather than different.

However, on this we can agree..........most of the views held by Christians (eternal damnation, their views on the SaTan as well as a few other things) ARE pretty much made up stories. No, the world is older than 6,000 years. Yes, God DOES love mankind because we are all a small piece of Him (that's what Yeshua was referring to when He stated "the Father and I are One"), and no, nobody goes to hell forever, that's a myth.

However, with the damage that you may have done to your soul and some of the dirt you've gotten on it by living this human existence may require that you need surgery, repair and cleaning.

Everyone gets into Heaven. Even Hitler, even you.

 

[rikules]

Explain to me why children die of cancer if there is a god.

speaking of nazi conservatives


there were a number of attempts to kill/assassinate hitler....

ALL of them failed!

it was as if hitler was being protected by....god......

i can't worship a god that protects hitler, fixes football games, and intends to punish good people for all eternity simply for not believing in him

Are you sure it was God protecting Hitler? If so, wanna explain why God would want the eradication of His Chosen People? I don't thing it was God protecting Hitler, it was someone else...............think really LOW.

God doesn't fix football games either, that is done by greedy humans.

And does God punish people for all eternity? No. Read the Talmud and the Torah sometime.

As far as cancer? Anyone ever think of the possibility that cancer is kinda like polio, and mankind should work TOGETHER to find a cure? And by the way......as far as a cure for cancer, look up "cancer" and "nanodiamonds" sometime. Some VERY promising research on that front right now.

"Are you sure it was God protecting Hitler? If so, wanna explain why God would want the eradication of His Chosen People? I don't thing it was God protecting Hitler, it was someone else...............think really LOW."


somebody really LOW...?

rush limbaugh?
ann coulter?
michael savage?

try to follow the following logic;

1. god is the most powerful being in the universe
2. more powerful than the devil
3. if god wanted to stop hitler the devil could NOT protect hitler
4. if the devil was able to protect hitler from all of those assassination attempts then that means god CHOSE to allow it
5. consequently...god CHOSE to allow the devil to protect hitler so that hitler could slaughter millions of innocent people


god is guilty of crimes against humanity

 

[RDD_1210]

RDD, you're a Really Dumb Dude who can't look past their own nose.

Not up to me to convince you, because I do know and am happy about the answers.

It's only the self absorbed who want to deny something exists that try to use the arguments you've been using.

Insults now?

I'm asking for explanations to the obviously flawed logic as to how God could let terrible things happen to innocent people. I've yet to hear a sensible response.

Don't get mad at me because you're entire world is based on lies and just the thought that there might not be a God scares you so much that you feel the need to insult people who offer counter-opinions.

I'd love if there was an invisible entity all around us, watching us and keeping us safe. But you look at the world and see the way things work and it makes me realize that no God could possibly let some of the horrible things happen that occur every day. So that makes me think that either god doesn't care, God has no power, OR........There is no God.

Wrong.........basically you're like those idiots back in the 60's and early 70's who stated that the moon landing was a hoax. We really DID go there, and brought back rocks, but someone who thought the landing was faked would state those are just simple volcanic rocks that someone found.

You're doing the same thing with cancer and other things. God doesn't necessarily decide to off someone because He needs entertainment, but because YOU don't believe in something and act accordingly, you reinforce your own negative view of Him.

Try looking outside your own narrow views sometime and you may see it. By the way, my beliefs didn't start with Christianity, because the Christians had lied to me repeatedly, with many different varieties when I was younger. After I became a Taoist and saw things, I started to see where things were similar rather than different.

That's one of the worst analogies I've ever heard. I never doubted the moon landing, no reason to. Why? There's physical evidence that it happened. I could SEE it with my own eyes.....that sort of thing helps the credibility. What actual physical evidence of God do you have. Faith and feeling love are not evidence of God.

I never said God kills people for entertainment, please don't put words in my mouth, but you still haven't told me why children die of cancer. Innocent children who don't need "their souls scrubbed". Is God killing them to teach someone else a lesson? Why didn't God protect the 6 million Jews who were tortured and murdered by Hitler? What lesson was God teaching us all a lesson there? That we shouldn't shove people in to ovens? Funny thing is, I don't need "lessons from God" to be able to figure out that you don't treat fellow humans like that.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Your logic is airtight in it's refusal to look at things. I can't help you with that, you're just gonna have to figure it out yourself.

No. God DOESN'T give people cancer, people do. Look at all the crap we put in our air, water and food as well as what we pollute the ground with.

Doctors have recently released a study that states cancer is much more prevalent today than it was hundreds of years ago.

 

[RDD_1210]

Your logic is airtight in it's refusal to look at things. I can't help you with that, you're just gonna have to figure it out yourself.

No. God DOESN'T give people cancer, people do. Look at all the crap we put in our air, water and food as well as what we pollute the ground with.

Doctors have recently released a study that states cancer is much more prevalent today than it was hundreds of years ago.

My logic is far from airtight, if I thought that I wouldn't bother trying to have this discussion and understand why people believe what they believe.

As to your points-
Ok fine. People give cancer to each other. No arguments here.

Next question -
Why doesn't God step in to at least help those that are truly innocent, yet are affected by mans actions which is no fault of their own?

 

[hortysir]

Children with cancer aren't being "killed" by God.
It's an ingrained human weakness put into motion by sin.

 

[logical4u]

That's great that people learned something from his death. But what has a child done to deserve death at such a young age. What productive lesson could possibly be learned from hundreds of thousands of children dying of cancer every year? It doesn't add up.

Children are the result of "parents". What two people do to their bodies, can and does affect their children. People have "free will". If the Lord goes around stopping those that make bad decisions, free will is useless (people would not learn).
In some cases those that are sick, diseased, tortured are touching other people that the Lord is trying to reach. Their pain makes those around them "grow" as "humans". It does not seem fair to us that the Lord does not stop that, but we do not know how much the Lord is actually helping them: reducing the pain that they would feel, helping keep their spirits high, keeping them from sinking into self-pity. It is possible that when the Lord knows the pain of watching loved ones suffer is unbearable, He takes them to a much better place where they will never have to live thru the suffering and pain they would have had to endure as teenagers or adults. Once they are in His presence, all pain is forgotten.

While "His" hope would be that we all would just know of His love and His wish for us to do well, He has to let us do it for ourselves. To choose Him, takes faith.

LOL, so let me get this straight. Innocent children who have never harmed anyone are being killed by God because of something that their parents did? This is what you are claiming? That all children who die of cancer because their parents are evil? So God punishes the innocent due to the action of the evil? Doesn't seem like a person I'd vote for, for Mayor let alone pray to as my "god".

I never said they "were killed by G*d". I said that if someone poisons their body (knowingly or not), it will be passed to their children. Have you ever seen "crack babies"? That was not G*d. That was uncaring parents. I did not say the parents were "evil". I said the children live with the parents' choices.
People were given the ability to reason, as a gift from G*d. It is also called "free will". Cancer is tricky, it can be hereditary, caused by environment, and can be manipulated thru diet (for progressing or retracting). To declare the each and every case "is caused by G*d" is extreme denial of a person's choices.
I know of no case of cancer where the patient claimed that the Lord "gave it to them". I do know of people that had cancer that claimed the Lord "gave them the strength to deal with it" physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and in some cases, cured it.
I wonder about your bitterness. If you are so willing to blame the Lord for all the terrible things, are you willing to give Him praise for all the good things in the world: a child's smile, a beautiful sky, scenery, having something you were looking for placed where you happened to be, not necessarily looking there, love, compassion, generosity, kindess and helping others?
I am sorry that you can not praise the Lord. Are you grateful for anything?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Your logic is airtight in it's refusal to look at things. I can't help you with that, you're just gonna have to figure it out yourself.

No. God DOESN'T give people cancer, people do. Look at all the crap we put in our air, water and food as well as what we pollute the ground with.

Doctors have recently released a study that states cancer is much more prevalent today than it was hundreds of years ago.

My logic is far from airtight, if I thought that I wouldn't bother trying to have this discussion and understand why people believe what they believe.

As to your points-
Ok fine. People give cancer to each other. No arguments here.

Next question -
Why doesn't God step in to at least help those that are truly innocent, yet are affected by mans actions which is no fault of their own?

You think God doesn't step in to help the innocent? Ever watch the news and see "miracle stories" like a stranger in NY who saw a little girl fall off the ferry and saved her, only nobody ever found out who he was? How about some of the miracle stories like a dude back in 2005 or 06 who fell off a bridge and survived for over 36 hours in cold weather on top of a concrete piling with his bones broken?

Yes, God DOES save people. And, for some of those people He saves, He sends in people like me, who've got the experience (child abuse and a bunch of other things I survived), to go in and save others before they hurt or kill themselves?

Want to know 2 areas where I excelled in my service career? Suicide prevention and alcoholism counselor. Why was I so good at it? Went through some of it myself with various family members, and even almost offed myself a couple of times prior to age 30.

Want to know something else? I'm grateful for the horrible experiences of my life, because I survived them, as well as know how to help others through them too.

Nope, sorry.......God exists.

 

[RDD_1210]

Children are the result of "parents". What two people do to their bodies, can and does affect their children. People have "free will". If the Lord goes around stopping those that make bad decisions, free will is useless (people would not learn).
In some cases those that are sick, diseased, tortured are touching other people that the Lord is trying to reach. Their pain makes those around them "grow" as "humans". It does not seem fair to us that the Lord does not stop that, but we do not know how much the Lord is actually helping them: reducing the pain that they would feel, helping keep their spirits high, keeping them from sinking into self-pity. It is possible that when the Lord knows the pain of watching loved ones suffer is unbearable, He takes them to a much better place where they will never have to live thru the suffering and pain they would have had to endure as teenagers or adults. Once they are in His presence, all pain is forgotten.

While "His" hope would be that we all would just know of His love and His wish for us to do well, He has to let us do it for ourselves. To choose Him, takes faith.

LOL, so let me get this straight. Innocent children who have never harmed anyone are being killed by God because of something that their parents did? This is what you are claiming? That all children who die of cancer because their parents are evil? So God punishes the innocent due to the action of the evil? Doesn't seem like a person I'd vote for, for Mayor let alone pray to as my "god".

I never said they "were killed by G*d". I said that if someone poisons their body (knowingly or not), it will be passed to their children. Have you ever seen "crack babies"? That was not G*d. That was uncaring parents. I did not say the parents were "evil". I said the children live with the parents' choices.
People were given the ability to reason, as a gift from G*d. It is also called "free will". Cancer is tricky, it can be hereditary, caused by environment, and can be manipulated thru diet (for progressing or retracting). To declare the each and every case "is caused by G*d" is extreme denial of a person's choices.
I know of no case of cancer where the patient claimed that the Lord "gave it to them". I do know of people that had cancer that claimed the Lord "gave them the strength to deal with it" physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and in some cases, cured it.
I wonder about your bitterness. If you are so willing to blame the Lord for all the terrible things, are you willing to give Him praise for all the good things in the world: a child's smile, a beautiful sky, scenery, having something you were looking for placed where you happened to be, not necessarily looking there, love, compassion, generosity, kindess and helping others?
I am sorry that you can not praise the Lord. Are you grateful for anything?

So if God didn't cause peoples cancer, why didn't he prevent it? I'm not blaming God for anything, I can't put blame on something I don't think exists. But how do you put your faith in something that either doesn't care about us or has no ability to make a difference in what happens to us.

I am grateful for MANY things. But how does any of those things that I, or you are grateful for prove that God exists?