Do you support unions?

[Ray From Cleveland]

If we did what Libertarians and Cons wanted we'd have a small ruling class, small merchant class and the masses would be known as the rabble.

We already saw this once. Over in England. Tiny Tim? Ebanezer Scrooge? Let the rich go unchecked and we see America turning into it. And they've convinced you it's us. It's unions "ruining" America. For who? They're fucking richer than ever. Ever since the 70's. Ever since Reagan.

Have you noticed Ray? The rich are doing great. Fucking great! They won't share. Wake up.

So what would you like them to share? If it's profits, business doesn't work that way unless you have profit sharing as a benefit. If you want to get paid based on growth, that's what sales jobs are for. If you don't want a sales job, there are jobs that pay piece work. You get paid based on how fast you can produce products for your company.

 

[Papageorgio]

If you want a union and it is voted, fine. That is the choice of the employees. My opinion on public union is fine however they should not have collective bargaining and hold it over states and the voters. Pretty similar to FDR’s view.

 

[sealybobo]

So what would you like them to share? If it's profits, business doesn't work that way unless you have profit sharing as a benefit. If you want to get paid based on growth, that's what sales jobs are for. If you don't want a sales job, there are jobs that pay piece work. You get paid based on how fast you can produce products for your company.

Listen Ray. My brother is a VP of HR. I know how it works at the top when labor doesn't have a seat at the table. I know how things work ever since unions went from 35% of our work force down to 9%. Here's how it works.

CEO "what are you going to give me next year sealybobo's brother?
Sealybobo's brother "how much do you want"
CEO "as much as you'll give me"

Knowing this CEO is going to give my brother his raise.

And all the board members of his company are CEO's of other companies. They know how it works. Now that labor doesn't have a seat at the table.

You'll make excuses no matter what I say. Go ahead, your turn ray.

 

[sealybobo]

The vast majority of people who enter the real estate profession fail. The year I was president of our local board, I looked at our membership records fairly closely. Eighty percent of newbies joining the board were gone before they reached three years. It is a tough profession but can be extremely rewarding.

In a way, it's a bit like opening a law practice and then going to law school. Your first day in the business, you don't know diddly squat. You know real estate law, but nothing about how to list and sell real estate.

Flat out, bald-faced lie that Republicans only want to pay minimum wage. Grow up.

Nor should you be able to raise a family on minimum wage. That's just goofy.

You may disagree with what I said but also consider this. If I tell you right now to go get a better job, you actually can go get a better job. Have you heard of the Great Resignation? It's never been a better time to go get a better job. But you have to go interview and get the job. You're probably too lazy to do it.

 

[sealybobo]

If you want a union and it is voted, fine. That is the choice of the employees. My opinion on public union is fine however they should not have collective bargaining and hold it over states and the voters. Pretty similar to FDR’s view.

Collective bargaining is one way to shrink the gap between the rich and middle class. When companies don't do collective bargaining, they under pay employees. Is that what you want?

There are other ways to combat this. Employees should be encouraged to discuss with other employees what they make. But you and me both know corporations frown on that.

And companies should have to post what the job pays on the job boards. No leaving it open so you can underpay minorities and women, which is what we see happening. Biden is trying to make this happen. Collective bargaining isn't the only way to get corporations to start paying what we are worth.

Clearly they are only paying us what they absolutely must.

Not my company. My company actually pays me what I'm worth. In my opinion. But I've worked for many companies who did everything to NOT pay you what you are worth.

I've seen companies say, "build your database of customers and get paid 15%". Then when you build up $2 million dollars a year in business, they change the rules because they don't want to pay you $300,000 a year. Take away your biggest accounts and make them "house" accounts. All kinds of shady tactics.

Think about all the companies in America who are not unionized if you asked the employees right now, without fear of being fired or the company closing, how many employees would say fuck yea. Or if they could afford going on strike. I don't know how the Auto union workers did it. To go a few weeks without a paycheck? Most Americans today shit their pants after the economy got shut down for 2 weeks. Stimulus checks started flying 2 weeks after the shutdown.

 

[Markle]

You may disagree with what I said but also consider this. If I tell you right now to go get a better job, you actually can go get a better job. Have you heard of the Great Resignation? It's never been a better time to go get a better job. But you have to go interview and get the job. You're probably too lazy to do it.

Why do you childishly find it necessary to attempt to insult me?

I LOVE my job. It was an incredible career that afforded me opportunities I never would have had in the field of my degree. Why does that bother you?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Listen Ray. My brother is a VP of HR. I know how it works at the top when labor doesn't have a seat at the table. I know how things work ever since unions went from 35% of our work force down to 9%. Here's how it works.

CEO "what are you going to give me next year sealybobo's brother?
Sealybobo's brother "how much do you want"
CEO "as much as you'll give me"

Knowing this CEO is going to give my brother his raise.

And all the board members of his company are CEO's of other companies. They know how it works. Now that labor doesn't have a seat at the table.

You'll make excuses no matter what I say. Go ahead, your turn ray.

No, you don't have a seat at the table. The job is X. This job pays X money. You either accept the job or you don't. It's that simple. If you wait a year and ask for a pay increase and they don't give you one, then you are free to go to another company. That's your seat at the table.

Now if you can't get a job that pays more money, then it's not the company at fault, it's you that's at fault. Your skill set or past performance doesn't warrant a pay increase. The solution is to find a field of work that does pay the money that would satisfy you.

 

[initforme]

thanks to unions china is now doing all our manufacturing

Ok so then people cannot live on the wages employers pay. What's your answer? Yep you got nothing at all. I bet you expect people to work their best for lower wages.

 

[Papageorgio]

Listen Ray. My brother is a VP of HR. I know how it works at the top when labor doesn't have a seat at the table. I know how things work ever since unions went from 35% of our work force down to 9%. Here's how it works.

CEO "what are you going to give me next year sealybobo's brother?
Sealybobo's brother "how much do you want"
CEO "as much as you'll give me"

Knowing this CEO is going to give my brother his raise.

And all the board members of his company are CEO's of other companies. They know how it works. Now that labor doesn't have a seat at the table.

You'll make excuses no matter what I say. Go ahead, your turn ray.

Why have we went from 35% to only 9% union members?

 

[Papageorgio]

Ok so then people cannot live on the wages employers pay. What's your answer? Yep you got nothing at all. I bet you expect people to work their best for lower wages.

Do you work in a union?

 

[Papageorgio]

Collective bargaining is one way to shrink the gap between the rich and middle class. When companies don't do collective bargaining, they under pay employees. Is that what you want?

There are other ways to combat this. Employees should be encouraged to discuss with other employees what they make. But you and me both know corporations frown on that.

And companies should have to post what the job pays on the job boards. No leaving it open so you can underpay minorities and women, which is what we see happening. Biden is trying to make this happen. Collective bargaining isn't the only way to get corporations to start paying what we are worth.

Clearly they are only paying us what they absolutely must.

Not my company. My company actually pays me what I'm worth. In my opinion. But I've worked for many companies who did everything to NOT pay you what you are worth.

I've seen companies say, "build your database of customers and get paid 15%". Then when you build up $2 million dollars a year in business, they change the rules because they don't want to pay you $300,000 a year. Take away your biggest accounts and make them "house" accounts. All kinds of shady tactics.

Think about all the companies in America who are not unionized if you asked the employees right now, without fear of being fired or the company closing, how many employees would say fuck yea. Or if they could afford going on strike. I don't know how the Auto union workers did it. To go a few weeks without a paycheck? Most Americans today shit their pants after the economy got shut down for 2 weeks. Stimulus checks started flying 2 weeks after the shutdown.

Companies having collective bargaining is fine by me. Public employee having collective bargaining is a way to hold the taxpayers hostage, FDR agreed with me.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Your opinion. Why do teacher unions hate school choice?

School choice allow students to attend religious schools that have unqualified teachers, costing teacher jobs in the public schools.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Companies having collective bargaining is fine by me. Public employee having collective bargaining is a way to hold the taxpayers hostage, FDR agreed with me.

You agree with an idiot. So what?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ok so then people cannot live on the wages employers pay. What's your answer?

Gain a skill where you can make better money. Plenty of them out there today.

 

[Papageorgio]

You agree with an idiot. So what?

I didn't agree with you, idiot!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Unions are like governments, get to much money and power,
Then as the saying go's,
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Try that post again in English!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I didn't agree with you, idiot!

Can't read either? Typical.

 

[initforme]

Do you work in a union?

Nope. Been retired for a long time. But low labor wages equal a country that is behind. Want people to work hard then pay them more. Want them to work less hard pay less. Wages AND effort are tied together.

 

[Markle]

Ok so then people cannot live on the wages employers pay. What's your answer? Yep you got nothing at all. I bet you expect people to work their best for lower wages.

How is it your employer's fault that you have not made yourself more valuable to an employer?

Yes, employees who work their best, soon will earn more! Funny how that works isn't it?

Another option is to take on a part-time job as well while making yourself more valuable to your primary employer.

 

[task0778]

Want people to work hard then pay them more.

Numerous studies over the last 100 years or more have shown that money is not much of a motivator to work harder.

The fact that there is little evidence to show that money motivates us, and a great deal of evidence to suggest that it actually demotivates us, supports the idea that that there may be hidden costs associated with rewards.

Does Money Really Affect Motivation? A Review of the Research

We all need to get paid. But the evidence suggests it undermines our intrinsic motivations.

hbr.org

Why would anybody work harder if you paid them more money now? What if they don't work harder after you give them more money? Seems to me like you would pay them more money AFTER they worked harder and became more productive. And if the employer doesn't pay them more, then the worker can go find another job and the employer has to find another worker and train them to do the job. These days, that ain't cheap.