Do you support unions?

[Papageorgio]

War on unions. Corporate Greed my friend.

There used to be a social contract corporations had with workers. You sort of had a right to your job. Most people could expect to work for 1 company for 30 years and retire with enough money to live out their lives happy. Baby Boomers know what I'm talking about. They even got pensions! And their parents left them a lot of money. And school was cheap.

Anyways, Jack Welch at GE in the 70's changed all that. Corporate profits went through the roof. He fired the bottom 10% every year no matter what. Record profits this year? Still, the bottom 10% have to go.

Remember the war you, Republicans and George Bush waged on unions in the 2000's?

Also, GW stopped going after illegal employers. Hugo Chavez head of the unions warned us about illegals and companies who would hire them and what that would do to American workers.

Got a link to support your opinion or is this all opinion?

 

[sealybobo]

Got a link to support your opinion or is this all opinion?

It's history

'Neutron Jack' fired thousands of GE workers and helped the rise of 'Trumpism'. A new book explains why he was wrong

Former General Electric CEO Jack Welch was responsible for the worst of the US economic system, says New York Times reporter and author David Gelles.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[sealybobo]

Got a link to support your opinion or is this all opinion?

Books have been written about this.

Short-term profits and long-term consequences — did Jack Welch break capitalism?

The General Electric CEO wowed investors and mingled with celebrities. But <em>New York Times</em> correspondent David Gelles says Welch's aggressive tactics also caused irreparable harm to American industry.

www.wbur.org

Short-term profits and long-term consequences — did Jack Welch break capitalism?​

 

[Catsnmeters]

As much I suspected. Without them, you likely couldn't get or hold a job.

With three journeyman tickets, a bachelor's degree, 9 years active military service and a relay test certification from the TVA?

I think I'll be ok, with or without the union, Skippy.

 

[Grumblenuts]

They claim to be a bipartisan geoup and they aren’t as it leans heavy to the left, So lying right out of the gate taints their whole research. You are free to believe whatever you want, not my issue, I won’t.

They claim to be "nonpartisan" not "bipartisan." You previously alleged "The top three staff members are Democrats" but have now switched to (lean) "heavy to the left" apparently having utterly failed to substantiate all three being registered Democrats. You seem to be the only one "lying right out of the gate" to avoid straightforwardly addressing my questions.

Assuming three people could somehow be "bipartisan" what difference would that make regarding why "we went from 35% to only 9% union" membership? The transparent truth is you never actually gave a shit to begin with. It has never been your "issue" and you'll just continue "to believe whatever you want" -- projecting your character flaws upon others like so many of your fellow determined idiots here.

 

[task0778]

School choice allow students to attend religious schools that have unqualified teachers, costing teacher jobs in the public schools.

Public schools also have unqualified teachers too, or those who should not be in a classroom with youngsters for a variety of reasons. School choice allows parents to make the choice of where to send their kids to be educated; that is their prerogative, not yours.

 

[jc456]

I don't mind that. If they (the union) believes one party is the labor party (The Democrats) then they should be allowed to endorse/support one party.

what if the members who's dues they're using don't want those political figures? Fk them? hahaahahahhhaa and then you cry about unions dissolving. If you can't see the issue, you probably are the issue.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Parents have always had the "choice" or right to send their brats to private schools. Governments here, otoh, have never had any right to divert public school funds to private interest schools, particularly those promoting or "establishing" one religion over another.
School choice is "simply another word for discrimination."

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Public schools also have unqualified teachers too, or those who should not be in a classroom with youngsters for a variety of reasons. School choice allows parents to make the choice of where to send their kids to be educated; that is their prerogative, not yours.

True, in an extremely small number of cases. Not enough for you to make such a claim.

 

[task0778]

True, in an extremely small number of cases. Not enough for you to make such a claim.

Bullshit.

Across the nation, but particularly in states like Oklahoma and Arizona where educators have long been frustrated or deterred by a lack of classroom resources and extremely low pay, the teacher shortage has grown acute this year. Hundreds of thousands of students across the U.S. are being taught this year by unqualified or under-qualified instructors, estimates the national non-profit, nonpartisan Learning Policy Institute (LPI). The consequences for students, who strongly benefit from high-quality teachers, is likely to be enormous.

Back to School Without a Qualified Teacher | NEA

Putting under-trained teachers in classrooms only harms students and exacerbates teacher shortages across the country.

www.nea.org

AND


As schools across the South grapple with vacancies, many turn to those without teaching certificates or formal training to serve students.

Texas allowed about 1 in 5 new teachers to sidestep certification last school year. Alabama administrators, meanwhile, increasingly hire educators with emergency certifications, often in low-income and majority Black neighborhoods.

In Oklahoma, lawmakers expanded an “adjunct” program that enables schools to hire applicants without teacher training if they meet a local board’s qualifications. And then there’s Florida, where military veterans without a bachelor’s degree can teach for up to five years using temporary certificates.

These states provide a window into the patchwork approach across the South that allows those without traditional training to lead a classroom. Officials must determine if it’s better to hire these adults, even if they aren’t fully prepared, or let children end up in crowded classes or with substitutes.

Uncertified teachers filling holes in schools across the South

As schools across the South grapple with vacancies, many turn to those without teaching certificates or formal training to serve students.

www.dallasnews.com

I suspect the ratio of unqualified or underqualified teachers in private schools is somewhat lower than that in public schools. Why? Maybe it's cuz private schools don't have a teachers union to support them. and keep them employed.

 

[toobfreak]

I think I'll be ok, with or without the union

If you say so, Skippy, but obviously, you think being with a terrible union of Trump people a necessary crutch for you. Oh and, that BA? These days, people with those are about as educated as a kid was getting out of high school years ago. Kids today getting out of high-school are mostly idiots. But you obviously don't expect much out of life.

 

[jc456]

"nonpartisan" not "bipartisan.

what the fk are you saying?

 

[Catsnmeters]

If you say so, Skippy, but obviously, you think being with a terrible union of Trump people a necessary crutch for you.

Obviously? It's your claim not mine. Lol.

Oh and, that BA? These days, people with those are about as educated as a kid was getting out of high school years ago. Kids today getting out of high-school are mostly idiots. But you obviously don't expect much out of life.

Well I graduated high school quite a few years ago as well as got my BA a few years ago so guess your education attack doesn't really apply to me.

 

[toobfreak]

Obviously? It's your claim not mine.

I didn't claim I needed to be in a union full of deplorables, you did.

Well I graduated high school quite a few years ago as well as got my BA a few years ago

In other words, you're a high-school grad who went back years later and eked out a BA from some junior college because you couldn't get as job otherwise.

 

[Catsnmeters]

I didn't claim I needed to be in a union full of deplorables, you did.

Being Trump supporters does not make them deplorable. Stop hanging onto to Hillary's statement.

In other words, you're a high-school grad who went back years later and eked out a BA from some junior college because you couldn't get as job otherwise.

Junior colleges typically don't give out BA degrees.

Yes, I went back using the GI bill after serving 9 years in the active military.

Are you going to disparage going back to school now? What the fuck?

 

[Grumblenuts]

what the fk are you saying?

To you? "Piss off, troll." <-- always.

 

[Rumpole]

I believe that over 95% of America supports unions. But I wonder if that was the case in the 1940s or maybe it has changed today. I want to be able to convince as many people as possible here that unions are pro American, they are pro Christian they are pro traditions. They are pro civil liberties, they are pro second amendment, they are pro police and pro firefighters and pro military.

Yes there are corrupt union leaders yes they are corrupt teachers, yes there are corrupt police officers, yes there are corrupt members of the NAACP, yes there are corrupt members of the United States government. There’s corruption in every country in the world. America stands out as the most liberal and free country at all of human history. Our middle class, our military , and our economy is the best in the world because of American greatness, Because of our glorious victory in World War II where we saved the free world with our brave Soviet , Chinese and British allies ….and because of the steel workers and United States military, and the will of the American men and women through history…they all made our country great and glorious.

Rather than going to a very long post as I often do I’ll make this as short as possible. I can’t think of a better image and video to show then the one below. Because after all all of the conservatives here who say they love America who say they stand by the Second Amendment, who they who say they stand by family, Christianity and American traditions I only ask you to just look briefly at the following video because the very people you aspire to be …well they are the men and the women of the following video. The steel workers of the following video who contributed to World War II who fought in World War II. Who fought in the Vietnam war who came home and who were able to get a steel job that set them for life. I can’t think of anything else to bring forward to prove my point gentlemen and ladies. I can’t think of anything else other than this. These were and are unionized workers these are steel workers.



That is patriotism^

The power of American steel we see that above. The power of American greatness in manufacturing we see this above. Our bridges are roads, our road signs and so much more come from steel. Just the term “American steel” sounds so awesome and strong.

A union wouldn't be needed as long as it is true that in many corporations -- their attitude is 'we'll pay them as little as they will accept--as little as we can get away with'. The problem with a big company like that which is non union, there is an imbalance insofar as the bargaining position of the big corporation compared to that of one little employee. Without a union, a group of employees could say they won't show up for work if they don't get a raise or improve working conditions (or whatever the grievance is) but the corporation could easily replace the workers and other workers do not have to oblige and show up for work, and most, without a union backing, wouldn't go along with the idea in the first place. This leaves a worker with just about zero bargaining power to achieve better pay, pay adequate for the work, not to mention benefits and working conditions. With a union comes bargaining parity with the corporation.

But, just as corporations can abuse their workers, there is the potential for union corruption, and that is an issue, really, which is a separate issue. My point is, I'm all for unions as a principle, and with the consent, by vote, of workers, unions have a right to approach any work place, at a convenient time for the corporation, to appeal to the workers and have a vote. If a company is treating workers well, and workers, overall are satisfied, they are less likely to rock the boat and vote for a union. But, where a corporation is exploiting workers, taking advantage of their weak bargaining power, such workers are far more inclined to vote for union membership. Unions should have the force of law behind them, as a legal and just entity, just as long as they act in good faith for their members. It's all about fairness, getting decent pay and benefits, etc., for one's skillset, and bargaining parity.

As a man of 22 years of age, the non skilled worker in Los Angeles in 1973 was about $2 per hour. Officially, the federal minimum wage was less than that, but that was what a non skilled worker could easily have earned in Los Angeles, during those early years, and I know this because I held a few manual labor jobs in Los Angeles during that time and that pay was ubiquitous in L.A then. Later, I got a job as a swamper with Allied Van Lines, a union shop, and the pay was $6.15 an hour, which, in those days, was really good money, on par with skilled labor in a number of places. My one bedroom apartment was $100 per month. So, I could have rented a small house if I had wanted to.

I could never have earned that kind of money without the help of the union. I later moved to New York City and got another job with a union shop, where the pay was enough to afford the expensive rents there. My experience with unions has been nothing but positive. I earned more than I could have, with more benefits than I could have had, but for the union, and that is after union dues.

I'm pro union all the way.

 

[jc456]

To you? "Piss off, troll." <-- always.

deranged as usual.

 

[jc456]

a union shop, and the pay was $6.15 an hour,

how much were the dues?

BTW, I made 4.00 per hour non union shop

 

[task0778]

A union wouldn't be needed as long as it is true that in many corporations -- their attitude is 'we'll pay them as little as they will accept--as little as we can get away with'. The problem with a big company like that which is non union, there is an imbalance insofar as the bargaining position of the big corporation compared to that of one little employee. Without a union, a group of employees could say they won't show up for work if they don't get a raise or improve working conditions (or whatever the grievance is) but the corporation could easily replace the workers and other workers do not have to oblige and show up for work, and most, without a union backing, wouldn't go along with the idea in the first place. This leaves a worker with just about zero bargaining power to achieve better pay, pay adequate for the work, not to mention benefits and working conditions. With a union comes bargaining parity with the corporation.

Employers - big and small - will pay their employees whatever the market will bear, which is NOT as little as they will accept because then your employees will gain some experience and quit for another job. And BTW, nobody holds a gun to your head and says you will work here and we'll pay you as little as possible, in this country you can tell them to go to hell anytime you want to. And then there's the staffing and training issue: if your business has a high turnover rate for your employees then you're spending a lot money to find, hire, and train people to do the job. I think you'll find that for most businesses you actually save money in other ways by paying your people more than the going market rate.

You do understand that higher labor costs will drive up the price of the product or service, right? That is the primary reason why foreign countries can make products and ship them over here and at a lower cost than the same domestic product. And don't try to tell me the domestic product or service is of better quality and therefore worth more, cuz it isn't.

Federal law says that employees can unionize anywhere, but they cannot force people to join it or pay dues. It's not like the union has to represent every employee whether they are dues-paying members or not. They can decide not to support me and I can decide not to join their union. And I see nothing wrong with that.