Zone1 Do you get a lot of misogyny when you ditch MARY in your religion?

[Meriweather]

What I think you fail to realize is that the CC has added layer upon layer of tradition over top the Gospel to the point that an awful lot of Catholics don't discern the Spirit, don't know what worship is, and think that going to Mass and confession twice a year, plus Grandma being devout will open the gates of Heaven for them. This problem has taken root in many other denominations as well, where people think that they're Christians because their family has attended this church or that church for generations, or because they do a few pious things every now and then.

Keep in mind I have been Catholic my entire life, lived in many different areas, and therefore have been part of many Catholic parishes. Therefore I know what you fail to realize:

The Catholic Church has ALWAYS (not added along the way) observed both scripture and Apostolic tradition. We did not drop any of it along the way.

If you have this idea that Catholics do not discern the Spirit, then I am afraid it is you who may not be discerning the Spirit as you cannot even seem to recognize the Spirit when He shines through fellow Catholic Christians.

My best friend was the daughter of a minister, and you don't think anyone but Catholics have what was termed in here denomination, C & Eers (Christmas and Easter drop-ins)? Yet you want to broad-brush ALL Catholics by a few.

Unlike those "other denominations where the problem has taken root" Catholics are clear in differentiating between practicing Catholics and non-practicing Catholics. We believe we are still in the same Catholic family, but there is that known distinction.

 

[hadit]

animal sacrifice was a tradition the Church obviously rejected

But the protestants rejected a lot of things that the Original Church Christ founded WANTED to remain

As someone once said "To be deep in history is to cease being Protestant"

If the early church had not thrown off tradition, you would still be not only offering sacrifices, but expected to live under the Mosaic Law. The CC ADDS traditions and does not remove them.

 

[Meriweather]

You're a Catholic. You're not supposed to make mistakes!

(kidding--I get the feeling people think that about Catholics)

Worse, I am a teacher and not supposed to make mistakes! Especially one like that, with what was in my brain not reaching my fingers.

 

[hadit]

I am ticked off that you would even consider I would think that! Deep breath and moving on...

I have to ask because I have heard that expressed. My wife, though a devout Christian, was told by her friend when she attended Mass that she could not take Communion because she was not a Catholic. That is non-Biblical and completely wrong. If Christians exist in all denominations, as you say, there can be no defense of that practice. Hence the need for the question. One of your fellow Catholics is also in this thread disparaging all non-Catholic denominations quite gleefully. Hence the need for the question.

 

[Meriweather]

this reminds me of that Personal relationship with Jesus thing

Yes, and what bugs me both about the "personal relationship" and the "God and me along" philosophies is the failure to see God in the entire Body of Christ, even in all of humanity. That "God and me" claim against "all you others" is a gigantic separation from God--in my opinion. To not recognize God/Christ in one another raises doubts whether one can even recognize God at all.

That being said, Yes, we all have our own special one-on-one with God. But it is also a blessing to have that kind of relationship with everyone in His family, and recognize the multitude that makes up that family.

 

[Meriweather]

The CC ADDS traditions and does not remove them.

For example?

 

[hadit]

this reminds me of that Personal relationship with Jesus thing

Why is there such a focus on a PERSONAL rather than a public relationship? I mean, yeh, you want both (if you are healthy).

I think it is an excuse, actually... An acquaintance I had years ago, when I suggested we pray together (or something like that) said "I think people should pray in private, when no one is around."

And I was like.. Uh... yeh.. whatever.

This person was NOT a devout Christian. He was a fallen-away Catholic, though he did retain some of the Catholic teachings on morals/ethics.

I'm today thinking: Yeh.. just what Satan ordered: Keep your damn faith to yourself.. Separation of Church and State (which was never meant to keep the Church out of govt.. It was designed to keep the govt out of the Church.) .

Making our relationship with God a personal one defeats the whole idea that simple membership in a group does anything for your salvation. Saying, "I'm a Christian (be that Catholic or other denomination) because I attend services and know the songs", but there's no repentance in the heart, no fruit of the Spirit and no true relationship with God, does no good. We would not expect a happily married person to keep quiet about a spouse they love dearly, so we would also not expect someone in love with God to keep quiet about Him. Christians of all denominations should be able to freely pray and worship with each other.

 

[hadit]

For example?

That Communion is not a shared meal and requires no preparation on the congregants' part. Many other denominations do that as well, but I think it removes something valuable from the experience. That people can be deified and literally become something more than other humans. That praying, "Help me, St Peter" is as effective as praying, "Help me Lord Jesus". That the Pope's writings are infallible. That infant baptism does anything for the child's soul. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is what I've understood.

 

[GMCGeneral]

more now than ever..

She is great

Big problem with that, G-d calls it idolatry. You should be praying to Christ alone. Mary is just a mere sinner like the rest of us, in need or a Redeemer like the rest of us. The Catholic church was responsible for much bloodshed over the centuries including the Third Reich and the Holocaust.

 

[Meriweather]

My wife, though a devout Christian, was told by her friend when she attended Mass that she could not take Communion, because she was not a Catholic. That is non-Biblical and completely wrong.

Is your wife a Methodist? Most Non-Catholic denominations hold no belief in Transubstantiation and therefore do not believe Communion is the true Body and Blood of Christ. Also, we 'receive' Communion (Christ's Body and Blood), we do not 'take' it.

Should your wife receive the Catholic Eucharist, she is proclaiming that she is receive the actual body and blood of Christ. Does your wife hold this belief? Or does she believe she in commemorating the Last Supper?

Paul notes no one should receive Communion unworthily. If your wife receives Communion in the Catholic Church without this belief, she is receiving under false pretenses which falls under unworthily. She is best served by receiving communion with those who do it in memory, as this is their shared belief.

 

[notmyfault2020]

If you have this idea that Catholics do not discern the Spirit, then I am afraid it is you who may not be discerning the Spirit as you cannot even seem to recognize the Spirit when He shines through fellow Catholic Christians.

I enjoyed reading all of this but particularly this line.

I mean, what part of Catholics are not Bad People do some of the Protestants not understand?

The Catholic Church has been against abortion since Christ founded it
against slavery also throughout the centuries
stood up to King Henry VIII when he wanted to divorce his (unwilling to divorce) wife

I could go on and on but yeh.. I've noticed how unwilling Protestants are to say ANYTHING at all good about Catholics.. THAT alone is scary RE Protestantism. If a martian came to Earth and didn't know much about either Catholic or P.. I'm thinking that if he wanted to choose one of them, he would reject Protestantism on that basis alone.. that they see no good in Catholics (or so go my perceptions of a majority of them..)

 

[Meriweather]

That Communion is not a shared meal and requires no preparation on the congregants' part. Many other denominations do that as well, but I think it removes something valuable from the experience. That people can be deified and literally become something more than other humans. That praying, "Help me, St Peter" is as effective as praying, "Help me Lord Jesus". That the Pope's writings are infallible. That infant baptism does anything for the child's soul. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is what I've understood.

Receiving communion involves a statement of belief in what is transpiring. In the Catholic and Orthodox Faiths, in many Methodist denominations, we share the belief that we are partaking the actual body and blood of Christ. If one does not hold this belief, one should not act and pretend as though they do.

Most non-Catholic denominations believe they are sharing a meal in remembrance of Christ. There is nothing wrong with that. When many denominations separated from the Catholic faith over fifteen hundred years ago, they dropped the belief in Transubstantiation. The Catholic and Orthodox faiths retained it.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Big problem with that, G-d calls it idolatry. You should be praying to Christ alone. Mary is just a mere sinner like the rest of us, in need or a Redeemer like the rest of us. The Catholic church was responsible for much bloodshed over the centuries including the Third Reich and the Holocaust.

you can believe what you want and I will believe what benefits me (and others)

 

[notmyfault2020]

Paul notes no one should receive Communion unworthily. If your wife receives Communion in the Catholic Church without this belief, she is receiving under false pretenses which falls under unworthily. She is best served by receiving communion with those who do it in memory, as this is their shared belief.

not to mention that there is a "curse" (for lack of a better word) on those who receive unworthily. (1 Cor 11:23)

Unworthily can be defined in part by : one who does not believe as the True Church teaches but receives Holy Communion in same

 

[notmyfault2020]

Making our relationship with God a personal one defeats the whole idea that simple membership in a group does anything for your salvation. Saying, "I'm a Christian (be that Catholic or other denomination) because I attend services and know the songs", but there's no repentance in the heart, no fruit of the Spirit and no true relationship with God, does no good. We would not expect a happily married person to keep quiet about a spouse they love dearly, so we would also not expect someone in love with God to keep quiet about Him. Christians of all denominations should be able to freely pray and worship with each other.

I think you should have edited the first couple s entences before posting Reply because I have read it twice and do not really get what you are saying..

the part I get ,I agree with.

 

[Meriweather]

Big problem with that, G-d calls it idolatry. You should be praying to Christ alone. Mary is just a mere sinner like the rest of us, in need or a Redeemer like the rest of us. The Catholic church was responsible for much bloodshed over the centuries including the Third Reich and the Holocaust.

• Christ himself said, "When two or three are gathered in my name..."
• Mary was redeemed by God. One might consider her the first who was favored with grace and redemption before the birth of Christ.

 

[buttercup]

That Communion is not a shared meal and requires no preparation on the congregants' part. Many other denominations do that as well, but I think it removes something valuable from the experience. That people can be deified and literally become something more than other humans. That praying, "Help me, St Peter" is as effective as praying, "Help me Lord Jesus". That the Pope's writings are infallible. That infant baptism does anything for the child's soul. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is what I've understood.

Quick story. I can’t remember the reason why, but I went to a Catholic church some years ago for a family event. You know how in nondenominational churches you can take the communion where you’re sitting, and you don’t have to take it right away, because first the pastor speaks about what it means and then you have a bit of time to pray before you take the communion?

Well anyway, when I went to this Catholic mass, I made the “mistake” of not immediately eating the wafer when he put it in my hand but instead going back to my seat with it to pray first then eat it there.… And I kid you not, the priest stopped what he was doing, walked all the way over to where I was sitting, leaned over a bunch of people, pointed at me and said “you need to consume that right now.”

I was absolutely mortified. I was in complete disbelief that he embarrassed me in front of everyone to “teach me” the right way to do it, when I knew what I was doing, I just didn’t want to swallow it immediately like some robot…. I wanted to have time to reflect and pray silently a little bit first and then take it, instead of doing things in such a robotic, religious way.

NGL, I was upset and angry and I vowed to never set foot in a Catholic church again.

 

[GMCGeneral]

• Christ himself said, "When two or three are gathered in my name..."
• Mary was redeemed by God. One might consider her the first who was favored with grace and redemption before the birth of Christ.

But she isn't divine. Christ is, however.

 

[Meriweather]

Well anyway, when I went to this Catholic mass, I made the “mistake” of not immediately eating the wafer when he put it in my hand but instead going back to my seat with it to pray first then eat it there.… And I kid you not, the priest stopped what he was doing, walked all the way over to where I was sitting, leaned over a bunch of people, pointed at me and said “you need to consume that right now.”

When you go to a place you have not been before, do you observe their customs, or do you just do you spit in the face of their customs and do as you want?

First, Jesus know you meant no ill intent. He knows the same of the priest. Catholics believe on is receiving and consuming the Body and Blood of Christ. Therefore, the Eucharist is valued for Black Masses with demonic intent. We cannot allow Christ to fall into such hands, which is why the Catholic faithful always consumes immediately.

I am almost sure the priest meant his statement to you as a teaching moment with no intent to embarrass.

I am sorry you had a bad experience when everyone, yourself included, acted with the best intentions.

 

[Meriweather]

But she isn't divine. Christ is, however.

Are you saying we cannot pray and worship Christ with Mary? She has to be isolated from us all? What about my grandmothers who have passed on? Is it your belief I should never, under any circumstances, ask them to join me in prayer? Or, since they are not named Mary, do you believe they get a pass?