Do you believe in evolution?

The continued exploration of DNA both between species and within species continue to add credible evidence to the scientific theory of evolution.
 
Ok, I finally have a few minutes to post, and I forgot most to the stuff I had to say.

Ravi...even if natural selection perpetuation the helpful mutations...the mutations are still absolutely 100% random. The probability of the walnut tree stumbling randomly on it's toxin are astronomical. and those probabilities must are squared with the tiger moth, he got a poison and an ultrasonic warning. All pure chance?

Code...you're examples are variation within a species. I don't deny that there is variation within a species.
That's all I remember.


With that, then, we are in agreement in principle, but only parcing language. In my mind, evolution is only very slight changes in most cases and the random mutation here and there.

If I were to take a walk from New York to LA, I would do so by taking one, first step. With that step, I would still be in New York and the difference in my position, in terms of the entire walk, would not be very different. I would be about 2 feet or so farther from my start point and 2 feet or so closer to my end point.

The total distance of my walk would be about 13 million feet.

Let's compare this to variation within species. To do this, we need to assume that there are millions of people who are going to walk from the East Coast to the West Coast. All of us are blindfolded and none of are aware of where we are headed, only that we must keep walking. Each walker represents a species.

On the trip we may assume that almost all of the walkers are going to drown in the Mississippi, starve on the Great Plains, die of thirst in the deserts, fall off a mountain in the Rockies, Freeze in Montana or get run over on the PCH. I am one of the lucky ones (it's my story) and I survive the whole walk and end up in LA. I didn't know I was going there, I just ended up there.

If you're still reading this, my apologies.

Now, if each step was a succeeding generation in the descent of the species, each step was a very slight change in the relative position. After about 6.5 million steps, I had moved from New York to LA.

How long is 6.5 million generations? Let's call a generation 25 years. Fair? That is 1 billion, 625 million years. If a generation is 20 years, it's closer to 1.3 billion years. Use whatever number you like, there's a whole lot of begatting and a whole lot of generations to make this fly.

Since the dark ages, the height of the best fed people on the planet has increased by about a foot. That's only about 36 generations. The "slight changes within a species" will eventually "slightly change" that species into something that is not recognizable by the original copy.

If I was God and wanted to make a Man in my image, I would try to design some staying power into that Man and give him the ability to adapt. Wouldn't you?
 
Somebody or something was....you don't have to call it God! :D But we did end up in this Galaxy, with this sun and with this moon, and this water, then this firmament with carbon, on earth so that life, could exist...I'd say the odds are something like one in a trillion trillion....chances....so without knowing all the information, I'd say "something" could have influenced it....this can not be ruled out...at least not yet!

Care

I don't like the "one in a trillion" chance excuse, though I don't belittle your belief, but the reasoning is this:

It's one in a trillion per solar system, there are more than a quadrillion solar systems in every galaxy, and as far as we know there are an infinite number of galaxies, so chances are (scientifically) there is life on many more planets in our own galaxy, not to mention in the whole universe even with those slim odds. Also, the one in a trillion odds are based on very old understanding of life. In reality it's more like one in a hundred per solar system and one in a billion per planet. We have learned there are many planets once thought of as uninhabitable to actually have very primitive life forms on them. Also note that the chances are for complex life forms, not just the presence of life.

i have no doubt there could be some form of life that existed somewhere else at some time, i am not even certain if we didn't for that matter.

i said one in a trillion trillion chance, not one in a trillion! :D

the fact still remains, that the Bible states the earth was in darkness....science says the earth was once in darkness...

the bible then says the earth was given a sun and a moon, and science says the earth was kicked in to this galaxy with the sun and moon...it explained it more as an asteroid or another nearing planet's pressence that pulled or pushed us in to it.


That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.


the bible is not a science book and should not be thought of one imo, but there is more truth in it regarding the science of today than many give credit to....again, in my opinion.

care
That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.
 
I don't like the "one in a trillion" chance excuse, though I don't belittle your belief, but the reasoning is this:

It's one in a trillion per solar system, there are more than a quadrillion solar systems in every galaxy, and as far as we know there are an infinite number of galaxies, so chances are (scientifically) there is life on many more planets in our own galaxy, not to mention in the whole universe even with those slim odds. Also, the one in a trillion odds are based on very old understanding of life. In reality it's more like one in a hundred per solar system and one in a billion per planet. We have learned there are many planets once thought of as uninhabitable to actually have very primitive life forms on them. Also note that the chances are for complex life forms, not just the presence of life.

i have no doubt there could be some form of life that existed somewhere else at some time, i am not even certain if we didn't for that matter.

i said one in a trillion trillion chance, not one in a trillion! :D

the fact still remains, that the Bible states the earth was in darkness....science says the earth was once in darkness...

the bible then says the earth was given a sun and a moon, and science says the earth was kicked in to this galaxy with the sun and moon...it explained it more as an asteroid or another nearing planet's pressence that pulled or pushed us in to it.


That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.


the bible is not a science book and should not be thought of one imo, but there is more truth in it regarding the science of today than many give credit to....again, in my opinion.

care
That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.

Maybe i didn't say it right....the earth has always been in this galaxy, but we have not always had the sun and moon in the manner we have now, with 24 hour days....and all the planets including the sun in our galaxy are the SAME AGE, one was not formed after another btw....we just were not all in the same positions we are in right now....as example Uranus is tilted on it's side now because of a planet size object hitting it....due to this, Uranus has 20 year long seasons, not 3 months as we do....

Yes, the moon was formed after a huge mass, another planet size object hit us...doesn't conflict with the Bible what so ever...
 
i have no doubt there could be some form of life that existed somewhere else at some time, i am not even certain if we didn't for that matter.

i said one in a trillion trillion chance, not one in a trillion! :D

the fact still remains, that the Bible states the earth was in darkness....science says the earth was once in darkness...

the bible then says the earth was given a sun and a moon, and science says the earth was kicked in to this galaxy with the sun and moon...it explained it more as an asteroid or another nearing planet's pressence that pulled or pushed us in to it.


That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.


the bible is not a science book and should not be thought of one imo, but there is more truth in it regarding the science of today than many give credit to....again, in my opinion.

care
That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.

Maybe i didn't say it right....the earth has always been in this galaxy, but we have not always had the sun and moon in the manner we have now, with 24 hour days....and all the planets including the sun in our galaxy are the SAME AGE, one was not formed after another btw....we just were not all in the same positions we are in right now....as example Uranus is tilted on it's side now because of a planet size object hitting it....due to this, Uranus has 20 year long seasons, not 3 months as we do....

Yes, the moon was formed after a huge mass, another planet size object hit us...doesn't conflict with the Bible what so ever...

One point you made is wrong here, they are not all the same age, only the matter which makes up everything is. The form of that matter has gone through many shifts before it became the planets and stars we see now.
 
That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.

Maybe i didn't say it right....the earth has always been in this galaxy, but we have not always had the sun and moon in the manner we have now, with 24 hour days....and all the planets including the sun in our galaxy are the SAME AGE, one was not formed after another btw....we just were not all in the same positions we are in right now....as example Uranus is tilted on it's side now because of a planet size object hitting it....due to this, Uranus has 20 year long seasons, not 3 months as we do....

Yes, the moon was formed after a huge mass, another planet size object hit us...doesn't conflict with the Bible what so ever...

One point you made is wrong here, they are not all the same age, only the matter which makes up everything is. The form of that matter has gone through many shifts before it became the planets and stars we see now.

Facts, Images, Videos and Pics - Stars, Moons, Planets, Galaxy - The Universe - History.com
 
Maybe i didn't say it right....the earth has always been in this galaxy, but we have not always had the sun and moon in the manner we have now, with 24 hour days....and all the planets including the sun in our galaxy are the SAME AGE, one was not formed after another btw....we just were not all in the same positions we are in right now....as example Uranus is tilted on it's side now because of a planet size object hitting it....due to this, Uranus has 20 year long seasons, not 3 months as we do....

Yes, the moon was formed after a huge mass, another planet size object hit us...doesn't conflict with the Bible what so ever...

One point you made is wrong here, they are not all the same age, only the matter which makes up everything is. The form of that matter has gone through many shifts before it became the planets and stars we see now.

Facts, Images, Videos and Pics - Stars, Moons, Planets, Galaxy - The Universe - History.com

Running flash right now is not something I can do (graphics rendering and all). However I am assuming that it's actually facts that support one of the many theories of how the planets and stars came to where they are. The problem, and why it's all still theory, is that the facts conflict with other theories which have just as many facts to support them. Also there are varying theories within these, one example is the "big bang" theory which has three versions which I know of. Currently there is no way to know for certain about how it all began.
 
One point you made is wrong here, they are not all the same age, only the matter which makes up everything is. The form of that matter has gone through many shifts before it became the planets and stars we see now.

Facts, Images, Videos and Pics - Stars, Moons, Planets, Galaxy - The Universe - History.com

Running flash right now is not something I can do (graphics rendering and all). However I am assuming that it's actually facts that support one of the many theories of how the planets and stars came to where they are. The problem, and why it's all still theory, is that the facts conflict with other theories which have just as many facts to support them. Also there are varying theories within these, one example is the "big bang" theory which has three versions which I know of. Currently there is no way to know for certain about how it all began.
no, it doesn't necessarily disagree with what you were saying...it does say that all planets are the same age, 4.5 billion years old, but as you said, the matter or gasses within them may be all the same age, big bang...all at once, but it does not dispute that the planets all evolved from the point of the big bang....shoot, we are still evolving through the expansion of the universe that some claim is happening...and if any of our galaxy's planets get hit by another big planet like object, everything can change again...like uranus spinning on a side axle...and us getting a moon from a planetary type hit etc....
Care
 
I was speaking of the theory of human evolution. A person can parse words about it day in and day out, but at the end of the day it still remains a theory. It hasn't been proven. Otherwise people would post that proof instead of some long line of rhetoric. When and if it's ever proven, I'll more than willingly accept it. I'll even be amazed, because I don't believe it.

It's not parsing words at all, it's about words with two completely different definitions.

Evolution, like gravity is a Scientific Theory - not a "theory".

Scientific Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.
 
I don't like the "one in a trillion" chance excuse, though I don't belittle your belief, but the reasoning is this:

It's one in a trillion per solar system, there are more than a quadrillion solar systems in every galaxy, and as far as we know there are an infinite number of galaxies, so chances are (scientifically) there is life on many more planets in our own galaxy, not to mention in the whole universe even with those slim odds. Also, the one in a trillion odds are based on very old understanding of life. In reality it's more like one in a hundred per solar system and one in a billion per planet. We have learned there are many planets once thought of as uninhabitable to actually have very primitive life forms on them. Also note that the chances are for complex life forms, not just the presence of life.

i have no doubt there could be some form of life that existed somewhere else at some time, i am not even certain if we didn't for that matter.

i said one in a trillion trillion chance, not one in a trillion! :D

the fact still remains, that the Bible states the earth was in darkness....science says the earth was once in darkness...

the bible then says the earth was given a sun and a moon, and science says the earth was kicked in to this galaxy with the sun and moon...it explained it more as an asteroid or another nearing planet's pressence that pulled or pushed us in to it.


That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.


the bible is not a science book and should not be thought of one imo, but there is more truth in it regarding the science of today than many give credit to....again, in my opinion.

care
That's incorrect. Earth was formed during the latter stages of our sun's formation, within this solar system. Earth has always orbited the sun; Earth did not originate elsewhere. There has never been "darkness"; at least not in the sense you meant.

As for the moon; it's the result of a failed planet (a planetesimal) colliding with Earth during planet/star formation. The collision created a shockwave so massive that molten chunks of Earth on the opposite side of the collision (other side of Earth) broke away and actually escaped the atmosphere, but not Earth's gravitational pull. So much mass escaped, in fact, that the resultant satellite (the moon) was able to form into a sphere.


I not an authority on the Bible, but doesn't it say that in the beginning there was chaos? After the, let there be light and after that everything else?
 
Gee... that's quite a revelation. Have you announced that to the scientific community yet, so they can no longer call it a theory?

There's the part many people do not realize, evolution itself is fact, and evolutionary science is not only proven but an extremely useful science. There is one part that is theory, the evolutionary paths of some species (most we know to be fact), one of which is humanity. When talking about the "theory of evolution" they are talking about the evolution of humans specifically. Calling it the "theory of evolution" was originally used as a shorthand, but people latched onto it and it became a catch phrase. In reality when a scientist says that they mean "theory of the evolution of humanity."

But the original meaning is one of those things which are lost do to a lack of use and understanding.

I was speaking of the theory of human evolution. A person can parse words about it day in and day out, but at the end of the day it still remains a theory. It hasn't been proven. Otherwise people would post that proof instead of some long line of rhetoric. When and if it's ever proven, I'll more than willingly accept it. I'll even be amazed, because I don't believe it.

It is a fact that organisms evolve. HOW that happens is what the evolution theory addresses.
 
All I can say on the matter is that I think most of those who don't believe in evolution are just pissed that it hasn't happened to them yet.
 
Hi DavidS with others mentioned once:

Hey. We agree on something!

applause.gif


Againsheila (05-07-2009), auditor0007 (05-07-2009), elvis3577 (05-07-2009), Immanuel (05-07-2009), tigerbob (05-07-2009)
All of these people send applause for three sentences supported by nothing. However you did underline one word and maybe I am missing something. :0)

I believe in both evolution and creation.

The Bible says God created man from the ground ... evolution says we evolved from some single celled organisms from a primordial soup of some kind.

Why couldn't God have created evolution?
And so many find this OP useful for what reason I have no clue. Yes. Scripture and Science teach evolution and creation in that ‘God’ created all life from the waters (Gen. 1:20) beginning billions of years ago (like Science says); until man (male and female) became part of the creation in Genesis 1:26-28. These are the Aborigine and Native Indian Peoples and even ‘princes of the east’ who have been around for hundreds of thousands and even millions of years (story + Wiki).

A study of “The Comparative Psychology of Man” (link) reveals commentary on the differences between the ‘bearded’ and ‘beardless’ races, which are the differences between the sixth (beardless) and seventh (bearded) day peoples now on this earth. The evidence of the sixth day people from Genesis 1 are found in fossil remains everywhere (China, Africa, Australia), but NONE of those remains are from the descendants of Adam and Eve’s most recent incarnation that began in Genesis 3:21 on this earth on this 'seventh day.'

While Prehistoric Man (sixth day races) have been around for millions of years, ‘and’ have been evolving over the same periods, they represent the members of Adam’s body connected directly to this Adamic Universe. The sons of Noah (Shem, Japheth and Ham) represent the remnant remains of ‘gods’ (Ps. 82:6, John 10:34) incarnate in this universe from God’s Infinite Realm (far left and very top) representing Infinite God Beings who were created by God Himself (to be like Him), just like He created Adam LONG before this universe was ever called to exist. In short: The Euro-Invaders who came to the New World are ‘gods’ (seventh day bearded races) incarnate here from God’s Infinite Realm ‘and’ the beardless natives are the members of Adam’s body (the Eve/Visible half = in blue at bottom) who have been here for millions of years.

The primitive/naked peoples in the jungles (pic) have been evolving over the millennia, but the bearded races have not been on this earth long enough to even begin the evolutionary process on the same kind of scale. In fact, the Lord God (Christ) gave His ‘two witnesses’ (Adam/David/Elijah + Eve/Noah/Moses) the benefit of millions of years of evolution in the day He fashioned their human ‘skins’ (Genesis 3:21).

81.jpg


Starting from the left: Adam was first ‘formed’ by the Lord God (Christ) in the Singularity Expression form of “The Earth” (in blue), before the heavens and earth (now triune) were created in the aftermath of the ‘Big Bang’ that took place in Genesis 1:2 (explained here). Adam lived a ‘heavenly’ existence from Genesis 2:7 to Genesis 2:18-22, when the Lord God removed Eve from his side. The heavenly pair continued to live a heavenly existence with the “Lamb of God” (diagram = middle of Adamic Universe in heaven), until the “Fall” takes place in Genesis 3 and both were given human skins to begin an ‘earthly’ existence. Only then was procreation a possibility, so that Cain and Abel come along with the start of Genesis 4.

Elijah (2Kings 1:8) and John the Baptist (Mark 1:6) are human ‘skins’ for your father Adam, just like Abraham, Joshua, David and the coming “prophet” of Acts 3:22-23. Noah and Moses are ‘skins’ for your mother Eve, just like Sarah (for Abraham) and Bathsheba (for David). These ‘two witnesses’ are the Lord God’s two olive trees (in human form) and lampstands (in angel form) described in Zechariah 4:11-14 and Revelation 11, as these are the ONLY seventh day people to incarnate again and again within any ‘age’ (exceptions to Hebrews 9:27 = Matt. 11:13-14). Those among you with beards (and your wives) are ‘god’s from God’s Infinite Realm ‘and’ things are NOT nearly as they appear. A vast majority of these seventh day people were DUPED by Satan in God’s Infinite Realm where the original Satanic Rebellion actually took place, again, LONG before this Adamic Universe was called into being.

The key for understanding is that gods in God’s Infinite Realm all ‘incarnate’ inside of one another, which is the way we come to ‘know’ one another (i.e., Adam ‘knew’ Eve and begat . . .). A reading of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans will reveal and interesting fact:

“For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of anotherRomans 12:4-5.
The believers in our gospel (#2 = Church #2) are members of one another, because we have all been ‘baptized into Christ’ (Gal. 3:27) in the same way that the ‘gods’ in God’s Infinite Realm all ‘incarnate’ inside one another. The short of a very long story is that Satan murdered Adam ‘and’ all of the ‘gods’ incarnate IN Adam were killed at the very same time! There is only “one” son of God (Luke 3:38 = greatest born of women = John = Adam) in this Adamic Universe and his name is ‘Adam.’ All the other ‘gods’ incarnate in this universe ‘died in Adam’ (1Cor. 15:22) in the day that the Lord God took Eve from his ‘singularity expression’ body; in the SAME WAY that all the native Indian peoples also ‘died’ IN Adam, when this universe became formless and void in Genesis 1:2.

Most of the professing Christian world is waiting for Jesus Christ to return on the clouds, but the Son of Man will return at the “END of the Age” (Matt. 24:3+30-31) in more than 1000 years (far right). The “prophet” of Acts 3:22-23 is NOT our Lord Jesus Christ at all, but he is another ‘skin’ for your father Adam; who is Abraham, Joshua, David, Elijah and John the Baptist ‘and’ Eve, Noah, Sarah, Moses, and Bathsheba . . . all rolled into one. :0)

Jesus Christ is the “Man of Heaven” and Adam/David/Elijah is the “Man of the Earth” (my thread).

GL,

Terral
 
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I believe in evolution with IN a species, it is pretty much a proven fact that happens ( try the horse for evidence) . However there is NO evidence that one species of NON plant life, or virus, or single cell life has ever evolved into 2 or more other species.

And Yes even if they prove man evolved from an ape like creature that JUST MEANS that is how God made man evolve. I keep asking who it was that Cain lived with once cast out for the murder of his brother, and who it was his siblings all married.

Religious people will not be effected by actual evidence that evolution occurs in the manner that science claims. Of course for now it is unimportant since it is totally unproven.

RGS, there has been a little improvement in science called Genetics. We have read the genetic code of many species. And the reading of that code has given total support to the Theory of Evolution.

If by "Theory of Evolution" you mean dogs becoming whales or is it the other way around, I'd have to disagree with you. I see no convincing evidence. On the other hand only a fool would state that a species doesn't evolve.

As for reading the code, I've heard it claimed we came from apes. I have also heard that our closest genetic relative is the pig. My mom used to call me a pig whenever she opened my bedroom door, but I don't think she meant it in quite those terms. :)

Immie

Ha ha!

What have you read regarding the subject of evolution, Immanuel? I think that were you to update your knowledge on the subject that you would find the evidence of inter-species evolution compelling, and that it isn't a theory but a very solid, scientific, observable fact that has been reproduced in studies. I won't try to convince you of that, but only convince you to read up on the subject. It is integral to all branches of modern science dealing with biology including medicine.
 
You won't try to convince us of it because it's a lie.

But just for laughs, please post some evidence of "inter-species" evolution.
 

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