Ray Tracing

[YWN666]

Kitten Koder was talking about Ray Tracing in another thread and I've always been fascinated with it. Here are a few images I found that are very realistic:

 

[KittenKoder]

It's a beautiful art form, but then I can also see the mathematics involved which is beauty to me. Traving the path of each beam of light ... bouncing it off virtual spaces ... filtering through translucent objects ...

Am I weird?

 

[editec]

It's a beautiful art form, but then I can also see the mathematics involved which is beauty to me. Traving the path of each beam of light ... bouncing it off virtual spaces ... filtering through translucent objects ...

Am I weird?

Weird?

Finding beauty in things beautify?

Seems eminently human to me.

 

[KittenKoder]

Oooh, I am human after all!

Math to me is beauty, all forms of it, raytracing is one of those you actually get to see more than the numbers, fractals to (chaos theory).

 

[Immanuel]

It's a beautiful art form, but then I can also see the mathematics involved which is beauty to me. Traving the path of each beam of light ... bouncing it off virtual spaces ... filtering through translucent objects ...

Am I weird?

The big picture with the "globes" just takes too long to load, so I have not seen it in full yet, but the others are cool.

I'm not an artist and I would say that is an art form. I'm still not sure what the point of tracing rays is though. I'll make a mental note to go and look up more information on this as there is no reason for you to try and explain it here.

But weird? No, I wouldn't say that you are weird because of this hobby. Weird, yes, but not because of the hobby.

Oh and thanks to YWN666 for giving me a visual point of reference as to the outcome of raytracing.

Immie

PS the globes finally loaded. Nice picture.

 

[KittenKoder]

It's a beautiful art form, but then I can also see the mathematics involved which is beauty to me. Traving the path of each beam of light ... bouncing it off virtual spaces ... filtering through translucent objects ...

Am I weird?

The big picture with the "globes" just takes too long to load, so I have not seen it in full yet, but the others are cool.

I'm not an artist and I would say that is an art form. I'm still not sure what the point of tracing rays is though. I'll make a mental note to go and look up more information on this as there is no reason for you to try and explain it here.

But weird? No, I wouldn't say that you are weird because of this hobby. Weird, yes, but not because of the hobby.

Oh and thanks to YWN666 for giving me a visual point of reference as to the outcome of raytracing.

Immie

PS the globes finally loaded. Nice picture.

The movie industry. All those computer generated movies and effects use raytracing.

 

[Immanuel]

The movie industry. All those computer generated movies and effects use raytracing.

My "problem" with this is not what it is used for so much as why?

As I said, I'm not an artist. When dealing with colors, you grab a crayon (or on the computer you click on the "color" button) and voila! you have the color you want. Why go through all that work just to find the color you want? It's right there in your box of 64 crayons!

Now getting serious... This seems interesting to me. Until you had mentioned it, I had never heard of it before. I will have to look into it some more, because, I don't understand the need for it so to speak.

Anyone else interested in this, I just searched and found this article:

Ray Tracing: Graphics for the Masses

Immie

 

[KittenKoder]

No, the better question is "why not?"

It's an art medium, and like all artistic mediums, why not use it? People like what they can do with it, and many like how it looks. Look at a lot of the recent movies done with the medium, like "Delgo" and "The Matrix", all impossible without computer generated graphics, raytracing more specifically.

It'd be like asking why bother using clay, or why bother with airbrushing. Instead of a potters wheel we use the computer, instead of brushes we have a mouse, it's art, it's creativity, and it's fun when you get into it. Almost addictive once you get the hang of it.

 

[Immanuel]

I read that link I provided up until it got to the math part. Okay, I am going to be 48 in a week... shhh! don't tell anyone... and I hated Geometry. It was the one math class that I absolutely despised. I had to stop reading there.

As for KK's post about "why not?", I understand that. It is like solving a puzzle and who isn't intrigued by trying to solve a puzzle?

I'm still confused about how it works and all that. I can see by YWN666's post and the link I posted the output of Raytracing, but (again, I am not graphically inclined so this will sound dumb) but where does the input come from? A digital picture? When Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa he started with a woman in front of him and he painted her picture. She was the input. Do you take a digital picture of say a Carnival Cruise Ship (yes, I'm thinking of cruising right now) and trace the rays through that picture or do you create the picture from your "mind's eye"?

I'm sorry, all of these questions sound stupid, but I'm curious about the process.

Immie

 

[YWN666]

It's a beautiful art form, but then I can also see the mathematics involved which is beauty to me. Traving the path of each beam of light ... bouncing it off virtual spaces ... filtering through translucent objects ...

Am I weird?

Nope. I am forever fascinated by how well computers can simulate the real world.

 

[YWN666]

I read that link I provided up until it got to the math part. Okay, I am going to be 48 in a week... shhh! don't tell anyone... and I hated Geometry. It was the one math class that I absolutely despised. I had to stop reading there.

As for KK's post about "why not?", I understand that. It is like solving a puzzle and who isn't intrigued by trying to solve a puzzle?

I'm still confused about how it works and all that. I can see by YWN666's post and the link I posted the output of Raytracing, but (again, I am not graphically inclined so this will sound dumb) but where does the input come from? A digital picture? When Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa he started with a woman in front of her and he painted her picture. She was the input. Do you take a digital picture of say a Carnival Cruise Ship (yes, I'm thinking of cruising right now) and trace the rays through that picture or do you create the picture from your "mind's eye"?

I'm sorry, all of these questions sound stupid, but I'm curious about the process.

Immie

From what I understand, you create objects and designate the qualities of the objects and the light sources and then let the computer do its thing and calculate how the light waves travel based on your settings.

 

[Immanuel]

I read that link I provided up until it got to the math part. Okay, I am going to be 48 in a week... shhh! don't tell anyone... and I hated Geometry. It was the one math class that I absolutely despised. I had to stop reading there.

As for KK's post about "why not?", I understand that. It is like solving a puzzle and who isn't intrigued by trying to solve a puzzle?

I'm still confused about how it works and all that. I can see by YWN666's post and the link I posted the output of Raytracing, but (again, I am not graphically inclined so this will sound dumb) but where does the input come from? A digital picture? When Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa he started with a woman in front of her and he painted her picture. She was the input. Do you take a digital picture of say a Carnival Cruise Ship (yes, I'm thinking of cruising right now) and trace the rays through that picture or do you create the picture from your "mind's eye"?

I'm sorry, all of these questions sound stupid, but I'm curious about the process.

Immie

From what I understand, you create objects and designate the qualities of the objects and the light sources and then let the computer do its thing and calculate how the light waves travel based on your settings.

So, if I wanted to create a picture of a Carnival Cruise Ship, I would enter the parameters into the computer in whatever form it required and let it do its thing? I realize that is drastically over simplifying the procedure, but from a layman's point of view, that is what I am understanding.

Immie

 

[YWN666]

I read that link I provided up until it got to the math part. Okay, I am going to be 48 in a week... shhh! don't tell anyone... and I hated Geometry. It was the one math class that I absolutely despised. I had to stop reading there.

As for KK's post about "why not?", I understand that. It is like solving a puzzle and who isn't intrigued by trying to solve a puzzle?

I'm still confused about how it works and all that. I can see by YWN666's post and the link I posted the output of Raytracing, but (again, I am not graphically inclined so this will sound dumb) but where does the input come from? A digital picture? When Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa he started with a woman in front of her and he painted her picture. She was the input. Do you take a digital picture of say a Carnival Cruise Ship (yes, I'm thinking of cruising right now) and trace the rays through that picture or do you create the picture from your "mind's eye"?

I'm sorry, all of these questions sound stupid, but I'm curious about the process.

Immie

From what I understand, you create objects and designate the qualities of the objects and the light sources and then let the computer do its thing and calculate how the light waves travel based on your settings.

So, if I wanted to create a picture of a Carnival Cruise Ship, I would enter the parameters into the computer in whatever form it required and let it do its thing? I realize that is drastically over simplifying the procedure, but from a layman's point of view, that is what I am understanding.

Immie

Yes, that is the way I understand it. The ray tracing programs I have seen (and this was years ago - things may have changed) have a 3D grid where you create wireframe versions of the objects (if you've ever seen how the CGI animators do it, it is basically the same thing) and you specify the qualities (i.e whether the object is shiny, dull, translucent, whether it has a texture) and then when the computer takes these qualities into account when calculating how the light rays travel. Kitten will be able to confirm whether this is still the way they do it.

 

[Immanuel]

Here is another interesting link:

Ray tracing: Definition from Answers.com

Looking at the bottom of the page, I can see the difference between shading, alpha blending (something else I had never heard of), and raytracing. I must admit... even I can see the difference.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Question for KK,

You stated that it was resource intensive for your system. If I could afford the software required, would I also need a new computer just to experiment with this. Without going into details, I have a standard gamers system. Does the system work on an everyday PC or do you have a super computer in your possession?

Immie

 

[KittenKoder]

I read that link I provided up until it got to the math part. Okay, I am going to be 48 in a week... shhh! don't tell anyone... and I hated Geometry. It was the one math class that I absolutely despised. I had to stop reading there.

As for KK's post about "why not?", I understand that. It is like solving a puzzle and who isn't intrigued by trying to solve a puzzle?

I'm still confused about how it works and all that. I can see by YWN666's post and the link I posted the output of Raytracing, but (again, I am not graphically inclined so this will sound dumb) but where does the input come from? A digital picture? When Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa he started with a woman in front of him and he painted her picture. She was the input. Do you take a digital picture of say a Carnival Cruise Ship (yes, I'm thinking of cruising right now) and trace the rays through that picture or do you create the picture from your "mind's eye"?

I'm sorry, all of these questions sound stupid, but I'm curious about the process.

Immie

Actually, most people don't think about the math. blender.org - Home Programs like this do all that for them, all they do is "paint" the objects in 3D space, a lot like sculpting with the mouse. Takes practice. I am just a lover of mathematics, even when I read text I can't help but think about the numbers flying through the computer as well. That's what got me hooked on 3D modeling so suddenly, I started seeing the formulas in action.

 

[KittenKoder]

Question for KK,

You stated that it was resource intensive for your system. If I could afford the software required, would I also need a new computer just to experiment with this. Without going into details, I have a standard gamers system. Does the system work on an everyday PC or do you have a super computer in your possession?

Immie

The the term "resource hog" doesn't mean it needs a LOT of RAM or CPU power, it just means it uses everything it can while it's running, which can slow other programs since they have to wait for their resource requests a bit longer. Blender will work on a "standard" system just as well, it will just be a bit slower. Another good one to look at is OpenFX (don't remember the link), both are 100% free and open source, though Blender is a bit more complete it's also a bit more complex, uses a lot of keyboard actions with the mouse actions, it is smaller and easier to install. But if you are going to play with it, I recommend looking into OpenFX, not the best quality but it works for learning about it. If you do find you enjoy it, switch to Blender once you get the hang of the 3D "sculpting" and "painting" techniques.

 

[Immanuel]

I read that link I provided up until it got to the math part. Okay, I am going to be 48 in a week... shhh! don't tell anyone... and I hated Geometry. It was the one math class that I absolutely despised. I had to stop reading there.

As for KK's post about "why not?", I understand that. It is like solving a puzzle and who isn't intrigued by trying to solve a puzzle?

I'm still confused about how it works and all that. I can see by YWN666's post and the link I posted the output of Raytracing, but (again, I am not graphically inclined so this will sound dumb) but where does the input come from? A digital picture? When Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa he started with a woman in front of him and he painted her picture. She was the input. Do you take a digital picture of say a Carnival Cruise Ship (yes, I'm thinking of cruising right now) and trace the rays through that picture or do you create the picture from your "mind's eye"?

I'm sorry, all of these questions sound stupid, but I'm curious about the process.

Immie

Actually, most people don't think about the math. blender.org - Home Programs like this do all that for them, all they do is "paint" the objects in 3D space, a lot like sculpting with the mouse. Takes practice. I am just a lover of mathematics, even when I read text I can't help but think about the numbers flying through the computer as well. That's what got me hooked on 3D modeling so suddenly, I started seeing the formulas in action.

Ah thank you, now I have a better idea of how the process begins. I'm not familiar with CAD (computer aided design? if the term is correct) but I do at least have an idea of what it does, but the process comes from you painting the picture on the computer, this leaves me out because as I said, I'm no artist! , but now at least I can see where this all starts.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Thank you both for the information.

I'll look into this a little bit.

Anyone else interested in this topic, here's a link to OpenFX:

OpenFX downloads

I have not yet downloaded it, but I may play later.

Immie

 

[KittenKoder]

I read that link I provided up until it got to the math part. Okay, I am going to be 48 in a week... shhh! don't tell anyone... and I hated Geometry. It was the one math class that I absolutely despised. I had to stop reading there.

As for KK's post about "why not?", I understand that. It is like solving a puzzle and who isn't intrigued by trying to solve a puzzle?

I'm still confused about how it works and all that. I can see by YWN666's post and the link I posted the output of Raytracing, but (again, I am not graphically inclined so this will sound dumb) but where does the input come from? A digital picture? When Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa he started with a woman in front of him and he painted her picture. She was the input. Do you take a digital picture of say a Carnival Cruise Ship (yes, I'm thinking of cruising right now) and trace the rays through that picture or do you create the picture from your "mind's eye"?

I'm sorry, all of these questions sound stupid, but I'm curious about the process.

Immie

Actually, most people don't think about the math. blender.org - Home Programs like this do all that for them, all they do is "paint" the objects in 3D space, a lot like sculpting with the mouse. Takes practice. I am just a lover of mathematics, even when I read text I can't help but think about the numbers flying through the computer as well. That's what got me hooked on 3D modeling so suddenly, I started seeing the formulas in action.

Ah thank you, now I have a better idea of how the process begins. I'm not familiar with CAD (computer aided design? if the term is correct) but I do at least have an idea of what it does, but the process comes from you painting the picture on the computer, this leaves me out because as I said, I'm no artist! , but now at least I can see where this all starts.

Immie

CAD is far more technical than these type of programs, though it is the skeleton used for developing them. I remember when CAD was pretty much the top of the line for 3D work on a computer, the images were primitive compared to these. Thanks to programs like Blender though almost anyone with some creativity can start working on 3D, well creativity and patience. It actually is a challenge to get use to it.