Discipline

[SweetSue92]

Some children simply should not be in school for the safety of other children and teachers.

In my job I have been hit, bitten, shoved into furniture and had things thrown at me.

When this happens, I am told that I need to help the child dysregulate, etc.

It's a joke. People are leaving because of this.

 

[SweetSue92]

Whether it was yesterday, or 100 years ago, we were disciplined and got an education. Now our children can't read or write. They are idiots...

Unkatore is riding a train that is barely running anymore: soft of discipline, Social Emotional Learning, Trauma informed blah blah blah.

PARENTS have woken up to this and now realize that this nonsense means their own kids are not being educated AND that they are even put in jeopardy. "Gentle Parenting" is now a running joke, and thank God for that

 

[Natural Citizen]

I am on campus every day of the week.. even during summer school... and I also talk with teachers.... idiot....

I've been there and done that. For years. So I can definitely relate.

Coaching in the youth and Summer/Fall/Travel leagues, you get to know kids and families very well. From the time they're like six or seven, all the way up until high school.

You know them much, much better than teachers ever will.

There's a reason why people like us get more genuine respect from them than today's teaching staff...

 

[SweetSue92]

I've been there and done that. For years. So I can definitely relate.

Coaching in the youth and Summer/Fall leagues, you get to know kids and families very well. From the time they're like six or seven, all the way up until high school.

You know them much, much better than teachers ever will.

There's a reason why people like us get more genuine respect from them than today's teaching staff...

This is a terrible take. Terrible.

When you're coaching, you're mostly dealing with kids who WANT to be there, and whose parents are absolutely invested in getting them there.

Not so with teaching. Not even close.

Are you for real with this?

 

[Natural Citizen]

This is a terrible take. Terrible.

When you're coaching, you're mostly dealing with kids who WANT to be there, and whose parents are absolutely invested in getting them there.

A lot of kids actually don't. A lot of em are kind of forced into reliving or playing out dad's failed dreams. Trying to be somebody they're not in order to please someone else.

If you knew how many times I've had to have an umpire throw a parent out of a game because they were screaming at their kid like he's some kind of asshole in front of all of his friends from the bleachers because dad didn't feel that junior was living up to dad's own failed hopes and dreams, you wouldn't say that.

You can't do that in your environment. It's a damned administrative bureaucracy. And you only see them at fragmented stages of their lives anyway.

The kid would end up in some social workers office with a cop sitting in the corner and probably medicated, making matters worse.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why?... I'm making you and Unkotare look stupid...

No. You are doing that for yourself. Mission accomplished.

 

[martybegan]

I came across this article on one of the educators feeds I constantly get in my inbox. Bear in mind these are NOT my words or my opinion, though I do agree with some of it to some degree. The author is obviously a drama queen feeling self-righteous. It may come across as "touchy feely" to those with no experience in a highly challenging urban school environment. Again, not my words.



"I’m fed up. Honestly, I’ve had it with the old-school crowd on X preaching the same tired nonsense about “removing disruptive kids” and keeping the “good kids” away from them.

Just this week, I read posts that made me want to throw my coffee across the room:





and






and






This is old-school education thinking at its worst—segregating kids, labeling them as “bad,” and pretending academics can thrive in a vacuum without addressing emotional needs. And I’m done being polite about it.

---

​

Old-School Discipline Hurts Everyone​

Isolating students doesn’t just fail the so-called “disruptive” kids—it fails every child in the classroom.

Here’s why:

1. It destroys belonging.
   When we remove students, we tell them they don’t belong. And when kids don’t feel like they belong, they stop caring. Period. They stop caring about school, about relationships, about themselves. I’ve seen this play out hundreds of times—kids labeled as “behavior problems” eventually wear that label like a badge. And once that happens, good luck getting them to re-engage.
2. It fuels resentment in the entire classroom.
   Students notice when peers are kicked out or consistently separated. It creates an “us vs. them” mentality. The so-called “good kids” begin to believe that anyone who struggles is a problem to get rid of, not a person to understand. That’s not education—that’s social conditioning to dehumanize people who are different.
3. It teaches nothing about empathy or responsibility.
   The whole point of being in a classroom community is to learn how to live in a community. You don’t learn empathy by sitting only with kids who never push your buttons. You don’t learn responsibility by having “the troublemakers” removed. You learn those things by navigating relationships with people who are different from you—who frustrate you, challenge you, and make you grow.
4. It puts academics over humanity.
   I keep seeing these old-school posts saying, “We need to focus on academics.” Let me ask you this: what kid learns well when they feel like they don’t belong? Show me the research that proves anxiety, isolation, and shame are the keys to higher test scores. Spoiler: it doesn’t exist.
5. It creates adults who quit when things get tough.
   If we teach kids that you just “remove” difficult people from your life, we’re setting them up for failure in the real world. Life doesn’t work that way. In jobs, relationships, and communities, you can’t just exile people who annoy you. Schools are supposed to prepare kids for life, not teach them to avoid it.

---

​

I Used to Be One of Those Teachers​

I get it—I really do. I used to be one of those teachers who thought removing “problem kids” was the answer. Early in my career, I believed that getting rid of disruptions would make my class run smoothly.

And yes, for a day or two, it was quiet. But you know what happened next? Those same kids came back angrier, more frustrated, and more determined to push back. And the rest of the class?

They learned that if you mess up enough, you just get kicked out. No growth. No learning. Just punishment.

It took me years to realize that the real work isn’t in removing students; it’s in creating a classroom culture that makes removal unnecessary in the first place."

I’m Done Watching Teachers Give Up on Kids

Fed up with teachers giving up on kids? Discover why removing “disruptive” students fails everyone—and how building classroom community changes everything.

www.10publications.com

I came across this article on one of the educators feeds I constantly get in my inbox. Bear in mind these are NOT my words or my opinion, though I do agree with some of it to some degree. The author is obviously a drama queen feeling self-righteous. It may come across as "touchy feely" to those with no experience in a highly challenging urban school environment. Again, not my words.



"I’m fed up. Honestly, I’ve had it with the old-school crowd on X preaching the same tired nonsense about “removing disruptive kids” and keeping the “good kids” away from them.

Just this week, I read posts that made me want to throw my coffee across the room:





and






and






This is old-school education thinking at its worst—segregating kids, labeling them as “bad,” and pretending academics can thrive in a vacuum without addressing emotional needs. And I’m done being polite about it.

---

​

Old-School Discipline Hurts Everyone​

Isolating students doesn’t just fail the so-called “disruptive” kids—it fails every child in the classroom.

Here’s why:

1. It destroys belonging.
   When we remove students, we tell them they don’t belong. And when kids don’t feel like they belong, they stop caring. Period. They stop caring about school, about relationships, about themselves. I’ve seen this play out hundreds of times—kids labeled as “behavior problems” eventually wear that label like a badge. And once that happens, good luck getting them to re-engage.
2. It fuels resentment in the entire classroom.
   Students notice when peers are kicked out or consistently separated. It creates an “us vs. them” mentality. The so-called “good kids” begin to believe that anyone who struggles is a problem to get rid of, not a person to understand. That’s not education—that’s social conditioning to dehumanize people who are different.
3. It teaches nothing about empathy or responsibility.
   The whole point of being in a classroom community is to learn how to live in a community. You don’t learn empathy by sitting only with kids who never push your buttons. You don’t learn responsibility by having “the troublemakers” removed. You learn those things by navigating relationships with people who are different from you—who frustrate you, challenge you, and make you grow.
4. It puts academics over humanity.
   I keep seeing these old-school posts saying, “We need to focus on academics.” Let me ask you this: what kid learns well when they feel like they don’t belong? Show me the research that proves anxiety, isolation, and shame are the keys to higher test scores. Spoiler: it doesn’t exist.
5. It creates adults who quit when things get tough.
   If we teach kids that you just “remove” difficult people from your life, we’re setting them up for failure in the real world. Life doesn’t work that way. In jobs, relationships, and communities, you can’t just exile people who annoy you. Schools are supposed to prepare kids for life, not teach them to avoid it.

---

​

I Used to Be One of Those Teachers​

I get it—I really do. I used to be one of those teachers who thought removing “problem kids” was the answer. Early in my career, I believed that getting rid of disruptions would make my class run smoothly.

And yes, for a day or two, it was quiet. But you know what happened next? Those same kids came back angrier, more frustrated, and more determined to push back. And the rest of the class?

They learned that if you mess up enough, you just get kicked out. No growth. No learning. Just punishment.

It took me years to realize that the real work isn’t in removing students; it’s in creating a classroom culture that makes removal unnecessary in the first place."

I’m Done Watching Teachers Give Up on Kids

Fed up with teachers giving up on kids? Discover why removing “disruptive” students fails everyone—and how building classroom community changes everything.

www.10publications.com

So what's your solution to kids who continuously disrupt the education of the other students?

Lots of theoretical talk, not a lot of actual methods to fix the problem.

 

[SweetSue92]

A lot of kids actually don't. A lot of em are kind of forced into reliving or playing out dad's failed dreams. Trying to be somebody they're not in order to please someone else.

If you knew how many times I've had to have an umpire throw a parent out of a game because they were screaming at their kid like he's some kind of asshole in front of all of his friends from the bleachers because dad didn't feel that junior was living up to dad's own failed hopes and dreams, you wouldn't say that.

You can't do that in your environment. It's a damned administrative bureaucracy. And you only see them at fragmented stages of their lives anyway.

The kid would end up in some social workers office with a cop sitting in the corner and probably medicated, making matters worse.

In the capacity of my job, I teach kids from ages 4-5 to age almost 12.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I am on campus every day of the week.. even during summer school... and I also talk with teachers.... idiot....

Never contradict the midshipman, he knows ALL! Just ask him.

 

[Unkotare]

So what's your solution to kids who continuously disrupt the education of the other students?

Lots of theoretical talk, not a lot of actual methods to fix the problem.

Classroom management is a varied and complex issue. There are a lot of approaches to a student who is disrupting the learning of the other students. Sometimes it's as simple as redirecting the student's attention and refocusing them on the task at hand. Sometimes I'll take a student out into the hallway and have a personal word with them. Often this brief personal attention is all it takes to help a student realize what they are doing and why it's not appropriate. When you get to know students well personally you can prevent problems ahead of time by deliberately placing students into pair or group work with other students you know they can work with productively. I often invite disruptive students to stop by my classroom after school where I can let them discuss things that might be driving unproductive behavior if they choose to. Sometimes their issues are too expansive to deal with in the limited interactions they have with me and other approaches are needed. I try to keep open communication with the family or caretakers at home to see what we can do together to help a student succeed. We have guidance counselors, social workers, and community representatives to help with this. I have found that encouraging students to get involved with sports, student groups or other activities can sometimes give them an outlet that helps them focus their energy in more productive ways.

Of course, there are some students with issues that run too deep for any of these (and other) approaches to be effective. Immediate issues like fighting, throwing things, or threatening other students require their removal from the room right away. I have had to do this more often than I'd like. It's why the students most likely to engage in such behavior are often assigned to my classes. If a student has to be removed but later is returned, they are always welcomed back with respect and understanding. 2nd chance, 3rd chance, never give up. There is only so much you can do, but you do what you can.

An important approach to the differing capabilities of students in a given class is differentiation. Different versions of a given class activity can be adjusted to be more challenging for some students and a bit simpler for others. Sometimes the use of a struggling student's L1 can help them more successfully engage with class material as needed. This adds a great deal more time to lesson prep, but if it's what a student needs it should be made available. The more you get to know students the more you understand who needs what. It's about the students, not the convenience of the teacher.

There is so much more to it, but I hope that somewhat addresses your question.

 

[Unkotare]

Never contradict the midshipman, he knows ALL! Just ask him.

Would you admit he knows more than you?

 

[Unkotare]

In my job I have been hit, bitten, shoved into furniture and had things thrown at me.

...

By 6-year-olds.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You forget that the majority of the people here went to school. You may not remember a time when classes were orderly, but I assure you that time existed, and it needs to be reconceived...

He has an entirely-unwarranted belief in his own infallibility.

To be fair, you would reduce confusion if you were to take a stand on the article one way or another.

He NEVER does that. He will NEVER actually answer a question. He flames, trolls, lies, insults, occasionally libels...but will NEVER answer a simple question. He just filibusters until you get tired of dealing with his bullshit.

Now you just sound silly and without an argument against my opinion....

That's normal.

sigh

Okay, I'll bite.

What does Huckleberry Finn have to do with you posting an article while carefully explaining that these are "not my words?

What is your opinion of removing disruptive students from classrooms?

He has none. He will NEVER actually post his own "thoughts" such as they are, except as what he probably thinks is a clever veiled insult.

 

[martybegan]

Classroom management is a varied and complex issue. There are a lot of approaches to a student who is disrupting the learning of the other students. Sometimes it's as simple as redirecting the student's attention and refocusing them on the task at hand. Sometimes I'll take a student out into the hallway and have a personal word with them. Often this brief personal attention is all it takes to help a student realize what they are doing and why it's not appropriate. When you get to know students well personally you can prevent problems ahead of time by deliberately placing students into pair or group work with other students you know they can work with productively. I often invite disruptive students to stop by my classroom after school where I can let them discuss things that might be driving unproductive behavior if they choose to. Sometimes their issues are too expansive to deal with in the limited interactions they have with me and other approaches are needed. I try to keep open communication with the family or caretakers at home to see what we can do together to help a student succeed. We have guidance counselors, social workers, and community representatives to help with this. I have found that encouraging students to get involved with sports, student groups or other activities can sometimes give them an outlet that helps them focus their energy in more productive ways.

Of course, there are some students with issues that run too deep for any of these (and other) approaches to be effective. Immediate issues like fighting, throwing things, or threatening other students require their removal from the room right away. I have had to do this more often than I'd like. It's why the students most likely to engage in such behavior are often assigned to my classes. If a student has to be removed but later is returned, they are always welcomed back with respect and understanding. 2nd chance, 3rd chance, never give up. There is only so much you can do, but you do what you can.

An important approach to the differing capabilities of students in a given class is differentiation. Different versions of a given class activity can be adjusted to be more challenging for some students and a bit simpler for others. Sometimes the use of a struggling student's L1 can help them more successfully engage with class material as needed. This adds a great deal more time to lesson prep, but if it's what a student needs it should be made available. The more you get to know students the more you understand who needs what. It's about the students, not the convenience of the teacher.

There is so much more to it, but I hope that somewhat addresses your question.

That's like me explaining the detailed processes of wastewater treatment to someone that just wants to know that their water will be treated properly and how we plan on fixing the issue if the plant isn't functioning properly.

You forget you are providing a service to customers, and customers are the parents and the students. They want an answer and a plan to fix the problem not an explanation of how hard it is.

So, stop answering a simple question with a wall of academic gobblygook.

 

[Jarlaxle]

By 6-year-olds.

Are you playing stupid, are you illiterate, or are you just lying?

 

[Unkotare]

sigh

Okay, I'll bite.

What does Huckleberry Finn have to do with you posting an article while carefully explaining that these are "not my words?
...

Have you ever read it?

 

[Unkotare]

That's like me explaining the detailed processes of wastewater treatment to someone that just wants to know that their water will be treated properly and how we plan on fixing the issue if the plant isn't functioning properly.

You forget you are providing a service to customers, and customers are the parents and the students. They want an answer and a plan to fix the problem not an explanation of how hard it is.

So, stop answering a simple question with a wall of academic gobblygook.

You asked for an explanation, and I gave you a pretty damn detailed explanation. What do you want? If you just want bitching and moaning, go ask the old broad who hates her job but is afraid to quit.

 

[martybegan]

You asked for an explanation, and I gave you a pretty damn detailed explanation. What do you want? If you just want bitching and moaning, go ask the old broad who hates her job but is afraid to quit.

And I gave you a reason why your explanation isn't good enough.

I explained a failure like that on my job I would be fired.

It was too detailed, and didn't actually answer the question, just complained the answer is too too hard.

 

[Unkotare]

Are you playing stupid, are you illiterate, or are you just lying?

Go ask her. She has whined about it here many, many times.

 

[Jarlaxle]

And I gave you a reason why your explanation isn't good enough.

I explained a failure like that on my job I would be fired.

It was too detailed, and didn't actually answer the question, just complained the answer is too too hard.

I see you have figured out unk!