Discipline

[Unkotare]

...

It was too detailed, and didn't actually answer the question, just complained the answer is too too hard.

"It was too detailed"? Really?

It directly answered your question. Don't be too needy.

 

[martybegan]

"It was too detailed"? Really?

It directly answered your question. Don't be too needy.

Yes. There is such thing. What you did was avoid proposing a solution by complaining how hard the problem is.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I came across this article on one of the educators feeds I constantly get in my inbox. Bear in mind these are NOT my words or my opinion, though I do agree with some of it to some degree. The author is obviously a drama queen feeling self-righteous. It may come across as "touchy feely" to those with no experience in a highly challenging urban school environment. Again, not my words.



"I’m fed up. Honestly, I’ve had it with the old-school crowd on X preaching the same tired nonsense about “removing disruptive kids” and keeping the “good kids” away from them.

Just this week, I read posts that made me want to throw my coffee across the room:





and






and






This is old-school education thinking at its worst—segregating kids, labeling them as “bad,” and pretending academics can thrive in a vacuum without addressing emotional needs. And I’m done being polite about it.

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​

Old-School Discipline Hurts Everyone​

Isolating students doesn’t just fail the so-called “disruptive” kids—it fails every child in the classroom.

Here’s why:

1. It destroys belonging.
   When we remove students, we tell them they don’t belong. And when kids don’t feel like they belong, they stop caring. Period. They stop caring about school, about relationships, about themselves. I’ve seen this play out hundreds of times—kids labeled as “behavior problems” eventually wear that label like a badge. And once that happens, good luck getting them to re-engage.
2. It fuels resentment in the entire classroom.
   Students notice when peers are kicked out or consistently separated. It creates an “us vs. them” mentality. The so-called “good kids” begin to believe that anyone who struggles is a problem to get rid of, not a person to understand. That’s not education—that’s social conditioning to dehumanize people who are different.
3. It teaches nothing about empathy or responsibility.
   The whole point of being in a classroom community is to learn how to live in a community. You don’t learn empathy by sitting only with kids who never push your buttons. You don’t learn responsibility by having “the troublemakers” removed. You learn those things by navigating relationships with people who are different from you—who frustrate you, challenge you, and make you grow.
4. It puts academics over humanity.
   I keep seeing these old-school posts saying, “We need to focus on academics.” Let me ask you this: what kid learns well when they feel like they don’t belong? Show me the research that proves anxiety, isolation, and shame are the keys to higher test scores. Spoiler: it doesn’t exist.
5. It creates adults who quit when things get tough.
   If we teach kids that you just “remove” difficult people from your life, we’re setting them up for failure in the real world. Life doesn’t work that way. In jobs, relationships, and communities, you can’t just exile people who annoy you. Schools are supposed to prepare kids for life, not teach them to avoid it.

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I Used to Be One of Those Teachers​

I get it—I really do. I used to be one of those teachers who thought removing “problem kids” was the answer. Early in my career, I believed that getting rid of disruptions would make my class run smoothly.

And yes, for a day or two, it was quiet. But you know what happened next? Those same kids came back angrier, more frustrated, and more determined to push back. And the rest of the class?

They learned that if you mess up enough, you just get kicked out. No growth. No learning. Just punishment.

It took me years to realize that the real work isn’t in removing students; it’s in creating a classroom culture that makes removal unnecessary in the first place."

I’m Done Watching Teachers Give Up on Kids

Fed up with teachers giving up on kids? Discover why removing “disruptive” students fails everyone—and how building classroom community changes everything.

www.10publications.com

Modern American “Education” is one of our greatest failures. It does NOTHING to curate interested students and redirect students with no interest in learning into other endeavors.

I speak as one who was always in the “gifted classes” studied Dante’s Inferno in middle school—in the Bronx! (One of my classmates went to MIT and Stanford to develop the first IBM punchcard computer chess program)

And even at that I found it stupefying and soul crushing, I spend a good part of time day dreaming. There was little to no interest in helping me find what I want to be when I grow up, how to work with classmates, how the world works and what matters in life.

 

[Unkotare]

...
He NEVER does that. He will NEVER actually answer a question. ...

Do you realize you posted this right after I "actually" answered the question?

 

[Unkotare]

...

So, stop answering a simple question with a wall of academic gobblygook.

You didn't read it, did you?

 

[martybegan]

Do you realize you posted this right after I "actually" answered the question?

That wasn't an answer. it was a 5 paragraph excuse.

 

[martybegan]

You didn't read it, did you?

I did read it, and it wasn't an answer, it was an excuse.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes. There is such thing. What you did was avoid proposing a solution by complaining how hard the problem is.

You clearly didn't read my response. If there is any part you don't understand, just ask.

 

[Unkotare]

I did read it, and it wasn't an answer, it was an excuse.

You didn't read it. I included 10 very specific answers to your original question. Don't blame me if you're too lazy to read.

 

[martybegan]

You clearly didn't read my response. If there is any part you don't understand, just ask.

I did. Again, if I responded to a simple question on how to fix something with that answer I would be unemployed very quickly.

You are discussing with an Engineer, someone trained to FIX problems, not explain why it's so hard to fix said problem.

 

[Unkotare]

...

You are discussing with an Engineer, someone trained to FIX problems, not explain why it's so hard to fix said problem.

Are you trained to read, or are you too lazy?

 

[martybegan]

Are you trained to read, or are you too lazy?

I read it. It explains how hard the problem is without giving a concrete answer on how to fix the problem.

Please quote the section with that if it exists.

You are complaining about proposed solutions that include separation from normal classes, not giving a concrete alternative.

 

[SweetSue92]

By 6-year-olds.

No, by older kids who are bigger than me.

 

[Unkotare]

I read it. It explains how hard the problem is without giving a concrete answer on how to fix the problem.

....

At least 10. I'm not going to make you a bullet-point list just because you're lazy.

 

[yidnar]

enough arguing ! I have the answer !

 

[Unkotare]

No, by older kids who are bigger than me.

How about 18-year-olds who are 6'5", 300+pounds and fresh out of prison? Boo-hoo about small children playing the recorder.

 

[martybegan]

At least 10. I'm not going to make you a bullet-point list just because you're lazy.

I see zero. I see a lot of "it depends on the situation" with ZERO direction proposals on that guidance.

Otaku much?

 

[Unkotare]

I see zero....

Then you don't want to.

 

[yidnar]

How about 18-year-olds who are 6'5", 300+pounds and fresh out of prison? Boo-hoo about small children playing the recorder.

that would require a 2 part solution ..

1st

2nd

 

[martybegan]

Then you don't want to.

Bullshit. I want a straight answer that you seem incapable of giving.