Dirty, polluting, Wind Power

[9aces]

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

Torque is your issue.. Wind hitting the turbine at X speed produces xx torque. That Torque is offset by magnets within the generator. By reducing the size you also reduce the output and need for torque.

The problem is three fold.

1. All wind turbines have rotation gears, offsetting magnetic fields within the generator, and the pressure on the individual blades is never constant and can vary widely. These conditions will always cause vibration.

Lighter is not always better as vibrations tear apart lighter steels and aluminum. Even by reducing the output (size of the gen set) you will not escape this.

2. Control systems require constant maintenance. If your not facing into the wind or 90 deg opposing (furled) you will get massive vibrations and wear on the main bearings. even in smaller versions of these units you can not escape this.

3. Reduced size means lower output and thus the need for more of them. Increasing the number of problems solves nothing..

There are many designs for wind turbines. They are designed for the average wind speed of your wind zone. They must be able to self furle (shut down) so they do not self destruct if they over speed due to to much wind or to fast.

There is much left to be learned in this field..

But does smaller = lower output? You're assuming it's made out of materials you're apparently familiar with....what if it isn't?

One. We would have to over come the vibrations or make them resistant in some way to make them last longer and reduce upkeep.

Two. The output, if it could be kept to near 50,000kw (much bigger than this and the magnets are to big to place into a gen set) would be interesting.

Three. the need for lubrication and control... how can we reduce the need for these and make the unit self sustaining?

This is a young industry that was pushed long before it was ready for prime time.. The environmental issues are ones that need to be addressed as well.. Bird kill, low hum vibrations and animal behavioral changes, etc...

Aerogel. If you haven't been following that development...I'd start if I were you.

HMMmmmmmmm

"First synthesized in 1931, aerogels were the result of a bet between two chemists. Knowing that jellies are mostly pectin gelled with water, they challenged each other to remove the water without shrinking the jelly. Now aerogels are among the least dense solids, possess compressive specific strength similar to aerospace grade graphite composite, and provide the smallest thermal conductivity for any solid."

Source

See what I mean? They're not there yet, but they're on the way. Some of the deformation testing I've reviewed has revealed...at least to me some tantalizing possibilities.

 

[Billy_Bob]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

That you need to build them forever increasing the use of coal and oil.

Just imagine how great General Motors could be if only they could sell 10 cars to every person instead of 1.

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

 

[9aces]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

That you need to build them forever increasing the use of coal and oil.

Just imagine how great General Motors could be if only they could sell 10 cars to every person instead of 1.

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

 

[elektra]

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

That you need to build them forever increasing the use of coal and oil.

Just imagine how great General Motors could be if only they could sell 10 cars to every person instead of 1.

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

 

[9aces]

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

That you need to build them forever increasing the use of coal and oil.

Just imagine how great General Motors could be if only they could sell 10 cars to every person instead of 1.

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

 

[elektra]

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

That you need to build them forever increasing the use of coal and oil.

Just imagine how great General Motors could be if only they could sell 10 cars to every person instead of 1.

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

 

[9aces]

That you need to build them forever increasing the use of coal and oil.

Just imagine how great General Motors could be if only they could sell 10 cars to every person instead of 1.

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

 

[elektra]

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

Nice dodge, I dug up the cost thread for you.

 

[elektra]

This is actually the biggest hurdle of them all.. Making them well enough that they last for decades and quit using up valuable resources... But this clashes with the buisness model of making huge amounts of money... Greed is trumping making things that last and that are reasonably priced.

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

Maybe you should do some research on aerogel, like:

What type of aerogel do you refer to, there are at least 3 types? Yes? Without being specific it seems like you are the one who has not done any research.

And which process do you suggest for its manufacture? Again by simply throwing around a generic term with zero details I say you have not done anything mire than read a feel good article.

 

[9aces]

Actually it doesn't clash with making huge amounts of money. Stretch the mind gentlemen, stop thinking in their terms, and think about the ability to marry something like that windspire design, which btw I hadn't seen but I like.....and size....and I don't mean bigger.

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

Maybe you should do some research on aerogel, like:

What type of aerogel do you refer to, there are at least 3 types? Yes? Without being specific it seems like you are the one who has not done any research.

And which process do you suggest for its manufacture? Again by simply throwing around a generic term with zero details I say you have not done anything mire than read a feel good article.

Start here. Aerogel.org

Graphene Aerogel, 3D printed into super capacitors. This isn't bad. Researchers 3D print ultralight supercapacitors

Work from there into X Aerogels Aerogel.org » Strong and Flexible Aerogels and polymide aerogels Aerogel Technologies | What can aerogel do for you?™ is making larger and stronger materials.

It's a terrific insulator Aerogel produces a good product.

Which one? All of them have possibilities for use. Lighter blades, better capacitors, better insulators. Less heat, less friction, less vibration, less wind to move.

This is just a tiny piece in ONE industry of what might be possible. Don't be stuck in the past or the now. Look ahead at how something like this can work, if it continues to advance? Ever thought you'd see something lighter than aluminum that could support a load only steel used to be able to? It can't yet, but it's come an awfully long way from something that shattered when you looked at it wrong.

 

[elektra]

Stop thinking in thier terms? Who's?

No comment on my reply?

You do not have enough land nor wind for these ever to be significant.

Did you post the capacity factor? Without the capacity factor you have not addressed much of anything.

And the increased use of coal and oil to produce these by the millions, will you acount for that as well?

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

Maybe you should do some research on aerogel, like:

What type of aerogel do you refer to, there are at least 3 types? Yes? Without being specific it seems like you are the one who has not done any research.

And which process do you suggest for its manufacture? Again by simply throwing around a generic term with zero details I say you have not done anything mire than read a feel good article.

Start here. Aerogel.org

Graphene Aerogel, 3D printed into super capacitors. This isn't bad. Researchers 3D print ultralight supercapacitors

Work from there into X Aerogels Aerogel.org » Strong and Flexible Aerogels and polymide aerogels Aerogel Technologies | What can aerogel do for you?™ is making larger and stronger materials.

It's a terrific insulator Aerogel produces a good product.

Which one? All of them have possibilities for use. Lighter blades, better capacitors, better insulators. Less heat, less friction, less vibration, less wind to move.

This is just a tiny piece in ONE industry of what might be possible. Don't be stuck in the past or the now. Look ahead at how something like this can work, if it continues to advance? Ever thought you'd see something lighter than aluminum that could support a load only steel used to be able to? It can't yet, but it's come an awfully long way from something that shattered when you looked at it wrong.

Wind is the past, 1000's of years old, and you can never address rhe capacity factor.

Either way, you have proposed the use of more coal to produce millions of wind turbines. Millions becayse you can not escape the fact that to compensate for the weakness of wind the solution is to increase the scale by factors nobody cares to admit.

On Aerogel, like I said which type do you propose and which process? Links are fine, go ahead and read them and tell us tbe type and process.

 

[9aces]

Yes, you will have to use some power to make them. And by capacity factor I'm assuming you're referring to energy storage? Or are you referring to the load limit on active use?

If it's the former...you really should look into some of it's other applications. Or it's other properties. There's a lot of birds that might be killed by that same stone if they can get it's properties to be more useful structurally.

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

Maybe you should do some research on aerogel, like:

What type of aerogel do you refer to, there are at least 3 types? Yes? Without being specific it seems like you are the one who has not done any research.

And which process do you suggest for its manufacture? Again by simply throwing around a generic term with zero details I say you have not done anything mire than read a feel good article.

Start here. Aerogel.org

Graphene Aerogel, 3D printed into super capacitors. This isn't bad. Researchers 3D print ultralight supercapacitors

Work from there into X Aerogels Aerogel.org » Strong and Flexible Aerogels and polymide aerogels Aerogel Technologies | What can aerogel do for you?™ is making larger and stronger materials.

It's a terrific insulator Aerogel produces a good product.

Which one? All of them have possibilities for use. Lighter blades, better capacitors, better insulators. Less heat, less friction, less vibration, less wind to move.

This is just a tiny piece in ONE industry of what might be possible. Don't be stuck in the past or the now. Look ahead at how something like this can work, if it continues to advance? Ever thought you'd see something lighter than aluminum that could support a load only steel used to be able to? It can't yet, but it's come an awfully long way from something that shattered when you looked at it wrong.

Wind is the past, 1000's of years old, and you can never address rhe capacity factor.

Either way, you have proposed the use of more coal to produce millions of wind turbines. Millions becayse you can not escape the fact that to compensate for the weakness of wind the solution is to increase the scale by factors nobody cares to admit.

On Aerogel, like I said which type do you propose and which process? Links are fine, go ahead and read them and tell us tbe type and process.

There's your problem. I am compensating for the weakness of the wind. If you need according to what I saw, a 3.5m/s cut in speed. What if you can cut that to 1m/s? You're not overcoming as much inertia to start the fan, takes less energy to keep it moving, doesn't require as high a windspeed.

X-aerogels would be needed to form the structural members. Possibly as sub-structural members, possibly as the entire blade using polymide as well. I can't give you the capacity factor, because as of now there's too many variables. Hell just using the right design, as Billy pointed out there's a LOT of them to maximize the use would be a chore figuring out.

But you cannot say that something lighter, stronger, and doesn't transfer heat the same doesn't have possibilities. It's not there yet, but look how far it's come in the last decade.

You seem stuck in trying to project me as saying DO THIS NOW!!! Which I'm not.

 

[elektra]

Storage? Wind power can never reach peak power needs let alone gave a need to be stored.

No, that is not capacity factor. If you actually read a bit about wind turbines, and energy you would know what the capacuty factor is.

Yes? You will use some power to nake them, you mean some wind power? Nope, wrobg again, you must increase the use of coal. Wind Turbine manufacturing is dependent on Coal. Period.

Wind Power can not supply the power to manufacture Wind Turbines, it is fossil fuel dependent.

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

Maybe you should do some research on aerogel, like:

What type of aerogel do you refer to, there are at least 3 types? Yes? Without being specific it seems like you are the one who has not done any research.

And which process do you suggest for its manufacture? Again by simply throwing around a generic term with zero details I say you have not done anything mire than read a feel good article.

Start here. Aerogel.org

Graphene Aerogel, 3D printed into super capacitors. This isn't bad. Researchers 3D print ultralight supercapacitors

Work from there into X Aerogels Aerogel.org » Strong and Flexible Aerogels and polymide aerogels Aerogel Technologies | What can aerogel do for you?™ is making larger and stronger materials.

It's a terrific insulator Aerogel produces a good product.

Which one? All of them have possibilities for use. Lighter blades, better capacitors, better insulators. Less heat, less friction, less vibration, less wind to move.

This is just a tiny piece in ONE industry of what might be possible. Don't be stuck in the past or the now. Look ahead at how something like this can work, if it continues to advance? Ever thought you'd see something lighter than aluminum that could support a load only steel used to be able to? It can't yet, but it's come an awfully long way from something that shattered when you looked at it wrong.

Wind is the past, 1000's of years old, and you can never address rhe capacity factor.

Either way, you have proposed the use of more coal to produce millions of wind turbines. Millions becayse you can not escape the fact that to compensate for the weakness of wind the solution is to increase the scale by factors nobody cares to admit.

On Aerogel, like I said which type do you propose and which process? Links are fine, go ahead and read them and tell us tbe type and process.

There's your problem. I am compensating for the weakness of the wind. If you need according to what I saw, a 3.5m/s cut in speed. What if you can cut that to 1m/s? You're not overcoming as much inertia to start the fan, takes less energy to keep it moving, doesn't require as high a windspeed.

X-aerogels would be needed to form the structural members. Possibly as sub-structural members, possibly as the entire blade using polymide as well. I can't give you the capacity factor, because as of now there's too many variables. Hell just using the right design, as Billy pointed out there's a LOT of them to maximize the use would be a chore figuring out.

But you cannot say that something lighter, stronger, and doesn't transfer heat the same doesn't have possibilities. It's not there yet, but look how far it's come in the last decade.

You seem stuck in trying to project me as saying DO THIS NOW!!! Which I'm not.

Which type of aerogel? X-aerogel is a trademark not a type. Which type and what process?

Capacity factor? Sorry to burden you with the basics, but your lightweight design will have a capacity factor of 1.3%. Not economically feasable at any cost.

I concede, all you say will work, now how do you propose building 100's of millions without increasing the use of hydrocarbons.

 

[9aces]

You should really do some research on Aerogel. Hopefully it'll open your eyes. Right now you seem stuck in the way THEY think, because they've framed the argument you're used to fighting against.

You're not a dumb guy. Start with a blank slate, and think about how something that weighs much less, requires a much lower threshold to generate electricity...and most importantly doesn't have the same issues with longevity that current materials being used do.

You'll find you don't need the huge farms, or only areas where winds get to a certain threshold to place them. Look at it as an engineering problem, not trying to take what THEY know and make it work....because what they're doing now won't.

Maybe you should do some research on aerogel, like:

What type of aerogel do you refer to, there are at least 3 types? Yes? Without being specific it seems like you are the one who has not done any research.

And which process do you suggest for its manufacture? Again by simply throwing around a generic term with zero details I say you have not done anything mire than read a feel good article.

Start here. Aerogel.org

Graphene Aerogel, 3D printed into super capacitors. This isn't bad. Researchers 3D print ultralight supercapacitors

Work from there into X Aerogels Aerogel.org » Strong and Flexible Aerogels and polymide aerogels Aerogel Technologies | What can aerogel do for you?™ is making larger and stronger materials.

It's a terrific insulator Aerogel produces a good product.

Which one? All of them have possibilities for use. Lighter blades, better capacitors, better insulators. Less heat, less friction, less vibration, less wind to move.

This is just a tiny piece in ONE industry of what might be possible. Don't be stuck in the past or the now. Look ahead at how something like this can work, if it continues to advance? Ever thought you'd see something lighter than aluminum that could support a load only steel used to be able to? It can't yet, but it's come an awfully long way from something that shattered when you looked at it wrong.

Wind is the past, 1000's of years old, and you can never address rhe capacity factor.

Either way, you have proposed the use of more coal to produce millions of wind turbines. Millions becayse you can not escape the fact that to compensate for the weakness of wind the solution is to increase the scale by factors nobody cares to admit.

On Aerogel, like I said which type do you propose and which process? Links are fine, go ahead and read them and tell us tbe type and process.

There's your problem. I am compensating for the weakness of the wind. If you need according to what I saw, a 3.5m/s cut in speed. What if you can cut that to 1m/s? You're not overcoming as much inertia to start the fan, takes less energy to keep it moving, doesn't require as high a windspeed.

X-aerogels would be needed to form the structural members. Possibly as sub-structural members, possibly as the entire blade using polymide as well. I can't give you the capacity factor, because as of now there's too many variables. Hell just using the right design, as Billy pointed out there's a LOT of them to maximize the use would be a chore figuring out.

But you cannot say that something lighter, stronger, and doesn't transfer heat the same doesn't have possibilities. It's not there yet, but look how far it's come in the last decade.

You seem stuck in trying to project me as saying DO THIS NOW!!! Which I'm not.

Which type of aerogel? X-aerogel is a trademark not a type. Which type and what process?

Capacity factor? Sorry to burden you with the basics, but your lightweight design will have a capacity factor of 1.3%. Not economically feasable at any cost.

I concede, all you say will work, now how do you propose building 100's of millions without increasing the use of hydrocarbons.

Where'd you get the 1.3% factor? I didn't see a number that low in any of the wind designs I scanned through. It would seem counterinuitive that something lighter would produce less, in that it would be able to generate in conditions that currently aren't possible, for longer.

Not saying you're wrong, just asking how you came to that number.

 

[elektra]

Maybe you should do some research on aerogel, like:

What type of aerogel do you refer to, there are at least 3 types? Yes? Without being specific it seems like you are the one who has not done any research.

And which process do you suggest for its manufacture? Again by simply throwing around a generic term with zero details I say you have not done anything mire than read a feel good article.

Start here. Aerogel.org

Graphene Aerogel, 3D printed into super capacitors. This isn't bad. Researchers 3D print ultralight supercapacitors

Work from there into X Aerogels Aerogel.org » Strong and Flexible Aerogels and polymide aerogels Aerogel Technologies | What can aerogel do for you?™ is making larger and stronger materials.

It's a terrific insulator Aerogel produces a good product.

Which one? All of them have possibilities for use. Lighter blades, better capacitors, better insulators. Less heat, less friction, less vibration, less wind to move.

This is just a tiny piece in ONE industry of what might be possible. Don't be stuck in the past or the now. Look ahead at how something like this can work, if it continues to advance? Ever thought you'd see something lighter than aluminum that could support a load only steel used to be able to? It can't yet, but it's come an awfully long way from something that shattered when you looked at it wrong.

Wind is the past, 1000's of years old, and you can never address rhe capacity factor.

Either way, you have proposed the use of more coal to produce millions of wind turbines. Millions becayse you can not escape the fact that to compensate for the weakness of wind the solution is to increase the scale by factors nobody cares to admit.

On Aerogel, like I said which type do you propose and which process? Links are fine, go ahead and read them and tell us tbe type and process.

There's your problem. I am compensating for the weakness of the wind. If you need according to what I saw, a 3.5m/s cut in speed. What if you can cut that to 1m/s? You're not overcoming as much inertia to start the fan, takes less energy to keep it moving, doesn't require as high a windspeed.

X-aerogels would be needed to form the structural members. Possibly as sub-structural members, possibly as the entire blade using polymide as well. I can't give you the capacity factor, because as of now there's too many variables. Hell just using the right design, as Billy pointed out there's a LOT of them to maximize the use would be a chore figuring out.

But you cannot say that something lighter, stronger, and doesn't transfer heat the same doesn't have possibilities. It's not there yet, but look how far it's come in the last decade.

You seem stuck in trying to project me as saying DO THIS NOW!!! Which I'm not.

Which type of aerogel? X-aerogel is a trademark not a type. Which type and what process?

Capacity factor? Sorry to burden you with the basics, but your lightweight design will have a capacity factor of 1.3%. Not economically feasable at any cost.

I concede, all you say will work, now how do you propose building 100's of millions without increasing the use of hydrocarbons.

Where'd you get the 1.3% factor? I didn't see a number that low in any of the wind designs I scanned through. It would seem counterinuitive that something lighter would produce less, in that it would be able to generate in conditions that currently aren't possible, for longer.

Not saying you're wrong, just asking how you came to that number.

I calculated that is low because I assume you are having a tough time digging up the details so at 1.3% I could negotiate up to 9-13% if you came up with19%.

 

[9aces]

Start here. Aerogel.org

Graphene Aerogel, 3D printed into super capacitors. This isn't bad. Researchers 3D print ultralight supercapacitors

Work from there into X Aerogels Aerogel.org » Strong and Flexible Aerogels and polymide aerogels Aerogel Technologies | What can aerogel do for you?™ is making larger and stronger materials.

It's a terrific insulator Aerogel produces a good product.

Which one? All of them have possibilities for use. Lighter blades, better capacitors, better insulators. Less heat, less friction, less vibration, less wind to move.

This is just a tiny piece in ONE industry of what might be possible. Don't be stuck in the past or the now. Look ahead at how something like this can work, if it continues to advance? Ever thought you'd see something lighter than aluminum that could support a load only steel used to be able to? It can't yet, but it's come an awfully long way from something that shattered when you looked at it wrong.

Wind is the past, 1000's of years old, and you can never address rhe capacity factor.

Either way, you have proposed the use of more coal to produce millions of wind turbines. Millions becayse you can not escape the fact that to compensate for the weakness of wind the solution is to increase the scale by factors nobody cares to admit.

On Aerogel, like I said which type do you propose and which process? Links are fine, go ahead and read them and tell us tbe type and process.

There's your problem. I am compensating for the weakness of the wind. If you need according to what I saw, a 3.5m/s cut in speed. What if you can cut that to 1m/s? You're not overcoming as much inertia to start the fan, takes less energy to keep it moving, doesn't require as high a windspeed.

X-aerogels would be needed to form the structural members. Possibly as sub-structural members, possibly as the entire blade using polymide as well. I can't give you the capacity factor, because as of now there's too many variables. Hell just using the right design, as Billy pointed out there's a LOT of them to maximize the use would be a chore figuring out.

But you cannot say that something lighter, stronger, and doesn't transfer heat the same doesn't have possibilities. It's not there yet, but look how far it's come in the last decade.

You seem stuck in trying to project me as saying DO THIS NOW!!! Which I'm not.

Which type of aerogel? X-aerogel is a trademark not a type. Which type and what process?

Capacity factor? Sorry to burden you with the basics, but your lightweight design will have a capacity factor of 1.3%. Not economically feasable at any cost.

I concede, all you say will work, now how do you propose building 100's of millions without increasing the use of hydrocarbons.

Where'd you get the 1.3% factor? I didn't see a number that low in any of the wind designs I scanned through. It would seem counterinuitive that something lighter would produce less, in that it would be able to generate in conditions that currently aren't possible, for longer.

Not saying you're wrong, just asking how you came to that number.

Simple, You were posting everything but the capacity factor, so I assumed it must be difficult to find so it has to be low. If you came back with 23% I could megotiate up to 9.5-13%.

We have technology that works, is safe. I do not see how you think producing much more to do much less seems like a good idea to you.

Whatever makes you think you'll produce less? Should produce far more considering the physics of moving the blades, and range of wind speeds it could operate in. Hell just designing the most efficient model to use it would be a nontrivial challenge. Not to mention on a per item basis, may take less raw materials/energy to make.

While I know it's not exactly the same thing. Think of a kid's pinwheel. Make one out of iron (7.8 g/cm3), put a 2 m/s wind on it. Isn't going to move, too much inertia to overcome due to the weight, and friction of the hub. Make one out of Aluminum (2.7 g/cm3), same conditions, will it move? Half the weight? Carbon fiber's about 1.8 g/cm3 or so from what I saw. Less than that? While material as light as you can make aerogel (the 1 mg/cm3 is nuts) isn't going to be useful, suppose you can make it at 0.8 g/cm3? It's going to move. At that point it's how can you transfer that energy.

A capacity factor can't be calculated yet, because the capability doesn't yet exist to build using that material. If you look at the progress in structural shapes and strengths, it's on a path to be feasible though.

 

[elektra]

Lighter means a much smaller generator, much smaller. There is a reason that wind turbines are being designed as heavy as they are, they have already designed light ones which failed. Thousands in palm springs. It has been tried, nobody is doing something new here.

Either way, even if it works you need 100's of millions of them, increasing production of industry to supply much less power is insanity.

Further, wind turbines increase the use of coal, you can nit build them without coal.

 

[9aces]

Lighter means a much smaller generator, much smaller. There is a reason that wind turbines are being designed as heavy as they are, they have already designed light ones which failed. Thousands in palm springs. It has been tried, nobody is doing something new here.

Either way, even if it works you need 100's of millions of them, increasing production of industry to supply much less power is insanity.

Further, wind turbines increase the use of coal, you can nit build them without coal.

Point where I've said....anywhere I've said do away with coal? Or not use coal, or gas, or oil?

I've said only do it, if you can make it if it generates more power over it's lifetime, than it requires to produce/maintain.

Are you talking about these? Huge forest of Giant Wind Turbines Near Palm Springs In Southern California

If you're pointing out why those fail...hell son have you not been paying attention that I agree with you about how they're trying to do it now?

 

[Billy_Bob]

Areogels have promise.. It is what they are now making unbreakable cell phone screens with. You can almost bend them at 90 deg and they wont self destruct. They also survive moderate impact blows.

They also have flaws. They do not handle heat well and are prone to tensile stress fracture. In wind turbine designs there are two major factors.. Heat and tensile stress all coupled with vibration.

Smaller wind turbines will not solve the vibration problem or the heat problem. It would really only help with the tensile strength problem. But smaller means they would have to make many more of them and then battery storage would be a must for long term use.

Bottom line, Wind and PV arrays are not ready for prime time on any level.

 

[Crick]

Show us a link to someone using aerogels for cell phone screens.