Dirty, polluting, Wind Power

[elektra]

Lol! Mind if I ask you why you took pictures of that? Kind of unusual.

I took the pics to make this thread. I was startled to see the leaking oil polluting the desert abd our water.

What is so unusual about taking pics of pollution? People do it all the time. People take pics of accidents, fires, buildings collapsing, earthquakes, these pics fit right in.

If you witnessed something polluting the environment that was uniticed or not reported would you not take a photo if you were looking at it with a camera in your hand?

No, I'm talking about the picture that I quoted above? You said it was a picture of a coal burning facility? Just wondering why you went around taking these kinds of pictures. I thought it may have been related to your job. Don't be offended.

The laughing out loud thing threw me. The quote buried the pic so I could not understand that you were replying to this pic.

I work in electricsl power plants, driving into the Beaver Valley Nuclear plant we pass the Beaver Valley Power Plant. The sun was rising that late winter day. It illuminated the steam, the contrails of the jets, the power lines crisscrossed the sky, I found it spectacular. Funny that someone here demanded a pic of clean coal.

 

[elektra]

And yes, I work in electrical power plants. I like to pat myself on the back.

I am a Electrical Power Research Institute analyst. I work in the Nuclear Division of Curtiss Wright, wright as in the Wright brothers

 

[ChrisL]

And yes, I work in electrical power plants. I like to pat myself on the back.

I am a Electrical Power Research Institute analyst. I work in the Nuclear Division of Curtiss Wright, wright as in the Wright brothers

Awesome! Sounds like a great job!

 

[elektra]

It pays good but is contract to contract, it has sent me around the world but kept me from family and friends. Sometimes I have good years, sometimes not.

 

[elektra]

 

[elektra]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

 

[elektra]

INVESTIGATION LAUNCHED INTO HYDRAULIC OIL LEAKS AT OCOTILLO WIND FACILITY

[
July 22, 2014 (Ocotillo)—A Summary of Violations has been issued to Ocotillo Wind Express (OWE) for alleged violations of state law due to hydraulic oil leaks observed during a complaint investigation, Sandy Nax at the Department of Toxic Substances Control with the California Environmental Protection Agency in Imperial County confirmed today.

I thought I was the only one that noticed, it seems 40% of all Wind Turbines are currently leaking Oil, polluting the World they claim they are saving.

 

[Billy_Bob]

INVESTIGATION LAUNCHED INTO HYDRAULIC OIL LEAKS AT OCOTILLO WIND FACILITY

[
July 22, 2014 (Ocotillo)—A Summary of Violations has been issued to Ocotillo Wind Express (OWE) for alleged violations of state law due to hydraulic oil leaks observed during a complaint investigation, Sandy Nax at the Department of Toxic Substances Control with the California Environmental Protection Agency in Imperial County confirmed today.

I thought I was the only one that noticed, it seems 40% of all Wind Turbines are currently leaking Oil, polluting the World they claim they are saving.

The problem is wide spread.. Its called vibration and seal wear. The average wind turbine makes over 4,000 adjustments each day..

 

[ChrisL]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

 

[elektra]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

 

[9aces]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

 

[Billy_Bob]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

Torque is your issue.. Wind hitting the turbine at X speed produces xx torque. That Torque is offset by magnets within the generator. By reducing the size you also reduce the output and need for torque.

The problem is three fold.

1. All wind turbines have rotation gears, offsetting magnetic fields within the generator, and the pressure on the individual blades is never constant and can vary widely. These conditions will always cause vibration.

Lighter is not always better as vibrations tear apart lighter steels and aluminum. Even by reducing the output (size of the gen set) you will not escape this.

2. Control systems require constant maintenance. If your not facing into the wind or 90 deg opposing (furled) you will get massive vibrations and wear on the main bearings. even in smaller versions of these units you can not escape this.

3. Reduced size means lower output and thus the need for more of them. Increasing the number of problems solves nothing..

There are many designs for wind turbines. They are designed for the average wind speed of your wind zone. They must be able to self furle (shut down) so they do not self destruct if they over speed due to to much wind or to fast.

There is much left to be learned in this field..

 

[9aces]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

Torque is your issue.. Wind hitting the turbine at X speed produces xx torque. That Torque is offset by magnets within the generator. By reducing the size you also reduce the output and need for torque.

The problem is three fold.

1. All wind turbines have rotation gears, offsetting magnetic fields within the generator, and the pressure on the individual blades is never constant and can vary widely. These conditions will always cause vibration.

Lighter is not always better as vibrations tear apart lighter steels and aluminum. Even by reducing the output (size of the gen set) you will not escape this.

2. Control systems require constant maintenance. If your not facing into the wind or 90 deg opposing (furled) you will get massive vibrations and wear on the main bearings. even in smaller versions of these units you can not escape this.

3. Reduced size means lower output and thus the need for more of them. Increasing the number of problems solves nothing..

There are many designs for wind turbines. They are designed for the average wind speed of your wind zone. They must be able to self furle (shut down) so they do not self destruct if they over speed due to to much wind or to fast.

There is much left to be learned in this field..

But does smaller = lower output? You're assuming it's made out of materials you're apparently familiar with....what if it isn't?

 

[Billy_Bob]

If you ever wondered about micro climates under these monsters... This is how they disrupt them.. and why placing them to close makes them useless..

 

[Billy_Bob]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

Torque is your issue.. Wind hitting the turbine at X speed produces xx torque. That Torque is offset by magnets within the generator. By reducing the size you also reduce the output and need for torque.

The problem is three fold.

1. All wind turbines have rotation gears, offsetting magnetic fields within the generator, and the pressure on the individual blades is never constant and can vary widely. These conditions will always cause vibration.

Lighter is not always better as vibrations tear apart lighter steels and aluminum. Even by reducing the output (size of the gen set) you will not escape this.

2. Control systems require constant maintenance. If your not facing into the wind or 90 deg opposing (furled) you will get massive vibrations and wear on the main bearings. even in smaller versions of these units you can not escape this.

3. Reduced size means lower output and thus the need for more of them. Increasing the number of problems solves nothing..

There are many designs for wind turbines. They are designed for the average wind speed of your wind zone. They must be able to self furle (shut down) so they do not self destruct if they over speed due to to much wind or to fast.

There is much left to be learned in this field..

But does smaller = lower output? You're assuming it's made out of materials you're apparently familiar with....what if it isn't?

One. We would have to over come the vibrations or make them resistant in some way to make them last longer and reduce upkeep.

Two. The output, if it could be kept to near 50,000kw (much bigger than this and the magnets are to big to place into a gen set) would be interesting.

Three. the need for lubrication and control... how can we reduce the need for these and make the unit self sustaining?

This is a young industry that was pushed long before it was ready for prime time.. The environmental issues are ones that need to be addressed as well.. Bird kill, low hum vibrations and animal behavioral changes, etc...

 

[9aces]

If you ever wondered about micro climates under these monsters... This is how they disrupt them.. and why placing them to close makes them useless..

I looked at that. I watched America's Cup sailing and noted they made mention frequently of the wind shadow from the upwind boat disrupting the airflow.

You have a pretty darn good point about the disruptive nature of the airflow. Now I can see some positives for doing it this way, depending upon the strength of the prevailing winds affecting it. If not....modified flock of geese array would look more efficient to me from the airflow shown there.

 

[9aces]

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

Torque is your issue.. Wind hitting the turbine at X speed produces xx torque. That Torque is offset by magnets within the generator. By reducing the size you also reduce the output and need for torque.

The problem is three fold.

1. All wind turbines have rotation gears, offsetting magnetic fields within the generator, and the pressure on the individual blades is never constant and can vary widely. These conditions will always cause vibration.

Lighter is not always better as vibrations tear apart lighter steels and aluminum. Even by reducing the output (size of the gen set) you will not escape this.

2. Control systems require constant maintenance. If your not facing into the wind or 90 deg opposing (furled) you will get massive vibrations and wear on the main bearings. even in smaller versions of these units you can not escape this.

3. Reduced size means lower output and thus the need for more of them. Increasing the number of problems solves nothing..

There are many designs for wind turbines. They are designed for the average wind speed of your wind zone. They must be able to self furle (shut down) so they do not self destruct if they over speed due to to much wind or to fast.

There is much left to be learned in this field..

But does smaller = lower output? You're assuming it's made out of materials you're apparently familiar with....what if it isn't?

One. We would have to over come the vibrations or make them resistant in some way to make them last longer and reduce upkeep.

Two. The output, if it could be kept to near 50,000kw (much bigger than this and the magnets are to big to place into a gen set) would be interesting.

Three. the need for lubrication and control... how can we reduce the need for these and make the unit self sustaining?

This is a young industry that was pushed long before it was ready for prime time.. The environmental issues are ones that need to be addressed as well.. Bird kill, low hum vibrations and animal behavioral changes, etc...

Aerogel. If you haven't been following that development...I'd start if I were you.

 

[Billy_Bob]

This is a Windspire 10kw unit.. It doesn't kill birds and is much lighter than the big boys.. This requires no hydraulics and is self regulating even in 100mph winds. It has little air disruption unlike the big ones.. The bearings are similar to a car and are easily maintained and lubricated. This reduces wear on the gen set bearings as they are one in the same..

 

[elektra]

That is a picture of data from thin walled tubing, I analyze that looking for degradation. Stress Corrosion Cracking, Pitting, Fretting Wear, Loose parts abd Loose part Wear. It is easy but sometimes crazy not.

That is your job? Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

That you need to build them forever increasing the use of coal and oil.

Just imagine how great General Motors could be if only they could sell 10 cars to every person instead of 1.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Since 1988, too much travel.

So since I have an expert in structural matters here, and Old Rocks ran from the question. Suppose you could build a turbine half the size, with 10% of the weight. What do you think that would do to the inherent problems in the current turbine design?

Torque is your issue.. Wind hitting the turbine at X speed produces xx torque. That Torque is offset by magnets within the generator. By reducing the size you also reduce the output and need for torque.

The problem is three fold.

1. All wind turbines have rotation gears, offsetting magnetic fields within the generator, and the pressure on the individual blades is never constant and can vary widely. These conditions will always cause vibration.

Lighter is not always better as vibrations tear apart lighter steels and aluminum. Even by reducing the output (size of the gen set) you will not escape this.

2. Control systems require constant maintenance. If your not facing into the wind or 90 deg opposing (furled) you will get massive vibrations and wear on the main bearings. even in smaller versions of these units you can not escape this.

3. Reduced size means lower output and thus the need for more of them. Increasing the number of problems solves nothing..

There are many designs for wind turbines. They are designed for the average wind speed of your wind zone. They must be able to self furle (shut down) so they do not self destruct if they over speed due to to much wind or to fast.

There is much left to be learned in this field..

But does smaller = lower output? You're assuming it's made out of materials you're apparently familiar with....what if it isn't?

One. We would have to over come the vibrations or make them resistant in some way to make them last longer and reduce upkeep.

Two. The output, if it could be kept to near 50,000kw (much bigger than this and the magnets are to big to place into a gen set) would be interesting.

Three. the need for lubrication and control... how can we reduce the need for these and make the unit self sustaining?

This is a young industry that was pushed long before it was ready for prime time.. The environmental issues are ones that need to be addressed as well.. Bird kill, low hum vibrations and animal behavioral changes, etc...

Aerogel. If you haven't been following that development...I'd start if I were you.

HMMmmmmmmm

"First synthesized in 1931, aerogels were the result of a bet between two chemists. Knowing that jellies are mostly pectin gelled with water, they challenged each other to remove the water without shrinking the jelly. Now aerogels are among the least dense solids, possess compressive specific strength similar to aerospace grade graphite composite, and provide the smallest thermal conductivity for any solid."

Source

Interesting... if this is the case, then the potential for rapid improvements is possible..