Dirty, polluting, Wind Power

[elektra]

Crick, this is clean energy?

 

[Crick]

You need fuel to manufacture the wind turbines, the solar thermal, and the photovotaic, at that you must manufacture new ones continuously forever. Hardly do they qualify as to not needing "fuel".

The exact same statement may be made of any energy technology. And it has been demonstrated repeatedly here that the fuel used during manufacture is absolutely dwarfed by the fuel that will be consumed during the lifespan of such technology.

Further, all three require fuel to operate, like Ivanpah which a CSP thermal solar plant dependent on natural gas to keep the water hot. Wind power needs a constant source of power to operate, as in to run its computers and controls when there is no wind, that source of constant power comes from another fuel source, such as natural gas.

Wrong. Solar and wind do NOT require fuel to operate. They may require occasional augmentation but THEY do not consume fuel. Your preferred plant does absolutely nothing BUT burn fuel, day and night, 365 days a year. THAT is what we're trying to get away from.

Even plan old Solar requires fuel to operate, fuel to pump water to clean its panels.

Give us a fucking break. How about the fuel for the lawn mowers to keep the grass from shading the panels? How about the fuel for the golf carts the maintenance guys drive around? How about the fuel to charge the batteries of the portable drill drivers the crew uses to assemble the frames? You need to finally realize that the general public is not as ignorant as YOU are.

Operation and maintenance of wind and solar requires fuel, given the great distance involved, servicing Solar and Wind requires technicians to travel, using fuel, to service these monsters.

How far apart are America's natural gas and coal-fired power plants?

Wind itself requires oil for lubrication, hundreds of gallons per turbine, per year. Which is trucked to the remote facilities.

And not burned therefore not producing GHGs.

Renewable energy is fossil fuel dependent.

You are still a fucking idiot.

 

[elektra]

The exact same statement may be made of any energy technology. And it has been demonstrated repeatedly here that the fuel used during manufacture is absolutely dwarfed by the fuel that will be consumed during the lifespan of such technology.

Yet, that fuel in the manufacturing is a massive amount, more fuel will be used making wind and solar power than any other source of electricity. And in return, you get almost next to nothing.

A good question is, how many solar panels will it take to destroy nagasaki or hiroshima? How many wind turbines?

solar and wind are extremely weak, so weak, we must build and install them forever, how does building and installing wind and solar forever, prevent pollution?

 

[Crick]

Yet, that fuel in the manufacturing is a massive amount, more fuel will be used making wind and solar power than any other source of electricity. And in return, you get almost next to nothing.

And, of course, never any actual numbers from poster Elektra.

A good question is, how many solar panels will it take to destroy nagasaki or hiroshima? How many wind turbines?

No, that is not a good question. That is babble.

solar and wind are extremely weak, so weak, we must build and install them forever, how does building and installing wind and solar forever, prevent pollution?

If human energy consumption never stops growing, any technology would have to be forever expanded. Did you actually not realize that?

 

[elektra]

And, of course, never any actual numbers from poster Elektra.

If you know I am wrong, than that must mean, you know the numbers to disagree, so tell us the numbers. How much fossil fuels does it take to make a wind turbine or solar panel.

 

[Crick]

If you know I am wrong, than that must mean, you know the numbers to disagree, so tell us the numbers. How much fossil fuels does it take to make a wind turbine or solar panel.

It's your claim. It's your responsibility to show some numbers.

 

[elektra]

It's your claim. It's your responsibility to show some numbers.

you made the claim that I am wrong, you make the claim that you have hundreds of studies and data.

How much fossil fuels does it take to make a wind turbine or solar panel.

 

[Crick]

you made the claim that I am wrong, you make the claim that you have hundreds of studies and data.

How much fossil fuels does it take to make a wind turbine or solar panel.

The energy costs of manufacturing wind turbines are recouped in one to six months; turbines are financially profitable over their lifetimes

The manufacturing costs of wind turbines are recouped within three to six months of operation. While wind turbines are made of materials that can potentially harm the environment, their environmental impact is relatively small compared to fossil fuel facilities. Wind turbines leak 1000 times...

climatefeedback.org

Those repaid costs would include all the energy used.

 

[elektra]

The energy costs of manufacturing wind turbines are recouped in one to six months; turbines are financially profitable over their lifetimes

The manufacturing costs of wind turbines are recouped within three to six months of operation. While wind turbines are made of materials that can potentially harm the environment, their environmental impact is relatively small compared to fossil fuel facilities. Wind turbines leak 1000 times...

climatefeedback.org

Those repaid costs would include all the energy used.

so? you linked to an opinion piece you found with google that confirms your opinion. You did not dare to quote from it.

I see you have no knowledge and think that you can go to google, and simply post the link and proclaim yourself right.

How about some facts, I posted facts, how about facts, and not another opinion.

Maybe read and quote from the link. Otherwise we can all see you are too lazy to read and quote from your own links.

 

[Crick]

so? you linked to an opinion piece you found with google that confirms your opinion. You did not dare to quote from it.

What I posted was math performed on numbers from objective documents. I have shown that every one of your major claims concerning CO2 from the construction of wind turbines is complete bullshit.

I see you have no knowledge and think that you can go to google, and simply post the link and proclaim yourself right.

Where did you find the unidentified photograph of a refinery that so far is the only "link" supporting your arguments that you've provided. You seem to think that photograph proves that huge quantities of CO2 are released while producing lubricants. That is sheer, fucking nonsense.

How about some facts, I posted facts, how about facts, and not another opinion.

All we have had from all of your nearly identical threads has been YOUR opinion with no science, no bookkeeping, no numbers to back up SHIT.

Maybe read and quote from the link. Otherwise we can all see you are too lazy to read and quote from your own links.

I have never seen such an example of projection. You are just about beyond belief. You come in #2 on this forum behind EMH for posting nonsense.

 

[elektra]

What I posted was math performed on numbers from objective documents. I have shown that every one of your major claims concerning CO2 from the construction of wind turbines is complete bullshit.

Where did you find the unidentified photograph of a refinery that so far is the only "link" supporting your arguments that you've provided. You seem to think that photograph proves that huge quantities of CO2 are released while producing lubricants. That is sheer, fucking nonsense.

All we have had from all of your nearly identical threads has been YOUR opinion with no science, no bookkeeping, no numbers to back up SHIT.

I have never seen such an example of projection. You are just about beyond belief. You come in #2 on this forum behind EMH for posting nonsense.

you can be in denial all you like.

I provided fact on the use of fossil fuels, natural gas, coal, in the manufacturing of wind turbines. Me, and other, have shown countries that have wind turbines that have lost power, and suffered when the wind turbines do not work.

There can be no bigger a fool, than a person who somehow thinks building 340,000 wind turbines, and counting somehow is the future of electrical power.

Everywhere there are wind turbines, there is a shortage of power.

That is your solution for global warming, just to build, and not care if we still have no electricity.

 

[elektra]

All we have had from all of your nearly identical threads has been YOUR opinion with no science, no bookkeeping, no numbers to back up SHIT.

I posted numbers? You disagree? Can you or did you post numbers, no.

I linked to articles from industry showing the amounts of coal that has to be used to manufacture Wind Turbines, you ignore them.

I linked to industry articles showing the coal required to make cement. I have provided facts, I link to facts, but you ignore the facts.

All this bullshit from Crick, and all the other idiots, who somehow think that building the largest industrial project, and hence thee most expensive industrial project, somehow is done without heavy industry.

Crick, you dont know science, all you got is a google result that you think confirms your opinion.

And you say you are an engineer? What kind?

 

[Crick]

I posted numbers? You disagree? Can you or did you post numbers, no.

I linked to articles from industry showing the amounts of coal that has to be used to manufacture Wind Turbines, you ignore them.

I linked to industry articles showing the coal required to make cement. I have provided facts, I link to facts, but you ignore the facts.

All this bullshit from Crick, and all the other idiots, who somehow think that building the largest industrial project, and hence thee most expensive industrial project, somehow is done without heavy industry.

I used the numbers from YOUR bullshit sources (like STT) to show that the CO2 produced by the construction and operation of wind turbines is absolutely trivial. You keep ignoring that and claim I've done nothing. I have disproved every claim you've made on the topic.

Crick, you dont know science, all you got is a google result that you think confirms your opinion.

You're a better example of Dunning-Krueger than jc456. Astounding.

And you say you are an engineer? What kind?

I earned a BSc in Ocean Engineering in 1982 after a six year stint in the submarine service as a sonar tech.

 

[elektra]

I used the numbers from YOUR bullshit sources (like STT) to show that the CO2 produced by the construction and operation of wind turbines is absolutely trivial. You keep ignoring that and claim I've done nothing. I have disproved every claim you've made on the topic.

The only numbers in my article, are of the base?? Here, you claim those numbers were the entire construction and operation. You are either a liar, or so confused you are unable to comprehend what you read..

From my link and my article, nothng in, "Andy's rant" addresses anything but the concrete base and the rebar.

How Much CO2 Gets Emitted to Build a Wind Turbine?

The ONLY justification for wind power – the massive subsidies upon which it entirely depends (see our post here); spiralling power prices (see our post here); and the suffering caused to neighbours…

stopthesethings.com

So what’s the carbon foot print of a wind turbine with 45 tons of rebar & 481m3 of concrete?
Andy’s Rant
4 August 2014
ts carbon footprint is massive – try 241.85 tons of CO2.

 

[abu afak]

The Texas GOP’s War on Renewable Energy​

What’s behind the Legislature’s relentless campaign against Wind and Solar power, which are Saving Texans Billions?
June 2023 - Texas Monthly

Greg Roach doesn’t much care for the blinking red lights atop the ninety wind turbines just outside of town. They distract from the nightly blanket of stars that’s among the benefits of life in Olney, an agricultural crossroads about a two-hour drive northwest of Fort Worth. But, says the 67-year-old superintendent of the local school district, that’s a minor quibble.

Tax payments from the Trinity Hills Wind Farm have allowed Olney ISD to remodel the junior high and the high school and to build a vocational building for classes in welding and agriculture, all without raising the Tax rate. It’s been “an absolute Home Run fiscally,” Roach says.

And those Benefits have recently gotten a whole lot Bigger. Trinity Hills enjoyed an enormous tax break when it began operating, in 2012, but that decade-long arrangement has come to an end. The wind farm now numbers among the district’s largest taxpayers. “You are looking at around one million dollars in revenue,” Roach says, for a district with a total annual budget of about $12 million. “There is absolutely no doubt they are a big boost.” He expects the extra money will help the district purchase a new school bus and upgrade classroom technology.....
[.....]

The Texas GOP’s War on Renewable Energy

What’s behind the Legislature’s relentless campaign against wind and solar power, which are saving Texans billions?

www.texasmonthly.com

`

 

[elektra]

I used the numbers from YOUR bullshit sources (like STT)

Stop these things used the IPCC as a source. Crick, is the IPCC only right when you use the IPCC as a source?

Metal emission stats from page 25 from the 2006 IPCC Chapter 4 Metal Industry Emissions report.
Cement and concrete stats from page 6 & 7 from the 2012 NRMCA Concrete CO2 Fact Sheet.

Wind Turbines, crick, you are acting like wind turbines has shutdown Coal Power. Coal Power has grown, or been replaced with Natural gas.

Wind Turbines are simply profit for Wall St.

 

[Crick]

Stop these things used the IPCC as a source. Crick, is the IPCC only right when you use the IPCC as a source?

I repeat, I USED THE STT NUMBERS to show you're a fucking idiot. I'd say they were right as rain. Glad you like them.

Wind Turbines, crick, you are acting like wind turbines has shutdown Coal Power. Coal Power has grown, or been replaced with Natural gas.

Wind Turbines are simply profit for Wall St.

EIA projects that renewable generation will supply 44% of U.S. electricity by 2050

www.eia.gov

Red Flags for Natural Gas In New Sustainable Energy Report

Natural gas pushed out coal and upset the US energy apple cart between 2010 and 2019, but now the change-making shoe is on the clean tech foot.

cleantechnica.com

Renewable Electricity Levelized Cost Of Energy Already Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels, And Prices Keep Plunging

<p>Renewable electricity’s levelized cost of energy became the cheapest source of new U.S. power generation in 2017, and building new wind is often cheaper than running existing coal. As renewable energy costs continue their relentless decline, fossil fuels continue to fall further from...

energyinnovation.org

 

[elektra]

I repeat, I USED THE STT NUMBERS to show you're a fucking idiot.

And I repeat, that article only addressed the base, and nothing else. But you want to cling onto it as if it somehow a victory.

Yet, wind turbines are being manufactured right now, and will be forever, using coal, oil, balsa wood from the Amazon rain forest.

How does that endless manufacturing of the biggest things in the world lessen CO2 in the atmosphere?

 

[Crick]

And I repeat, that article only addressed the base, and nothing else. But you want to cling onto it as if it somehow a victory.

Yet, wind turbines are being manufactured right now, and will be forever, using coal, oil, balsa wood from the Amazon rain forest.

How does that endless manufacturing of the biggest things in the world lessen CO2 in the atmosphere?

I have shown you how several times now. You were as dumb as a rock to begin with but your repeated refusal to accept facts right in front of your face has crossed the line. I'm done wasting my time with you. Go be an idiot on your own dime.

 

[elektra]

I have shown you how several times now. You were as dumb as a rock to begin with but your repeated refusal to accept facts right in front of your face has crossed the line. I'm done wasting my time with you. Go be an idiot on your own dime.

It is a simple question, how does endless record setting manufacturing by refineries, by coal mines, by heavy industry, manufacturing gigantic wind turbines night and day forever stop the pollution you are worried about.

And I repeat, that article only addressed the base, and nothing else. But you want to cling onto it as if it somehow a victory.

Yet, wind turbines are being manufactured right now, and will be forever, using coal, oil, balsa wood from the Amazon rain forest.

How does that endless manufacturing of the biggest things in the world lessen CO2 in the atmosphere?