Did Jesus Wrestle With The Flesh and Spirit?

[norwegen]

It is more than possible that Jesus's human body did not resurrect.
Remember when he came back, none of the disciples recognized him. The Christian Bible does not clarify why that was.

On the contrary, it does. Jesus had begun to appear in a different form (Mk 16:12).

Mary Magdalene who was very close to Jesus, thought he was a gardener and had moved the body. And it wasn't until he spoke to her and showed her it was him.
These people traveled with Jesus for years... and no one recognized him?? yeah

Yea. Paul didn't even recognize him as a man, but rather as a haze of light.

Before long, Christ was not visible to the naked eye at all, having become the church.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

That's on them for not seeking what the authors intended to convey. Like I said before, if you come away thinking the authors intended to make God come off as evil and petty and cruel, then you have misread the authors intent and come away with not even trying to find the author's intent. Read the poems. Read the songs.

What is this intent thing you speak of?
What intent should one derive from God telling his followers to kill every living soul of their enemy in his name, other than just that?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

On the contrary, it does. Jesus had begun to appear in a different form (Mk 16:12).

Yea. Paul didn't even recognize him as a man, but rather as a haze of light.

Before long, Christ was not visible to the naked eye at all, having become the church.

That is what I was saying. It is believed by most Christians that when Jesus resurrected, he was still in the same body.
Gnostic teachings is that he was already of the spirit, and did not look the same. The disciples were confused, and Thomas asked to see the wounds. And Jesus made the wounds appear...which marveled them and they came to know that this was Jesus.
Mary Magdalene didn't even recognize him... the explanation for this is pretty simple. He was no longer in the old body he possessed. Thus signifying that the earthly sins of man are gone.

 

[Clyde 154]

When He was tempted in the desert by Satan? Even though He never actually sinned though.

Jesus was tempted just like every other man. "In asmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He (Jesus) Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is the devil....Therefore in all things He had to make like His brethren........" -- Hebrews 2:14, 7-18

Being in the flesh (The Son of Man), Jesus faced temptations just like every person, "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." -- Heb. 4:15

Sin is the breaking of God's law (1 John 3:4). The potential for sin is always there. Temptation is the enticement to break God's law (James 1:13-16). You cannot be tempted by something that you are not capable of doing, Jesus had the choice to break God's law but constantly chose not to sin but to do the will of His Father (God.....i.e, as the Son of God).....unlike the rest of us who are tempted and often are subdued by sins enticements. His physical life while on earth demonstrates that mortal man is capable of living a sin free life. And by not sinning He became the only "PERFECT" sacrificial lamb of God in order to free mankind from the bondage and wages of sin......eternal death of both the spirit/soul and flesh, permanently separated from God. (1 Peter 1:18-19).

As explained with no ambiguity whatsoever, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross." -- Phil. 2:5-8.

"For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." -- 1 Tim. 2-5

"But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep (dead). For since by man came death (The sin of Adam), by Man (Christ Jesus) also came the resurrection of the dead." -- 1 Cor. 15:20-21

 

[Wyatt earp]

If we did not have "free will" we would be robots...... God wants us to love him of our own volition.

So you saying God really is not that powerful and already knows what's going to happen?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I see it the other way around. It is because we have free will that we sin. If we didn't sin we would be doing the will of the Father and would technically NOT have free will. It's complicated.

We only sin because of the law (that's what Paul says) no law, no sin

 

[Otis Mayfield]

Jesus was tempted just like every other man. "In asmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He (Jesus) Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is the devil....Therefore in all things He had to make like His brethren........" -- Hebrews 2:14, 7-18

Being in the flesh (The Son of Man), Jesus faced temptations just like every person, "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." -- Heb. 4:15

Sin is the breaking of God's law (1 John 3:4). The potential for sin is always there. Temptation is the enticement to break God's law (James 1:13-16). You cannot be tempted by something that you are not capable of doing, Jesus had the choice to break God's law but constantly chose not to sin but to do the will of His Father (God.....i.e, as the Son of God).....unlike the rest of us who are tempted and often are subdued by sins enticements. His physical life while on earth demonstrates that mortal man is capable of living a sin free life. And by not sinning He became the only "PERFECT" sacrificial lamb of God in order to free mankind from the bondage and wages of sin......eternal death of both the spirit/soul and flesh, permanently separated from God. (1 Peter 1:18-19).

As explained with no ambiguity whatsoever, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross." -- Phil. 2:5-8.

"For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." -- 1 Tim. 2-5

"But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep (dead). For since by man came death (The sin of Adam), by Man (Christ Jesus) also came the resurrection of the dead." -- 1 Cor. 15:20-21

Okay, that makes sense.

 

[norwegen]

That is what I was saying. It is believed by most Christians that when Jesus resurrected, he was still in the same body.
Gnostic teachings is that he was already of the spirit, and did not look the same. The disciples were confused, and Thomas asked to see the wounds. And Jesus made the wounds appear...which marveled them and they came to know that this was Jesus.
Mary Magdalene didn't even recognize him... the explanation for this is pretty simple. He was no longer in the old body he possessed. Thus signifying that the earthly sins of man are gone.

It was his body that resurrected and transformed over 40 days into the Church.

He was the rock. "Upon this rock," he told Peter (upon himself), "I will build my church."

That's exactly what he did.

So, he always was spirit, I suppose, which makes a virgin birth more believable.

ETA: not that the church is built exclusively on Jesus. He's addressing Peter, after all. But he is the cornerstone of the church (Eph 2:20).

 

[ding]

What is this intent thing you speak of?
What intent should one derive from God telling his followers to kill every living soul of their enemy in his name, other than just that?

God didn't write the bible. Men did. Many different men, many different authors. The intent I speak of is the message or meaning the author intended to convey. That you could conclude that God is evil, uncaring and cruel is diametrically opposite what the authors intended. So you never really understood what the authors intended for the reader to understand.

 

[ding]

We only sin because of the law (that's what Paul says) no law, no sin

Is that really what Paul said? Does that seem logical to you?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

God didn't write the bible. Men did. Many different men, many different authors. The intent I speak of is the message or meaning the author intended to convey. That you could conclude that God is evil, uncaring and cruel is diametrically opposite what the authors intended. So you never really understood what the authors intended for the reader to understand.

Nay. I don't care what an author intended.
Telling a story where "The God of love" instructs his followers to commit mass murder, and specifically instructs them to kill the children also is not loving. Period. No "intent" needed.
Now, if you are saying that the OT is just a collection of fictional stories, then they had a very strange way of showing what love is.

 

[ding]

Nay. I don't care what an author intended.
Telling a story where "The God of love" instructs his followers to commit mass murder, and specifically instructs them to kill the children also is not loving. Period. No "intent" needed.
Now, if you are saying that the OT is just a collection of fictional stories, then they had a very strange way of showing what love is.

The whole point of reading anything is to understand the meaning of what was written.

Allegorical and fictional are not the same thing, so no, I'm not saying fictional.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The whole point of reading anything is to understand the meaning of what was written.

Allegorical and fictional are not the same thing, so no, I'm not saying fictional.

OK fine, do you or do you not believe that God instructed his followers to murder whole cities, including small children?
Or do you believe that it is just a fictional story?

 

[ding]

OK fine, do you or do you not believe that God instructed his followers to murder whole cities, including small children?
Or do you believe that it is just a fictional story?

I do not believe that God instructed his followers to murder whole cities, including small children. It was explained in the video I posted that you never watched.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Is that really what Paul said? Does that seem logical to you?

That's what he said, he wouldn't know what sin is if it wasn't for the law



What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Romans 7:7

 

[ding]

That's what he said, he wouldn't know what sin is if it wasn't for the law



What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Romans 7:7

That's a little different than what you said earlier. To say it another way... how can someone know a line is crooked is if he doesn't have an idea of what a straight line is. The thing is the laws are written into the hearts of men. So we do have an idea of what a straight line is without ever having to be told what a straight line is. Right and wrong are logical. Right and wrong are not arbitrary. The distinction between right and wrong is based upon good reasons.

Anyone who has ever been wronged knows the difference between right and wrong. I guarantee that anyone who was a forced slave knows that forced slavery is wrong. They didn't need to be told.

 

[Bonzi]

So you saying God really is not that powerful and already knows what's going to happen?

I don't know how God operates.... I'd be rich if I did!

 

[Wyatt earp]

I don't know how God operates.... I'd be rich if I did!

Me either

 

[Wyatt earp]

I don't know how God operates.... I'd be rich if I did!

FYI

Isaiah 45:9-10 CEV​

Israel, you have no right to argue with your Creator. You are merely a clay pot shaped by a potter. The clay doesn't ask, “Why did you make me this way? Where are the handles?” Children don't have the right to demand of their parents, “What have you done to make us what we are?”

 

[Wyatt earp]

That's a little different than what you said earlier. To say it another way... how can someone know a line is crooked is if he doesn't have an idea of what a straight line is. The thing is the laws are written into the hearts of men. So we do have an idea of what a straight line is without ever having to be told what a straight line is. Right and wrong are logical. Right and wrong are not arbitrary. The distinction between right and wrong is based upon good reasons.

Anyone who has ever been wronged knows the difference between right and wrong. I guarantee that anyone who was a forced slave knows that forced slavery is wrong. They didn't need to be told.

Well thought out post, thanks