Did Jesus Wrestle With The Flesh and Spirit?

[Road Runner]

When He was tempted in the desert by Satan? Even though He never actually sinned though.

 

[RodISHI]

Yes.

 

[Donald H]

Respectfully, in accordance with this section of the forum:

Was Satan and Jesus's father not the same person?
I'm especially interested in how that is to be interpreted?

If Jesus wrestled with the flesh and spirit, or in fact his father needed to test him, would that indicate that Jesus's reaction was questionable?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Respectfully, in accordance with this section of the forum:

Was Satan and Jesus's father not the same person?
I'm especially interested in how that is to be interpreted?

Say what?
Not sure where that is coming from, but I am unaware of a single interpretation or religion that believes Satan and God are the same entity.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

Watch "The Last Temptation of Christ."

It doesn't follow the modern Bible. It's based on one of the older Bibles that the Church decided wasn't very accurate.

But it's still worth a watch.

But my hunch is that since Jesus == God, he was never tempted.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Watch "The Last Temptation of Christ."

It doesn't follow the modern Bible. It's based on one of the older Bibles that the Church decided wasn't very accurate.

But it's still worth a watch.

Do tell.
What is a "modern Bible" and what is an "older Bible"

 

[Donald H]

Watch "The Last Temptation of Christ."

It doesn't follow the modern Bible. It's based on one of the older Bibles that the Church decided wasn't very accurate.

But it's still worth a watch.

But my hunch is that since Jesus == God, he was never tempted.

Is the belief that Satan and God are the same, promoted in that movie and some earlier bibles? Is that what you're saying?

God created Satan, supposedly in his own image?

 

[Donald H]

Say what?
Not sure where that is coming from, but I am unaware of a single interpretation or religion that believes Satan and God are the same entity.

I'm no expert but I think that Otis refers to a possible answer.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Is the belief that Satan and God are the same, promoted in that movie and some earlier bibles? Is that what you're saying?

God created Satan, supposedly in his own image?

Depends on interpretation. And what religion.
A pretty sound argument is the God of Creation was not a good God. But a corrupt self serving God.
And Satan is not evil, but has animosity towards mankind because he believes that mankind, a creation born of selfish corruption is inherently bad. In that belief, Satan is one of the high Gods, who disagrees with the Ultimate God that, via the New Testament, gave grace to mankind and accepted responsibility for them. The Ultimate God, who did not create us, did away with the ways of the God of Creation and gave mankind a pathway to join them after our earthly death.

 

[Donald H]

Depends on interpretation. And what religion.
A pretty sound argument is the God of Creation was not a good God. But a corrupt self serving God.
And Satan is not evil, but has animosity towards mankind because he believes that mankind, a creation born of selfish corruption is inherently bad. In that belief, Satan is one of the high Gods, who disagrees with the Ultimate God that, via the New Testament, gave grace to mankind and accepted responsibility for them. The Ultimate God, who did not create us, did away with the ways of the God of Creation and gave mankind a pathway to join them after our earthly death.

This might be helpful: Jesus and Satan Are the Same Person

 

[Road Runner]

Respectfully, in accordance with this section of the forum:

Was Satan and Jesus's father not the same person?
I'm especially interested in how that is to be interpreted?

If Jesus wrestled with the flesh and spirit, or in fact his father needed to test him, would that indicate that Jesus's reaction was questionable?

God created Satan, but He didn't create Jesus as all He is is God in human flesh. Even if He had created Jesus it wouldn't change the fact that both Jesus and Satan still had free will. I do believe since Jesus was also all human He could have sinned if He had chosen to, (otherwise how could He have been tempted to?) but He didn't. Satan also had free will and he chose to rebel against odd and become evil. So in the end, they both had free choices to either rebel or choose to walk in the path of righteousness.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

This might be helpful: Jesus and Satan Are the Same Person

That is one belief system that is based solely on opinion.
The Gnostic books are a good deal older than the Christian Bible, both share some of the same books.
The Gnostic writing of aeons -> The Pleroma and the Aeons - Gnosticism Explained
Places Satan as a high God, but a subordinate to the Ultimate God. In that, Satan is not evil, but absolutely malignant to mankind believing, since they were created by a lesser, corrupt God - that mankind is inherently inferior and not worthy of grace. And therefore seeks to undermine that grace and prove that we are, as he says, inherently selfish and evil.
The Ultimate God also knows this. But chose to provide humans a pathway to join them after death through his grace.

 

[Road Runner]

How can anybody believe that Jesus and Satan are the same person when they are complete opposites?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

How can anybody believe that Jesus and Satan are the same person when they are complete opposites?

They are opposites in our mind.
See my post above yours.

 

[Road Runner]

They are opposites in our mind.
See my post above yours.

I saw it, I just didn't understand what you were getting at was all.

 

[Donald H]

Places Satan as a high God, but a subordinate to the Ultimate God. In that, Satan is not evil, but absolutely malignant to mankind believing, since they were created by a lesser, corrupt God -e.

It seems to me that you're summoning up a little too many gods, while popular opinion is that you're supposed to only believe in 'one' god.
So now some lesser god created Satan?

From my POV as an atheist, it's not really important to me how many gods you believe in. I'm obviously of the opinion that none of them exist.

Supposing that God and Satan aren't the same person/entity/imaginary characters, poses many problems for Christian beliefs IMO.

 

[Donald H]

That is one belief system that is based solely on opinion.
The Gnostic books are a good deal older than the Christian Bible, both share some of the same books.
The Gnostic writing of aeons -> The Pleroma and the Aeons - Gnosticism Explained
Places Satan as a high God, but a subordinate to the Ultimate God. In that, Satan is not evil, but absolutely malignant to mankind believing, since they were created by a lesser, corrupt God - that mankind is inherently inferior and not worthy of grace. And therefore seeks to undermine that grace and prove that we are, as he says, inherently selfish and evil.
The Ultimate God also knows this. But chose to provide humans a pathway to join them after death through his grace.

Sorry but there are just too many wild interpretations out there for me to buy into any one of them.
For instance, jesus had to be created by the god because no man did Mary.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I saw it, I just didn't understand what you were getting at was all.

I was raised in a religious household. (Church of Christ)
As young as 10 or so I started having so many problems with what we were taught and the Bible. So little made sense, and so much was so highly contradictory. I just couldn't wrap my brain around it.
And by 17 I fell away from the church. After I left home, I never went back.
Awhile back I ran across a lecture on Gnosticism. Holy hell. I watched the whole series of lectures and was astounded.
It filled so many holes, and answered so many question I had. It made sense of the Bible. Especially the obvious complete opposites of the "God of Old Testament" and the "God of the New Testament". That was a major struggle for me in my youth.
How could a God so demanding who repeatedly and tortuously placed man in such impossible situations, who, by his own design, made especially weak in the very things he demanded the most! How is this a "God of Love"??
And then came Gnostic teachings, that believes the God of Creation is, indeed, not the same God of the New Testament.
The God of New Testament is the Ultimate God. The true God. And the God of creation is a lower God, known for his selfishness and corruption who created us in his own way.
The Ultimate God, seeing what the low God did, gave mankind grace to escape our condition.
Satan is a high God who disagrees with the Ultimate God. And believes we should be destroyed, not saved. And seeks to undermine the True God's grace. Not due to him being evil, but rather believing we are not worthy.

 

[ding]

I was raised in a religious household. (Church of Christ)
As young as 10 or so I started having so many problems with what we were taught and the Bible. So little made sense, and so much was so highly contradictory. I just couldn't wrap my brain around it.
And by 17 I fell away from the church. After I left home, I never went back.
Awhile back I ran across a lecture on Gnosticism. Holy hell. I watched the whole series of lectures and was astounded.
It filled so many holes, and answered so many question I had. It made sense of the Bible. Especially the obvious complete opposites of the "God of Old Testament" and the "God of the New Testament". That was a major struggle for me in my youth.
How could a God so demanding who repeatedly and tortuously placed man in such impossible situations, who, by his own design, made especially weak in the very things he demanded the most! How is this a "God of Love"??
And then came Gnostic teachings, that believes the God of Creation is, indeed, not the same God of the New Testament.
The God of New Testament is the Ultimate God. The true God. And the God of creation is a lower God, known for his selfishness and corruption who created us in his own way.
The Ultimate God, seeing what the low God did, gave mankind grace to escape our condition.
Satan is a high God who disagrees with the Ultimate God. And believes we should be destroyed, not saved. And seeks to undermine the True God's grace. Not due to him being evil, but rather believing we are not worthy.

The Gnostic belief in two Gods seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The Gnostic belief in two Gods seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

It seems unnecessarily hard to believe that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God are the same.
The two descriptions are 100% complete opposites in every way. They don't even slightly resemble each other.