Zone1 Did Jesus come to save the Jews?

[Woodznutz]

Or was he only sent to the descendants of the other tribes of Israel?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi. His interpretation of some aspects of the Torah were clearly inaccurate but I've never viewed him in a negative light. In fact, he has been a most important figure for all the Abrahamic religions.

During his time he upset too many people. He clearly didn't deserve to die and if he were living in a free country today he would not have been. The Romans certainly didn't allow much dissention did they?

 

[mudwhistle]

Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi. His interpretation of some aspects of the Torah were clearly inaccurate but I've never viewed him in a negative light. In fact, he has been a most important figure for all the Abrahamic religions.

During his time he upset too many people. He clearly didn't deserve to die and if he were living in a free country today he would not have been. The Romans certainly didn't allow much dissention did they?

Jesus was put on Earth to alter the path of the Jewish faith.
He was as much an attack on Jewish culture as he was an attack on all sin and ungodliness.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Jesus was put on Earth to alter the path of the Jewish faith.
He was as much an attack on Jewish culture as he was an attack on all sin and ungodliness.

I disagree. I know I'm in the minority but before I studied the Old Testament and Talmud I studied the New Testament.

I always viewed him as a progressive Jew who tried to read deeper into text to the point of betraying many of its tenets. The witnesses to the miracles he apparently performed lead to his position in history.

I wish society would have been more reasonable and objective and then maybe the Catholic church wouldnt have been so antisemitic and Jews and Christians might have gotten along better over the centuries.

Jews and Christian authorities alike are responsible for this hatred while the Romans were given a free pass relatively speaking.

 

[mudwhistle]

I disagree. I know I'm in the minority but before I studied the Old Testament and Talmud I studied the New Testament.

I always viewed him as a progressive Jew who tried to read deeper into text to the point of betraying many of its tenets. The witnesses to the miracles he apparently performed lead to his position in history.

I wish society would have been more reasonable and objective and then maybe the Catholic church wouldnt have been so antisemitic and Jews and Christians might have gotten along better over the centuries.

Jews and Christian authorities alike are responsible for this hatred while the Romans were given a free pass relatively speaking.

Well, if the Holy Ghost is really talking to you, maybe you're correct.

But Jesus was just as much a problem for the Jewish establishment as he was for the Romans.

Maybe even more so.

 

[Woodznutz]

Jesus was put on Earth to alter the path of the Jewish faith.

If true he failed miserably. However, he did "build (his) church" among the Gentiles (the other Israelites) which was his commission from his Father.

Regarding the Jews, Jesus came to be a 'stumbling stone' for them to trip over.

 

[mudwhistle]

If true he failed miserably. However, he did "build (his) church" among the Gentiles (the other Israelites).

Uh.....sorry....all of his Disciples were Jewish.
You start small and work to increase your numbers.
Till the end his Jewish faith was still important to him.

 

[Woodznutz]

I disagree. I know I'm in the minority but before I studied the Old Testament and Talmud I studied the New Testament.

I always viewed him as a progressive Jew who tried to read deeper into text to the point of betraying many of its tenets. The witnesses to the miracles he apparently performed lead to his position in history.

I wish society would have been more reasonable and objective and then maybe the Catholic church wouldnt have been so antisemitic and Jews and Christians might have gotten along better over the centuries.

Jews and Christian authorities alike are responsible for this hatred while the Romans were given a free pass relatively speaking.

Jews are generally blithely unaware of how they attract negative feelings of others upon themselves. Part of God's curse I think.

 

[Foxfyre]

Or was he only sent to the descendants of the other tribes of Israel?

Yes. Jesus was Immanuel "God with us" on a mission to preach and demonstrate salvation to the Jews. And also to the Gentiles, i.e. all who had eyes to see and ears to hear the promise of eternal life that he offered.

 

[Foxfyre]

Jews are generally blithely unaware of how they attract negative feelings of others upon themselves. Part of God's curse I think.

And some pretend that it is not irrational prejudice/bigotry/hatred that drives their negative feelings about Jews.

 

[onefour1]

Jesus was sent to save all who are willing to hear his voice and follow Him.

 

[Woodznutz]

And some pretend that it is not irrational prejudice/bigotry/hatred that drives their negative feelings about Jews.

It will be interesting to learn just how this curse against the Jews was to be carried out.

Ezekiel 5

13 Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them.
14 Moreover I will make thee waste, and a reproach among the nations that are round about thee, in the sight of all that pass by.
15 So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment unto the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the LORD have spoken it.

Was the Holocaust God's fury against the Jews.

Outline of Biblical Usage: fury

1. heat, rage, hot displeasure, indignation, anger, wrath, poison, bottles
   
   1. heat
      
      1. fever
      2. venom, poison (fig.)
   2. burning anger, rage

 

[Woodznutz]

Yes. Jesus was Immanuel "God with us" on a mission to preach and demonstrate salvation to the Jews. And also to the Gentiles, i.e. all who had eyes to see and ears to hear the promise of eternal life that he offered.

He said he was sent only to the other tribal descendants, not the Jews. He attracted a few Jews, but most wanted him dead.

 

[jwoodie]

Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophesy, but the Jewish authorities rejected him. As a result, the Second Temple was destroyed and the second diaspora occurred. It seems as if Judaism has been in a state of arrested development ever since. Maybe Zionism is the new Messiah?

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi.

really ... made obvious by the closing scene of the 1st century events.

funny how family ties disappear when found convenient by desert dwellers ...

the opening scene of the 1st century events are mary and joseph who are chosen by the heavens as exemplars for their willingness to defy judaism, moses and their false commandments to live without fear for loves sake and nothing more - the heavens sent the magi, wise men who protected them that early time sword in hand against the terrors of judaism if necessary.

jesus is never a jew and certainly not a rabbi - they found their similar love mary magdalene the four then being heavenly exemplars inseparable by their fortitude - unaffected by the false commandments of judaism, or the hereditary idolatry that makes that religion and the future desert bibles - religions of apartheid.

those events are the refutation of judaism as a heavenly religion of the everlasting - as taught, liberation theology, self determination during that time and jesus as the means for the true path to free ones spirit to live past their physical limits.

the goal set by the heavens to triumph good vs evil to acquire judgement is all the heavens have ever required.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi. His interpretation of some aspects of the Torah were clearly inaccurate but I've never viewed him in a negative light. In fact, he has been a most important figure for all the Abrahamic religions.

During his time he upset too many people. He clearly didn't deserve to die and if he were living in a free country today he would not have been. The Romans certainly didn't allow much dissention did they?

Like Anne Frank, Jesus Pushed Cowardly Escapism

The Romans didn't allow failure. Jesus was their agent, sent to convert the Jews to pacifism and to care only about the afterlife, not their oppression under Roman rule in this life. What part of "Render Unto Caesar" don't you understand?

 

[Foxfyre]

Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophesy, but the Jewish authorities rejected him. As a result, the Second Temple was destroyed and the second diaspora occurred. It seems as if Judaism has been in a state of arrested development ever since. Maybe Zionism is the new Messiah?

Arrested development? The Jewish people constitute .4% of the world population but have made tremendous contributions to civilization in research, science, inventions, and other accomplishments. They hold a hugely disproportionate number of Nobel prizes. No other people with their very impressive track record would be considered to be in 'arrested development.'

 

[The Irish Ram]

If true he failed miserably. However, he did "build (his) church" among the Gentiles (the other Israelites) which was his commission from his Father.

Regarding the Jews, Jesus came to be a 'stumbling stone' for them to trip over.

Jesus came to fulfill the Law for the Jews, and did so, even though the Jews missed the hour of His visitation.

Luke 19:44 "They will level you to the ground, you and your children within you. They will not leave in you one stone on another, all because you did not recognize the time of your visitation".

The church that Jesus referred to when He called Peter the rock that He would build His church on, was the church that Peter started. It was in Jerusalem, and converted Jews to Jesus. He converted 3,000 on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:41-47 Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day—about 3,000 in all.
Peter preached in his church for 15 years until his arrest. He escaped and went to Rome. He and Paul were killed there not long after. That was about 300 years before the Catholic Church was started.

The Gentiles, whom Jesus referred to as dogs, were grafted into the Jewish line because of the faith a Gentile woman showed:

Mark 7:26-27 “He replied, 'It is not right to take the children's bread [the favor being applied to the house of Israel] and toss it to their dogs. < Gentiles. But she replied:

Matthew 15:26-28 But she said, Yea, Lord: for even the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it done unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was healed from that hour.

 

[Woodznutz]

Uh.....sorry....all of his Disciples were Jewish.
You start small and work to increase your numbers.
Till the end his Jewish faith was still important to him.

By the fourth century Jewish converts were gone. The true church, made up of Gentiles, went into hiding.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Uh.....sorry....all of his Disciples were Jewish.
You start small and work to increase your numbers.
Till the end his Jewish faith was still important to him.

When the Church Became Its Own Hierarchy, They Had to Blame the Jews for the Crucifixion

Jesus went off-message to become a revolutionary. Like most of that ilk, he wanted to overthrow the High Priests to become some infallible and omnipotent Jewish pope. Same with St. Paul, except over an entirely new religion.

The High Priests collaborated with the Romans. When Jesus attacked the Hebrew Hierarchy, they appealed to their Roman friends to get rid of him.