Did a historical Jesus exist?

[pacer]

No it doesn't mean that.
1.to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2.to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen1.of events
3.to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage1.of men appearing in public
4.to be made, finished1.of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5.to become, be made
He existed from the beginning.

You ARE the words you speak. All of the above descriptions speak of the word 'becoming'. Spoken words become through the process of thought, reason, speech, etc., as I pointed out above. 'And the word became flesh' is the same as saying 'the word became of the flesh' (was spoken).

 

[Chuckt]

No it doesn't mean that.
1.to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2.to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen1.of events
3.to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage1.of men appearing in public
4.to be made, finished1.of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5.to become, be made
He existed from the beginning.

You ARE the words you speak. All of the above descriptions speak of the word 'becoming'. Spoken words become through the process of thought, reason, speech, etc., as I pointed out above. 'And the word became flesh' is the same as saying 'the word became of the flesh' (was spoken).

He already existed though.

 

[turzovka]

It is impossible that Jesus or any human being ever was God or ever became God either before, during or after their human existence.

No. But it is impossible for me to take your words as the definitive word on the subject, superseding those of great saints like Catherine of Siena, St. John Vianney, Padre Pio and the like. You really are over your head when you make such declarations, IMO.

I would suggest that you consider that the words of your so called great saints who worshipped a trinity in the form of lifeless man made material object and ate it for spiritual life may not be very rational.

Is it possible for you to take the words of Jesus as the definitive word on the subject superseding even such impressive thinkers and heroes of the church?



"but go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and their Father; my God and their God." John 17:20


By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as or claimed to be God or a part of any trinity.


Who is in over their head?



.

Right. What choice does one like you have but to ignore the lives, words and manifestations of these saints? Just hang on to your own personal interpretation of one verse (John 17:20) as your proof the Catholic Church and the saints are all full of baloney.

No doubt God would choose to confuse all those who thought they were Christians for 1500 years until his prized pupil came along. And even then, Luther was full of it wasn’t he? Because he believed in purgatory and many other Catholic doctrines. No, now we have to wait for 21st century “enlightened” novices to tell us we are all wasting our time. Actually, I do not understand your objectives at all?

 

[pacer]

He already existed though.

I do not understand how that correlates to what I am saying regarding the phrase, 'the word became flesh'. Spoken words are made up of units of sound called phonemes. When Jesus spoke, the word became of his flesh (the words came from his mouth).

 

[Chuckt]

He already existed though.

I do not understand how that correlates to what I am saying regarding the phrase, 'the word became flesh'. Spoken words are made up of units of sound called phonemes. When Jesus spoke, the word became of his flesh (the words came from his mouth).

There is no evidence that He spoke.

 

[pacer]

He already existed though.

I do not understand how that correlates to what I am saying regarding the phrase, 'the word became flesh'. Spoken words are made up of units of sound called phonemes. When Jesus spoke, the word became of his flesh (the words came from his mouth).

There is no evidence that He spoke.

This is silly. Of course, he spoke.

 

[Chuckt]

I do not understand how that correlates to what I am saying regarding the phrase, 'the word became flesh'. Spoken words are made up of units of sound called phonemes. When Jesus spoke, the word became of his flesh (the words came from his mouth).

There is no evidence that He spoke.

This is silly. Of course, he spoke.

I wish to leave the board on good terms because there is nothing credible here that I should spend my time on.

 

[pacer]

Perhaps the following will lend some credibility to what I am saying:

Jesus made the distinction John 3:6, that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.’

According to this distinction, the act of producing thoughts and interpreting and representing is born of the flesh and therefore IS flesh.

 

[Chuckt]

Perhaps the following will lend some credibility to what I am saying:

Jesus made the distinction John 3:6, that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.’

According to this distinction, the act of producing thoughts and interpreting and representing is born of the flesh and therefore IS flesh.

Nope.

 

[koshergrl]

Pacer, you have no credibility. You have admitted you don't believe he existed anyway, so what is your point?

 

[koshergrl]

He already existed though.

I do not understand how that correlates to what I am saying regarding the phrase, 'the word became flesh'. Spoken words are made up of units of sound called phonemes. When Jesus spoke, the word became of his flesh (the words came from his mouth).

There is no evidence that He spoke.

"The Word" is a name for Christ. The Word became flesh = Jesus became human.

 

[pacer]

Christ means Messiah the Messenger and the message (the word) became flesh (of the flesh), spoken

 

[hobelim]

Christ means Messiah the Messenger and the message (the word) became flesh (of the flesh), spoken

The word from God became the teaching, flesh, of Jesus, given for the life of the world.


Follow the progression.

"How can you fail to see that I was not speaking about bread? Be on your guard, I said, against the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Then they understood: they were to be on their guard, not against bakers bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Matthew 16:11,12

Here bread is clearly identified as a metaphor for teaching.

Then in John 6:30-51, Jesus says that he is bread that came down from heaven. I am the bread of life, bread which a man may eat and never die, etc. and concludes that this bread that came from God like manna from heaven, that has already been identified as teaching is his own flesh.


"Moreover, the bread(teaching) which I shall give is my own flesh; I give it for the life of the world."


Hence bread from heaven (the Word of God), teaching, became flesh.

Its not at all about God becoming Jesus.

To eat the flesh of Jesus is to receive the revelation that Jesus received from God about the hidden subjects concealed by the figurative nature of the words in divine law. To drink his blood is to act accordingly.


Its about revealing the subject of kosher law where it says the flesh of one type of human creature or another can be eaten for good mental health and a blessed life and what cannot be eaten without defiling and contaminating the mind and confining it to the realm of the netherworld.

Once a person loses their mind with what can they get it back? I'm sure you have had enough conversations with some people here to understand that the danger is real and far more frightening than any fairy tale.......

 

[pacer]

Were his teachings not spoken? I believe we may be saying the same thing in other words.

 

[pacer]

I should say were his teachings not the spoken 'word'.

 

[hobelim]

Were his teachings not spoken? I believe we may be saying the same thing in other words.

Yes, I just included the subject of the teaching from God that was spoken

 

[pacer]

Seems like a very interesting book.

The core thesis of Zealot is that the “real” Jesus of Nazareth was an illiterate peasant from the Galilee who zealously, indeed monomaniacally, aspired to depose the Roman governor of Palestine and become the King of Israel.

Jewish Review of Books » What Jesus Wasn?t: Zealot

 

[hobelim]

No. But it is impossible for me to take your words as the definitive word on the subject, superseding those of great saints like Catherine of Siena, St. John Vianney, Padre Pio and the like. You really are over your head when you make such declarations, IMO.

I would suggest that you consider that the words of your so called great saints who worshipped a trinity in the form of lifeless man made material object and ate it for spiritual life may not be very rational.

Is it possible for you to take the words of Jesus as the definitive word on the subject superseding even such impressive thinkers and heroes of the church?



"but go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and their Father; my God and their God." John 17:20


By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as or claimed to be God or a part of any trinity..

Right. What choice does one like you have but to ignore the lives, words and manifestations of these saints? Just hang on to your own personal interpretation of one verse (John 17:20) as your proof the Catholic Church and the saints are all full of baloney.

No doubt God would choose to confuse all those who thought they were Christians for 1500 years until his prized pupil came along. And even then, Luther was full of it wasn’t he? Because he believed in purgatory and many other Catholic doctrines. No, now we have to wait for 21st century “enlightened” novices to tell us we are all wasting our time. Actually, I do not understand your objectives at all?

Well actually it isn't just one verse that has convinced me that the Catholic Church is full of it, it is the entire Law and the witness of all of the prophets, Moses and Jesus included, (not to mention logic) that has convinced me that what you worship and eat for spiritual life is not God but a lifeless material object made by human hands, an abomination that causes desolation.

All anyone has to do to discover what the truth is, is to peek inside any catholic church during mass and they will see and hear with their own eyes and ears the young and the old, men and women, families, friends and neighbors all kneeling in either terror or deranged adoration before a false Roman triune mangod in the form, of an edible cracker.

its not God who has confused people for the past few thousand years it has been dingbats like you who sets aside the laws of God and teaches others to do the same. Do you really expect me or anyone to believe that the bloody history of the Church and the despicable behavior of its shepherds is evidence that I am wrong?

And as far as Luther all I can say is that he took a step in the right direction; he just didn't step far enough.


Either you have been blinded since birth or your worship of the Eucharist is a deliberate desecration of the teachings of Jesus and demonstration of pure hatred for he who truly is God.

Which is it?

 

[pacer]

Earliest reference describes Christ as 'magician'

A bowl, dating to between the late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D., is engraved with what may be the world's first known reference to Christ. The engraving reads, "DIA CHRSTOU O GOISTAIS," which has been interpreted to mean either, "by Christ the magician" or, "the magician by Christ."

Discovery

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, cuz all the faithful Catholics the world has ever known are either deranged adorers or cowering retards.

You betcha. Run with that. You're smarter and wiser than them all....