DeVos to make getting away with campus rape easy again

[OldLady]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

Harsh punishments may not necessarily change a rapist's behavior, but it sure will change the behavior of his buddies who see what happened to him. No means no. Sex should be approached a bit more thoughtfully and cautiously with someone you have an established, trusted relationship with. Then these situations would be a whole lot less frequent.

With all due respect you need to also consider the other side of the coin. What if a student has been a serial rapist and all the student ever faced was expulsion? And then with a vengeance that student then goes out to rape some more? Off campus.

I've seen the other side of the coin, working with victims of DV, rape, and stalking. The LE response can be frustrating, to say the least. If it's difficult to prove a case of rape in a campus hearing, as you said, because it is all "he said she said," there is no way the LE could do anything about it. They are not the ONLY solution, which I believe is why this policy was added to Title IX to begin with. If it is not being performed correctly, that is on a campus to campus basis, I think. Not reason to throw away the entire concept.

 

[tinydancer]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

Harsh punishments may not necessarily change a rapist's behavior, but it sure will change the behavior of his buddies who see what happened to him. No means no. Sex should be approached a bit more thoughtfully and cautiously with someone you have an established, trusted relationship with. Then these situations would be a whole lot less frequent.

"no" also translates to "i was too drunk. I might have said yes, but he took advantage of me. Him being drunk too doesnt matter!"
Thank gawd this stupid crap will be over with.
I wonder how many innocent peoples lives this has ruined?

This one completely backs up your post in spades. This case was insane. The police wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole after investigation. BUT the University went after this poor young man with a vengeance.

BTW he won big in the courts. Here's the "victim's" own words.

“It got more intense until finally I shifted so that I was straddling him.” She told him she wasn’t interested in intercourse and he said he was fine with that.

Then, she wrote, “I started to move my hand down his chest and into his pants.” R.M. interrupted this to take a phone call from a female friend who was also at the house and trying to find her.

The call ended and then, R.M. wrote, “I got on my knees and started to give him a blow job.”

After a short time, “I removed my mouth but kept going with my hand and realized just how high I was.”

She wrote that she felt conflicted because she wanted to stop—she said she told him she was feeling uncomfortable and thought she needed to leave—but that she also felt bad about “working him up and then backing out.” (In Bonsu’s written account, he stated that R.M. said she needed to leave because she was concerned her friend might “barge in” on them.)

The encounter continued for a few more minutes, during which, she wrote, he cajoled her to stay—“playfully” grabbing her arm at one point, and drawing her in to kiss—then ended with an exchange of phone numbers. R.M. had not removed any clothing.

R.M. then went down to the kitchen to find her friend. As she explained in her statement, “[My friend] knows I was with Kojo. She probably told all the brothers in the room, and they’re gonna hate me when they find out”—she didn’t explain why. “I can never come back here.” Her friend started teasing her, asking how it had gone. R.M. was a resident adviser in her dormitory—someone tasked with counseling other students—

and at that moment, she wrote, “as my RA training kicked in, I realized I’d been sexually assaulted.”

It's freaking unreal that the University went after this young man for freaking sexual assault EVEN THOUGH the so called victim admitted it had been consensual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the end the school cleared him of rape/sexual misconduct but got the poor young man on a minor infraction of the rules they put in place during the investigation and then permanently banned him from campus.

The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy

 

[tinydancer]

With all due respect you need to also consider the other side of the coin. What if a student has been a serial rapist and all the student ever faced was expulsion? And then with a vengeance that student then goes out to rape some more? Off campus.

Then that's not the campus' problem.

Then it should be up to the Keystone Cops and their 3% conviction rate to catch him.

All the colleges are responsible for are protecting their students.

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

 

[CowboyTed]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

I know a woman who was raped by a fellow high school student. During the investigation it turned out that the criminal had raped another girl two years earlier at the school and the school knew about it. The criminal told the earlier victim, "I'm a rich white kid. I'll hurt you if you report it. " So the earlier victim reported it only to the school which did not call police. So the later victim suffered due to this egregious lack of ethics by the criminal and the school.

Anything that empowers criminal society like this is wrong morally.

Sorry to say but the idiots here who want rape covered up more are actually helping there daughters or nieces get raped... The figures are astonishing...

"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%, "
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

A 2014 report by the Department of Justice estimated that 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

These are the actual stats... Think about this if it was one of your family... And if you think it doesn't happen here, Red states generally have the highest Rape crimes...
Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN

 

[bripat9643]

I agree, but I also think it is too unbalanced at the moment. The accused seem to have very few rights and there is a very low bar for evidence. No one should have their lives destroyed either by rape or by a false accusation. I think something needs to be done to adjust that balance.

I agree. No one seems to be able to hear that, though.

What we hear is that you want to expel young men who haven't been convicted of anything. Are you denying that?

Yes, I deny it. I believe the college can, after an investigation and hearing, expel young men who they believe, more likely than not, raped a female student there. Preponderance of the evidence is good enough for our civil courts, family court, etc. 51% is good enough to get our puke of a President elected. There is nothing wrong with a preponderance of the evidence "verdict." The young man has NOT been convicted of anything. He is not on the national sex offender registry.

You deny it, and the your promptly admit exactly what I accused you of. The standard of proof used in civil cases isn't appropriate for criminal offenses.

They aren't convicted of a crime.

They are convicted by the university and sentenced.

 

[Kosh]

This thread proves that the far left could care less about women and their rights, they want the school to be able to keep this quiet and in house. And as we all know many schools are far left. This was not different than the Occupy people wanting to cover up the rapes that happened as they also wanted to handle it inhouse, not get the police involved.

Another thread proving the far left still want to suppress women and keep them in line.

 

[bripat9643]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

I know a woman who was raped by a fellow high school student. During the investigation it turned out that the criminal had raped another girl two years earlier at the school and the school knew about it. The criminal told the earlier victim, "I'm a rich white kid. I'll hurt you if you report it. " So the earlier victim reported it only to the school which did not call police. So the later victim suffered due to this egregious lack of ethics by the criminal and the school.

Anything that empowers criminal society like this is wrong morally.

Sorry to say but the idiots here who want rape covered up more are actually helping there daughters or nieces get raped... The figures are astonishing...

"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%, "
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

A 2014 report by the Department of Justice estimated that 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

View attachment 148816

These are the actual stats... Think about this if it was one of your family... And if you think it doesn't happen here, Red states generally have the highest Rape crimes...
Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN

I love the language leftist cockroaches use. Declining to prosecute someone without sufficient evidence is now called "covering up" a crime. George Orwell is rolling over in his grave.

 

[tinydancer]

For all of those who believe that just an accusation with no evidence SHOULD result in punishment for the accused...bet you'll love how this poor young man was punished.

Rah! Rah for the accuser. Rah rah for the accuser because OMG they can do no wrong.

The poor son of a ***** LOOKED like someone the accuser had been raped by months before and a quizzillion miles away. Don't you just love your Kangaroo courts.

You people are nuts to think that someone should be punished based on an accusation.

." In a 2015 article for the Harvard Law Review, Janet Halley, a Harvard law professor, describes a case at an Oregon college in which a male student was investigated and told to stay away from a female student, resulting in the loss of his campus job and a move from his dorm.

He didn’t know why he was being investigated, but it turned out he resembled a man who had raped the female student “months before and thousands of miles away.”

He was found “innocent of any sexual misconduct,” but the no-contact order was not lifted."

The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy

 

[JoeB131]

In the end the school cleared him of rape/sexual misconduct but got the poor young man on a minor infraction of the rules they put in place during the investigation and then permanently banned him from campus.

It was hardly a minor infraction. He outed the woman's name in a public forum.

Before he did that, the university was willing to work with him and let him attend classes, just not events where he might assault someone else.

 

[bripat9643]

You deny it, and the your promptly admit exactly what I accused you of. The standard of proof used in civil cases isn't appropriate for criminal offenses.

You are absolutely right, it isn't.

So someone could be acquitted of a crime but still found liable civilly.

College enrollment is a civil matter, not a criminal one. It's not a matter between the state and the individual, it's a matter between an organization and the individual.

State universities are the state, dumbass. Rape is also a crime, not a "civil matter."

 

[OldLady]

Thank gawd. What a bunch of bedwetting horseshit.

Luv your Christmas picture.
We know where you stand on ***** grabbing and sex as a contact sport.
Preventing rape on campus is "bedwetting horseshit?"

 

[JoeB131]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

 

[TNHarley]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

Harsh punishments may not necessarily change a rapist's behavior, but it sure will change the behavior of his buddies who see what happened to him. No means no. Sex should be approached a bit more thoughtfully and cautiously with someone you have an established, trusted relationship with. Then these situations would be a whole lot less frequent.

With all due respect you need to also consider the other side of the coin. What if a student has been a serial rapist and all the student ever faced was expulsion? And then with a vengeance that student then goes out to rape some more? Off campus.

I've seen the other side of the coin, working with victims of DV, rape, and stalking. The LE response can be frustrating, to say the least. If it's difficult to prove a case of rape in a campus hearing, as you said, because it is all "he said she said," there is no way the LE could do anything about it. They are not the ONLY solution, which I believe is why this policy was added to Title IX to begin with. If it is not being performed correctly, that is on a campus to campus basis, I think. Not reason to throw away the entire concept.

Were you born in germany in the 30s? JW

 

[TNHarley]

Thank gawd. What a bunch of bedwetting horseshit.

Luv your Christmas picture.
We know where you stand on ***** grabbing and sex as a contact sport.
Preventing rape on campus is "bedwetting horseshit?"

Preventing rape?

 

[TNHarley]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

Your entire political philosophy is built off of that you retarded dumbfuck.

 

[bripat9643]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

I know a woman who was raped by a fellow high school student. During the investigation it turned out that the criminal had raped another girl two years earlier at the school and the school knew about it. The criminal told the earlier victim, "I'm a rich white kid. I'll hurt you if you report it. " So the earlier victim reported it only to the school which did not call police. So the later victim suffered due to this egregious lack of ethics by the criminal and the school.

Anything that empowers criminal society like this is wrong morally.

Sorry to say but the idiots here who want rape covered up more are actually helping there daughters or nieces get raped... The figures are astonishing...

"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%, "
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

A 2014 report by the Department of Justice estimated that 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

View attachment 148816

These are the actual stats... Think about this if it was one of your family... And if you think it doesn't happen here, Red states generally have the highest Rape crimes...
Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN

It looks to me, based on your statistics, that 98% of accusations are false.

 

[TNHarley]

IDK how some of you morons havent accidently killed yourselves yet.

 

[bripat9643]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

Is that what you say to queers whining about same-sex marriage or buying a wedding cake?

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

 

[tinydancer]

In the end the school cleared him of rape/sexual misconduct but got the poor young man on a minor infraction of the rules they put in place during the investigation and then permanently banned him from campus.

It was hardly a minor infraction. He outed the woman's name in a public forum.

Before he did that, the university was willing to work with him and let him attend classes, just not events where he might assault someone else.

Give me a break. This young man was punished for an accusation that was proved false. AND he won big against the University because of their draconian measures. And if I were him I would currently launch a civil lawsuit and drag her name thru every court and in every publication possible.

On January 12, 2015, Bonsu got an email from a school administrator informing him that a “very serious” allegation had been lodged against him and that until a hearing was held, he was subject to “interim restrictions”:

He could not contact R.M., he could visit no dormitories other than his own, he was limited to eating at a single dining hall, and he was forbidden from entering the student union.

Many remedies that have been pushed on campus are unjust to men, and ultimately undermine the legitimacy of the fight against sexual violence.

The restrictions meant that Bonsu could no longer play with his jazz ensemble at a weekly Sunday brunch.

Nor could he attend the meetings of the other organizations he’d joined.

He was warned not to talk about the allegation, so he couldn’t explain to his friends why he was suddenly withdrawing from his activities.

R.M. soon complained to the school that Bonsu had violated his no-contact order by trying to friend her on Facebook. Bonsu vehemently denied the allegation to administrators.

HERE'S THE BIGGIE. THE ***** LIED AGAIN.

He offered the university full access to his Facebook account and phone records. According to the suit, the university declined the offer. He later sent the records anyway. But in a February 4 letter, Bonsu was told that because of the later allegation, a new set of interim restrictions was being put in place. Effective immediately, Bonsu was banned from all university housing and was allowed on campus only to attend classes.

His mother and an uncle drove up from Maryland to help him appeal his restrictions, but were largely unsuccessful.

He reached out to a student group that helps minority and other underrepresented college students, explaining in an email what had happened with R.M., protesting his innocence, and describing his treatment as discriminatory and unlawful.

The student who received the email forwarded it to the group’s listserv, adding a note about spreading the news in order to organize a rally on Bonsu’s behalf. This email got back to campus authorities, the lawsuit says, and because Bonsu had used R.M.’s name, he received a new interim restriction: a total ban from campus."

The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy

 

[iceberg]

For all of those who believe that just an accusation with no evidence SHOULD result in punishment for the accused...bet you'll love how this poor young man was punished.

Rah! Rah for the accuser. Rah rah for the accuser because OMG they can do no wrong.

The poor son of a ***** LOOKED like someone the accuser had been raped by months before and a quizzillion miles away. Don't you just love your Kangaroo courts.

You people are nuts to think that someone should be punished based on an accusation.

." In a 2015 article for the Harvard Law Review, Janet Halley, a Harvard law professor, describes a case at an Oregon college in which a male student was investigated and told to stay away from a female student, resulting in the loss of his campus job and a move from his dorm.

He didn’t know why he was being investigated, but it turned out he resembled a man who had raped the female student “months before and thousands of miles away.”

He was found “innocent of any sexual misconduct,” but the no-contact order was not lifted."

The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy

this isn't to belittle rape or the effect it has on women, to be sure.

this is to say it's 100% asinine to let an accusation be enough.