DeVos to make getting away with campus rape easy again

[tinydancer]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

I know a woman who was raped by a fellow high school student. During the investigation it turned out that the criminal had raped another girl two years earlier at the school and the school knew about it. The criminal told the earlier victim, "I'm a rich white kid. I'll hurt you if you report it. " So the earlier victim reported it only to the school which did not call police. So the later victim suffered due to this egregious lack of ethics by the criminal and the school.

Anything that empowers criminal society like this is wrong morally.

Sorry to say but the idiots here who want rape covered up more are actually helping there daughters or nieces get raped... The figures are astonishing...

"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%, "
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

A 2014 report by the Department of Justice estimated that 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

View attachment 148816

These are the actual stats... Think about this if it was one of your family... And if you think it doesn't happen here, Red states generally have the highest Rape crimes...
Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN

The Universities do not require evidence. Only an accusation. And a life ruined by an accusation. Think about this if it was one of your family members.

 

[tinydancer]

For all of those who believe that just an accusation with no evidence SHOULD result in punishment for the accused...bet you'll love how this poor young man was punished.

Rah! Rah for the accuser. Rah rah for the accuser because OMG they can do no wrong.

The poor son of a bitch LOOKED like someone the accuser had been raped by months before and a quizzillion miles away. Don't you just love your Kangaroo courts.

You people are nuts to think that someone should be punished based on an accusation.

." In a 2015 article for the Harvard Law Review, Janet Halley, a Harvard law professor, describes a case at an Oregon college in which a male student was investigated and told to stay away from a female student, resulting in the loss of his campus job and a move from his dorm.

He didn’t know why he was being investigated, but it turned out he resembled a man who had raped the female student “months before and thousands of miles away.”

He was found “innocent of any sexual misconduct,” but the no-contact order was not lifted."

The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy

this isn't to belittle rape or the effect it has on women, to be sure.

this is to say it's 100% asinine to let an accusation be enough.

Bingo!

 

[tinydancer]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

It has been for many accused. THAT's why they are really beginning to win in the courts against the Universities over reach.

 

[tinydancer]

BTW while we are at this for all of you that believe an accusation is enough to warrant all hell breaking loose in the accused life and others around the accused let me smack you up the head with this *cough* so called accusation.

The young woman who made the accusation should be in jail for the freaking hell she caused.

 

[OldLady]

I agree. No one seems to be able to hear that, though.

What we hear is that you want to expel young men who haven't been convicted of anything. Are you denying that?

Yes, I deny it. I believe the college can, after an investigation and hearing, expel young men who they believe, more likely than not, raped a female student there. Preponderance of the evidence is good enough for our civil courts, family court, etc. 51% is good enough to get our puke of a President elected. There is nothing wrong with a preponderance of the evidence "verdict." The young man has NOT been convicted of anything. He is not on the national sex offender registry.

You deny it, and the your promptly admit exactly what I accused you of. The standard of proof used in civil cases isn't appropriate for criminal offenses.

They aren't convicted of a crime.

They are convicted by the university and sentenced.

Keep talking like a moron.

 

[OldLady]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

It has been for many accused. THAT's why they are really beginning to win in the courts against the Universities over reach.

In cases where a particular college has screwed it up, it is appropriate to get redress in the courts. If a college is being unfair to the accused, they need to be called on it and their procedures need to be fixed. Throwing out the policy because of a few campuses doing it wrong is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[bripat9643]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

It has been for many accused. THAT's why they are really beginning to win in the courts against the Universities over reach.

In cases where a particular college has screwed it up, it is appropriate to get redress in the courts. If a college is being unfair to the accused, they need to be called on it and their procedures need to be fixed. Throwing out the policy because of a few campuses doing it wrong is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

They should be allowed to do anything to the accused other than let the legal process take its course. Any "procedure" that involves the university imposing penalties on people who haven't been convicted is a violation of their rights.

You keep denying that you support that, and then you go and support it.

You're a special kind of dingbat.

 

[CowboyTed]

This thread proves that the far left could care less about women and their rights, they want the school to be able to keep this quiet and in house. And as we all know many schools are far left. This was not different than the Occupy people wanting to cover up the rapes that happened as they also wanted to handle it inhouse, not get the police involved.

Another thread proving the far left still want to suppress women and keep them in line.

Kosh,

I think you have to have a chat to yourself or someone professional... This is not the first time this week you have embarrassed yourself with your ignorance...

 

[CowboyTed]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

I know a woman who was raped by a fellow high school student. During the investigation it turned out that the criminal had raped another girl two years earlier at the school and the school knew about it. The criminal told the earlier victim, "I'm a rich white kid. I'll hurt you if you report it. " So the earlier victim reported it only to the school which did not call police. So the later victim suffered due to this egregious lack of ethics by the criminal and the school.

Anything that empowers criminal society like this is wrong morally.

Sorry to say but the idiots here who want rape covered up more are actually helping there daughters or nieces get raped... The figures are astonishing...

"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%, "
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

A 2014 report by the Department of Justice estimated that 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

View attachment 148816

These are the actual stats... Think about this if it was one of your family... And if you think it doesn't happen here, Red states generally have the highest Rape crimes...
Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN

It looks to me, based on your statistics, that 98% of accusations are false.

No, 98% didn't get convictions... Only 2% were proven to be false...

Why are you protecting Rapists.. It is a very under reported crime..

 

[bripat9643]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

I know a woman who was raped by a fellow high school student. During the investigation it turned out that the criminal had raped another girl two years earlier at the school and the school knew about it. The criminal told the earlier victim, "I'm a rich white kid. I'll hurt you if you report it. " So the earlier victim reported it only to the school which did not call police. So the later victim suffered due to this egregious lack of ethics by the criminal and the school.

Anything that empowers criminal society like this is wrong morally.

Sorry to say but the idiots here who want rape covered up more are actually helping there daughters or nieces get raped... The figures are astonishing...

"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%, "
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

A 2014 report by the Department of Justice estimated that 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

View attachment 148816

These are the actual stats... Think about this if it was one of your family... And if you think it doesn't happen here, Red states generally have the highest Rape crimes...
Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN

It looks to me, based on your statistics, that 98% of accusations are false.

No, 98% didn't get convictions... Only 2% were proven to be false...

Why are you protecting Rapists.. It is a very under reported crime..

If they aren't convicted, then how do you know the accusations are not false? You don't. As far as we know, they were all false accusations.

Once again, snowflakes are manipulating the statistics to make a case they don't support.

 

[tinydancer]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

It has been for many accused. THAT's why they are really beginning to win in the courts against the Universities over reach.

In cases where a particular college has screwed it up, it is appropriate to get redress in the courts. If a college is being unfair to the accused, they need to be called on it and their procedures need to be fixed. Throwing out the policy because of a few campuses doing it wrong is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Thank heaven's you are in the minority on this issue. It's not a matter "of just a few campuses". The problem is the draconian policy itself. Check out the link in the article about the gay young man who got expelled from Brandeis. In part for waking up his partner with a kiss.

https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/brandeis-decision.pdf

"Justice for all is not a matter of statistics.

As DeVos put it: "Any school that refuses to take seriously a student who reports sexual misconduct is one that discriminates. And any school that uses a system biased toward finding a student responsible for sexual misconduct also commits discrimination."


DeVos is also correct when she faults "broad and ambiguous definitions of assault," such as failure to obtain sufficiently clear consent to a specific act during a mutually desired encounter, or waking up your partner with a kiss (an offense that, in part, got a gay man expelled from Brandeis University).

And she is correct that neither the accused nor victims are well-served by a university justice system in which people with no forensic or legal training play cop, prosecutor and judge."

Betsy DeVos is right about campus sexual assault (opinion) - CNN

 

[tinydancer]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

I know a woman who was raped by a fellow high school student. During the investigation it turned out that the criminal had raped another girl two years earlier at the school and the school knew about it. The criminal told the earlier victim, "I'm a rich white kid. I'll hurt you if you report it. " So the earlier victim reported it only to the school which did not call police. So the later victim suffered due to this egregious lack of ethics by the criminal and the school.

Anything that empowers criminal society like this is wrong morally.

Sorry to say but the idiots here who want rape covered up more are actually helping there daughters or nieces get raped... The figures are astonishing...

"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20%, "
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

A 2014 report by the Department of Justice estimated that 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

View attachment 148816

These are the actual stats... Think about this if it was one of your family... And if you think it doesn't happen here, Red states generally have the highest Rape crimes...
Change the List: States where rape is most common - CNN

It looks to me, based on your statistics, that 98% of accusations are false.

No, 98% didn't get convictions... Only 2% were proven to be false...

Why are you protecting Rapists.. It is a very under reported crime..

No one is protecting rapists. That's ridiculous.

 

[OldLady]

In kangaroo courts. Where in many cases one person is the investigator, judge and jury. Piss off with that shit.

Boo, hoo. Life is so unfair.

It has been for many accused. THAT's why they are really beginning to win in the courts against the Universities over reach.

In cases where a particular college has screwed it up, it is appropriate to get redress in the courts. If a college is being unfair to the accused, they need to be called on it and their procedures need to be fixed. Throwing out the policy because of a few campuses doing it wrong is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Thank heaven's you are in the minority on this issue. It's not a matter "of just a few campuses". The problem is the draconian policy itself. Check out the link in the article about the gay young man who got expelled from Brandeis. In part for waking up his partner with a kiss.

https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/brandeis-decision.pdf

"Justice for all is not a matter of statistics.

As DeVos put it: "Any school that refuses to take seriously a student who reports sexual misconduct is one that discriminates. And any school that uses a system biased toward finding a student responsible for sexual misconduct also commits discrimination."


DeVos is also correct when she faults "broad and ambiguous definitions of assault," such as failure to obtain sufficiently clear consent to a specific act during a mutually desired encounter, or waking up your partner with a kiss (an offense that, in part, got a gay man expelled from Brandeis University).

And she is correct that neither the accused nor victims are well-served by a university justice system in which people with no forensic or legal training play cop, prosecutor and judge."

Betsy DeVos is right about campus sexual assault (opinion) - CNN

Maybe I'm in the minority. I don't disagree with some of your points, but I think the other side has been made pretty clearly as well. There should be a way to satisfy BOTH of the concerns DeVos is making--not forgetting the victims.

It doesn't really matter what I think, since she has the authority to change the policies in whatever way she likes. It sounds as if she won't be throwing the whole policy out--she is studying in order to make some changes. So those here who are hoping for an entire reversal of the policy will probably be disappointed. If the procedures can be improved to protect EVERYONE, I'm all for it.
I won't forget the female students who HAVE been forced against their will and can't prove it and the guys who did it who are getting away with it.

 

[JoeB131]

Your entire political philosophy is built off of that you retarded dumbfuck.

No, my political philosophy is based on pragmatism. I don't advocate wealth equality because it's "Fair". I advocate it because it's good economics.

 

[JoeB131]

Give me a break. This young man was punished for an accusation that was proved false. AND he won big against the University because of their draconian measures. And if I were him I would currently launch a civil lawsuit and drag her name thru every court and in every publication possible.

Where does it say in the article he 'won' anything. He dropped out and went to another university where hopefully he learned to behave himself.

 

[JoeB131]

The Universities do not require evidence. Only an accusation. And a life ruined by an accusation. Think about this if it was one of your family members.

How are there lives "ruined". They can't go to that university. They go to another university.

They should be allowed to do anything to the accused other than let the legal process take its course. Any "procedure" that involves the university imposing penalties on people who haven't been convicted is a violation of their rights.

There's no right to attend a university, and people are expelled for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with legal issues.

 

[JoeB131]

It has been for many accused. THAT's why they are really beginning to win in the courts against the Universities over reach.

Not really, but you keep telling yourself that.

The universities would lose mucher bigger in court if they let the rapists run free range.

 

[bripat9643]

The Universities do not require evidence. Only an accusation. And a life ruined by an accusation. Think about this if it was one of your family members.

How are there lives "ruined". They can't go to that university. They go to another university.

They should be allowed to do anything to the accused other than let the legal process take its course. Any "procedure" that involves the university imposing penalties on people who haven't been convicted is a violation of their rights.

There's no right to attend a university, and people are expelled for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with legal issues.

The university has no authority to punish you because of mere accusations.

 

[TNHarley]

Give me a break. This young man was punished for an accusation that was proved false. AND he won big against the University because of their draconian measures. And if I were him I would currently launch a civil lawsuit and drag her name thru every court and in every publication possible.

Where does it say in the article he 'won' anything. He dropped out and went to another university where hopefully he learned to behave himself.

What behavior did he need to change? Why no mention of the girl? Sounds disingenuous.

 

[JoeB131]

The university has no authority to punish you because of mere accusations.

sure they do. It's their university.